My pretense isn’t false because I was agreeing with something someone else said. Do you agree that parable can use the names of real people?
"The rich man And Lazarus..."
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My pretense isn’t false because I was agreeing with something someone else said. Do you agree that parable can use the names of real people?
Why did you deliberately leave out EVERYTHING Abraham said, according to Jesus?
I only like to focus on bits and pieces at a time so we can post more comments and have a better discussion. If I write a 10,000 character reply, meticulously dissecting the rich man and Lazarus parable (I’m capable of that), few, if any, would read it anyway and it’d be a bit like information overload.
So what do you think about what Abraham said and what God requires?
Precisely! And yet for some reason certain people are implying exactly that.
A Parable? Perhaps. Probably even yes.
Jesus quoting someone? No.
Come on Runner, you’re one of the most sound-minded individuals on CC. How can you not see something so blatantly obvious?
Abraham said what God requires. That is of course, that Abraham actually said it, which would mean the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is not merely a parable, but an actual, historical event. I rest my case.
.
If we allow God to be untruthful-- in any degree at all --then we will have
grounds to question the acceptance of everything He and Jesus say.
But in the Bible there is no middle ground between truth and untruth, nor
between fools and wise, nor between honesty and dishonesty, nor between
good and evil. Not does the Bible condone 2+2=5.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck; it's a duck.
In other words: If something has all the characteristics, then it's probably
the thing it resembles, regardless of how it is presented or what it is called.
Aesop's tales avoid the lie tag by calling themselves fables; but in reality,
anything untrue is a lie because there is no middle ground between fact
and fiction, nor between fantasy and reality, viz: a fresh coat of new paint
on a broken down jalopy does very little to conceal the reality that it's an
old car.
_
If we allow God to be untruthful-- in any degree at all --then we will have
grounds to question the acceptance of everything He and Jesus say.
But in the Bible there is no middle ground between truth and untruth, nor
between fools and wise, nor between honesty and dishonesty, nor between
good and evil. Not does the Bible condone 2+2=5.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck; it's a duck.
In other words: If something has all the characteristics, then it's probably
the thing it resembles, regardless of how it is presented or what it is called.
Aesop's tales avoid the lie tag by calling themselves fables; but in reality,
anything untrue is a lie because there is no middle ground between fact
and fiction, nor between fantasy and reality, viz: a fresh coat of new paint
on a broken down jalopy does very little to conceal the reality that it's an
old car.
_
And Abraham was also named specifically. This is a historical narrative and only Christ would know the facts and the details.
What in the world are you on about?
par·a·ble
[ˈperəb(ə)l]
NOUN
- a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels:
[ par-uh-buhl ]SHOW IPA
See synonyms for: parable / parables on Thesaurus.com
noun
a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
par·a·ble | \ ˈper-ə-bəl , ˈpa-rə- \
Definition of parable
: a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle
= the Biblical parable of the Good Samaritan
A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, that illustrates one or more
instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals,
plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have
human characters. A parable is a type of metaphorical analogy.
Abraham said what God requires. That is of course, that Abraham actually said it, which would mean the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is not merely a parable, but an actual, historical event. I rest my case.
It’s not historical because it’s a parable. I’m just being consistent with Jesus’ stated teaching style of using parables.
The rich man wasn’t named, but he was quoted and it’s literal to you? Yet other parables where unnamed people are quoted it’s not literal to you?
In the same chapter is the parable of the shrewd manager. Is the below quote a historical event by a real rich man? Why or why not?
Like 16:1,2
1Jesus also said to His disciples, “There was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasting his possessions. 2So he called him in to ask, ‘What is this I hear about you? Turn in an account of your management, for you cannot be manager any longer.’
Why do you require this to not be a parable? There must be some doctrine you’re protecting that if the rich man and Lazarus story is a parable then the whole knot of twisted scripture unravels?
So you believe Lazarus go to heaven, rich man to hell and not cease to exist, am I correct?What in the world are you on about?
par·a·ble
[ˈperəb(ə)l]
NOUN
parable
- a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels:
[ par-uh-buhl ]SHOW IPA
See synonyms for: parable / parables on Thesaurus.com
noun
a short allegorical story designed to illustrate or teach some truth, religious principle, or moral lesson.
par·a·ble | \ ˈper-ə-bəl , ˈpa-rə- \
Definition of parable
: a usually short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle
= the Biblical parable of the Good Samaritan
A parable is a succinct, didactic story, in prose or verse, that illustrates one or more
instructive lessons or principles. It differs from a fable in that fables employ animals,
plants, inanimate objects, or forces of nature as characters, whereas parables have
human characters. A parable is a type of metaphorical analogy.
The Rich Man went to hell because he did not have the Love of God (a metaphor for the Spirit of God) in his heart, as St. John the Apostle says below. If we wish the Love of God to be in our hearts, we must receive Jesus as our Savior, and commit our love our neighbor as ourselves.
