The Richman and Lazarus a parable
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What on Earth are you talking about? Did you even read my post? I said I drank the bleach ACCIDENTALLY. I wasn't looking for a sign or testing the Lord.
Also, is there ANY part of Scripture you don't allegorize? Did Jesus rise from the dead, or was that an allegory?
Asserting that everything is a metaphor or allegory IS UNBELIEF!
As of yet not person has shown me a verse showing that the unsaved will have eternal life, everybody likes to use this parable and look at the rich man suffering and somehow having a conscience. But even in this it says nothing of the sort of the rich man having eternal life. Have you ever thought why the phrase must be born again, dead in sins...etc what does that all mean.
Eternal life is granted only to the saved.
Eternal existence is not the same as eternal life, and the unsaved will be in eternal torment (conscious existence) in the Lake of Fire. The devil and his angels will also have an eternal existence in torment, not eternal life. Study Revelation 14, 20, 21 and other Scriptures.
Is the fire a literal fire then and then people are literal as in physical and the fire also? What about the phrase 2nd death.
Like post #81, what you said above makes no sense. I don't know what posts you've been reading or who you've been listening to, but you're not going to find any scripture stating that the unsaved will have eternal life. And I'm pretty sure that Nehemiah does not believe that the unsaved will have eternal life. The fact is that, unless a person believes in Christ, they remain in their sins and the wrath of God rests on them. If they die in that state, then they will be held accountable for their own sins, instead of Christ.
Um.... the rich man does have a conscious and is conscious, as he is having a conversation with Abraham, he can see Lazarus at Abraham's side, he can feel pain because he told Abraham that he was in torment in the flame. Therefore, why would you conclude that the rich man is not suffering as he said and that he is not conscious?
The fire is literal and defined as everlasting, eternal, forever and ever. These are the words describing the fire and the people who will be in it. The fact that there is first death and a second, should demonstrate that death is a state of conscious existence. For the wicked, the first death is the death of the body and the punishment of the spirit in Sheol/Hades. At the second death, the unredeemed are resurrected where at the great white throne they will experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies, i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.
After studying all of the related scriptures, the only correct conclusion that one can arrive at, is that both life and death are states of never-ending existence, which is based on the individuals state of being with God.
Life = Never-ending existence in the joy of the Lord and the kingdom of God
Death = Never-ending existence in separation from God in torment in the lake of fire
Death is not non-existence, nor annihilation.
Some suggest that Christ never spoke about Lazarus and the rich man. There is a claim that biblical copiers (those whose job was to hand write the 66 Books into multiple copies)(would have been 2nd and 3rd century Catholic Monks) inserted the story of Lazarus and the rich man since there was a message where a priest had made the example. Since the Catholics believe in a burning hell, legend states a certain biblical writer inserted the story. I think it's clear Christ never spoke of it by understanding throughout the entire 4 Gospels, most of what Christ did say we can find TWICE (once in Matthew and once in Luke etc for example). And the story of Lazarus and the rich man is only found in one Book. And the parables before and after this story can be found in other Gospels with no mention of this so-called parable.
I would therefore conclude this parable did not come from the mouth of Christ, but from the Catholic tradition being preached concerning a BURNING HELL!!
Regarding the above, the event of the rich man and Lazarus is not the only place in scripture that teaches on eternal torment in flame. Therefore according to your claim regarding the rich man and Lazarus, you would also have to deem all of the other scriptures as coming from Catholic tradition. Now your problem is growing, because you would have to dissect the word of God everywhere punishment in Hades and the lake of fire are mentioned. And who is going to do the dissecting, you or others?
Also, just because the rich man and Lazarus is found only one time in the book of Luke, this does not constitute it as not being valid. For example, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is how God is going to carry out His wrath, for the most part are only mentioned once in the book of Revelation. Should we then deem them as not being valid because they are only mentioned there?
The above does not support your claim. In fact, it supports the idea that the rich man and Lazarus as not being a parable. Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal such the parable of the wheat and weeds, e.g. Sower = Son of man, Field = the world, Good Seed = Sons of the kingdom, Weeds = sons of the evil one, Harvest = end of the age, Harvesters = the angels, etc. In comparison, the rich man and Lazarus uses the real names of Abraham, Moses, Lazarus and the real location and name of Hades.