"If someone who has worldly means sees a brother in need and refuses him compassion, how can the love of God remain in him?" (1 Jn 3:17)
God Bless.
"If someone who has worldly means sees a brother in need and refuses him compassion, how can the love of God remain in him?" (1 Jn 3:17)
God Bless.
Also, the Rich Man's Sin was not being RICH, but it was being GREEDY, and having no COMPASSION.
Luk 16:
The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.* 19“There was a rich man* who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. 20And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,i 21who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. 22When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, 23and from the netherworld,* where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
If the Rich Man had only taken Jesus Christ's advice in the Gospel, and St. Paul's, or at least Jewish Tobias' with whom he would have been familiar, none of that would have happened.
Mat 6:
"Treasure in Heaven. 19* “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal.j 20But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be.k
1 Tim 6:
Right Use of Wealth.* 17Tell the rich in the present age not to be proud and not to rely on so uncertain a thing as wealth but rather on God, who richly provides us with all things for our enjoyment.n 18Tell them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous, ready to share, 19thus accumulating as treasure a good foundation for the future, so as to win the life that is true life.o
Tob 4:
7“Give alms from your possessions. Do not turn your face away from any of the poor, so that God’s face will not be turned away from you.c 8Give in proportion to what you own. If you have great wealth, give alms out of your abundance; if you have but little, do not be afraid to give alms even of that little. 9You will be storing up a goodly treasure for yourself against the day of adversity.d 10For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps one from entering into Darkness. 11Almsgiving is a worthy offering in the sight of the Most High for all who practice it.e ...
16i “Give to the hungry some of your food, and to the naked some of your clothing. Whatever you have left over, give away as alms; and do not let your eye begrudge the alms that you give."
God Bless.
Luk 16:
The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.* 19“There was a rich man* who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. 20And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,i 21who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. 22When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, 23and from the netherworld,* where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
If the Rich Man had only taken Jesus Christ's advice in the Gospel, and St. Paul's, or at least Jewish Tobias' with whom he would have been familiar, none of that would have happened.
Mat 6:
"Treasure in Heaven. 19* “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal.j 20But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be.k
1 Tim 6:
Right Use of Wealth.* 17Tell the rich in the present age not to be proud and not to rely on so uncertain a thing as wealth but rather on God, who richly provides us with all things for our enjoyment.n 18Tell them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous, ready to share, 19thus accumulating as treasure a good foundation for the future, so as to win the life that is true life.o
Tob 4:
7“Give alms from your possessions. Do not turn your face away from any of the poor, so that God’s face will not be turned away from you.c 8Give in proportion to what you own. If you have great wealth, give alms out of your abundance; if you have but little, do not be afraid to give alms even of that little. 9You will be storing up a goodly treasure for yourself against the day of adversity.d 10For almsgiving delivers from death and keeps one from entering into Darkness. 11Almsgiving is a worthy offering in the sight of the Most High for all who practice it.e ...
16i “Give to the hungry some of your food, and to the naked some of your clothing. Whatever you have left over, give away as alms; and do not let your eye begrudge the alms that you give."
God Bless.
P
persistent
Guest
That’s because in that particular case Jesus wasn’t giving a sermon, but was approached by someone who was questioning Him about the Law.
Otherwise, when Jesus had something prepared to teach people in His various sermons He used parables.
Mark 12:28-34
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
32“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.
Probably lol. To me it’s just a discussion though. On all things I’m open to changing my beliefs depending on the proof from the Bible. I don’t see proof the rich man and Lazarus story isn’t a parable.
If it’s an historical event and I’m just not seeing it that honestly would give me pause and shake my faith a bit. Fortunately I don’t have to worry about that.
I’m sticking with parable because that makes most sense to me.
P
persistent
Guest
Before I got on this site I was looking into these verses and thought for one thing that the teacher of the law here was possibly a little audacious by saying to Jesus, "Well said, teacher,". Also the Greek word for mind that Jesus uses is not the word that the "questioner" uses but regardless, Jesus ends up telling him he is not far from the kingdom, although, is it possible that Jesus really is referring to "Himself" being right there as the teacher of teachers?
I got the same vibe when I read that the teacher of the law said to Jesus “Well said, teacher,” it came off a bit as playing innocent when his true motives where to test Jesus and possibly trap Him in His words or win one over on Him in a debate.
When Jesus said “You are not far from the kingdom of God” I think Jesus knew the “questioner” was only validating what Jesus said as a perfect answer and didn’t really have a rebuttal for it because there isn’t one. Leaving the remaining thing that brought the “questioner” closer to the kingdom of God was agreeing that He is the true teacher here. Just what I see. So I think we’re seeing this passage the same way.
Jesus gave almost 50 parables.
NONE use a person's name to convey the message Jesus was saying.
That in and of itself, is pretty conclusive proof Lazarus and the rich man is NOT a parable, but an actual account of 2 people.