For the most part people interpret the rich man and Lazarus as a parable because they either believe in soul-sleep or annihilation, neither of which are Biblical teachings.
"Conscious Existence" is just another word to say life and or to have life and yet this goes contrary to what you believe. Because if we take these words conscious and existence and look up there individual meanings there is no doubt to what they mean.
1Cor. 8:4 gives us a great definition of what the word existence means.
Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one."
I can whole heartily say that the richman did not feel pain, did not see Abraham and did not see Lazarus because he was dead not only physically but also spiritually.
Ps. 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Abraham was dead he will rise to new spirit life on the last day. The moment his spirit left his body from that time on the former things of this world will never come to mind.
Communing with the dead is called necromancy.
Drinking bleach is not the same as drinking poison. as if it was evidence you have the Holy Spirit. If you would not of survived it would not be evidence you did not have the Holy Spirit. It is not a literal test.
There are no such thing as a sign gift. We walk by faith, the unseen eternal. And not after the things seen, the temporal
Drinking poison is used in parables throughout the scripture to represent a false gospel coming from false apostles. Those who obey the word of God and do not go above that which is written they will not be effected by the false doctrines by believing the lie.
Jesus' body did not see corruption. When finished with the demonstration he informed us that although some did know him after the outward flesh, that then when he disappeared out of sight we know him that way never again forever more.
God is not a man as us. God has no beginning of days or end of Spirit life
The parable acts as a warning not to go beyond that which is written . In that way the elect that do not go above that which is written would be impossible to deceive.
Matthew 24:24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Poison of serpents is used as a metaphor to represent false doctrines.
Deuteronomy 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
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Deuteronomy 32:24They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
Deuteronomy 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
Job 6:4For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
Job 20:16He shall suck the poison of asps: the viper's tongue shall slay him.
Psalm 58:4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
Psalm 140:3They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.
Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Mankind drank the poison of false doctrine and died.
Genesis 3 King James Version (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
It jives but the problem is that many do not understand unless it says directly being a parable or otherwise. For example in Jn. 7:38 it says out of your belly will flow living waters. Now one would have to beckon the question what does that have to do with anything or let’s look at 1Pt. 4:6 it says we are to preach to the dead..and where are the dead ? In the graveyards so again what does this have to do with anything...etc
You continue to persist in this fantasy in spite of everything.
Just goes to show that once someone latches on to a false idea, he or she simply refuses to give it up, no matter what.
How about as many times as he repeats it? All of the references of poison indicate false doctrine as that which kills . Unlike true doctrines of God..... the gospel, they bring new life.
Yes not if you refuse to do the work required to understand the parables as searching for silver or gold . I am simply sharing how I believe we can hear which is different from one another because that seems to show us how our faithful Creator us makes us different from one
This is so that we do not think of the things seen like the apostles above that which reveals the unseen things of God as matters of faith . Not going above that which is written is our goal I would beleive
1 Corinthians 4:5-7 King James Version (KJV)Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that "which is written", that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
We do not wrestle against flesh and blood.as the things seen
1 Corinthians 4:5-7.... can be a way of humbling oneself with a discreet heart seeking the approval of Him not seen
The word poison is used that way right from the beginning . When the serpent spread his lies he said:. Did God really say you will not die? Adam and Eve took it in...... death occurred.
It is not a test to see if whose persons blood stream can take in more poison than another and if one does survive it proves they are gods to be worshipped.
And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita.And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold. And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand.And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, omthey changed their minds, and said that he was a god.Acts 28:
Because they refused to mix faith (believe the word of God) their attempt to get the spiritual meaning of the gospel in the hidden mana failed both times.
The antidote is clearly the word of God seen through many metaphors as synonyms used to represent the doctrines of God. like manna (what is it?) or bread, corn, new wine, wheat etc.
They can be seen by looking at other parables that hide the good news mysteries from . those who have no faith
Jesus does not say it is not a parable, either. Accepting the story of Lazarus and the rich man as a parable does not amount to lack of belief, either
So nobody ever lost money, and rejoiced when the money was found? And
no shepherd ever leaves the majority of safe sheep to find the one lost?
Now I am reminded of why I stopped posting in June...
