The Rapture

[J7]

You are turning into the pole dancing woman

 

[Locutus]

I'm more of a master of polemics....

 

[J7]

Pole-lemmings is more how I think of Preterism

 

[J7]

What is you 1 minute Preterist elevator pitch?

 

[garee]

Hosea 6:1-2 KJV
Come, and let us return unto the Lord : for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

[2] After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

I'm not arguing that you're wrong, but what does it mean "after 2 days he will revive us and in the 3rd day he will raise us up and we shall live in his sight"?

2 possiblities that I can think of.

1) After 2000 years is the resurrection and in the 3000th year the resurrected will live in his sight or

2) After two days in the tomb Christ along with the old testament saints resurrected on the 3rd day and they went to heaven with him when he ascended.

I have not looked at that a parable. But it would seem to reflect the work of God working in a person to both will and do the good pleasure of Christ who dwells in the believer calling a person to repent.

Two seems to be used to represent the church, two by two, or the two make one used to represent the likeness of God in respect to the work of the father and son working together in perfect harmony and submission to one another, or we are no longer two, male or female like the new creature we are considered one bride of Christ.

Three denotes the end of the matter as to what ever is in view. Just as the word thousand is used in parable to denote an unknown or a concealed fact.

For instance the scriptures states when informing of the apostate Jews (no faith) who were falsely hoping that through a ceremonial law they were keeping God alive and they were keeping him fed .

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Psa 50:11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.

He does not get hungry and said if He did He would not inform the sinful creature mankind and if he would hunger he owns a thousand cattle on a thousand hill. The spiritual in that parable is an unknown, He who name is Jealous owns all the cattle in all the hills and all the cattle in all the valleys.

Deuteronomy 1:11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)

There he uses an unknown amount of gain to emphasize those who receive him never ending blessings.His blessing are forever

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

There he uses the metaphor thousand again to represent all generations.

Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Again in that parable above he uses thousand to represent an unknown.


We walk by faiththe unseen eternal not by counting as that seen the temporal we put no confidence in the flesh

 

[jtp022]

I see the horsemen from Revelations as Spirits and here is why:

• The First Rider on a White Horse: Revelation 6:1-2: I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals... I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

• The Second Rider on a Red Horse: Revelation 6:3-4: When the Lamb opened the second seal... Another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

i. Think about the color RED and who/what it represents. Red is the color that represents communism. Russia, China, North Korea, German’s in WWII (The red behind the swastika) any country or empire who has been under dictator control. They take peace from the earth and allow their people to kill each other (their military kills their own citizens).

• The Third Rider on a Black Horse: Revelation 6:5-6: When the Lamb opened the third seal... I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand… Saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

i. Think about how many countries live in famine, they are 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] world countries who either have no religion or worship pagan gods. The fact that it takes a whole days work to be paid just with a quart of barley…. That’s no pay at all. The scales represent the equality or the balance of life and food. In other words if your living in famine your health will suffer.

• The Fourth Rider on a Green Horse: Revelation 6:7-8: … And I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

i. Think of Islam here. Pale translates to green in Hebrew. The color of Islam is green, the color of the middle east is green. Their buildings have green tinted glass in them. Their courtyards in the cities are lined with green fences. Each countries flag has green in it, that claims Islam as it’s religion. The quran tells it’s followers to commit suicide, they send suicide bombers making them think they are going to die as a martyr for allah to inherit his promises. Also in the Bible God sends an angel to Abraham and tells him that he will have a son who is to inherit the land of the Jews and Gentiles. Abraham and his wife Sarah were in their 60’s or 70’s, so they didn’t believe they could have a son. Sarah gave Abraham a surrogate wife name Hagar. Who gave birth to Ismael (where Islam was born). Later on God sent the angel again and said you will have a son with Sarah and you are to name him Isaac. So, Sarah had Isaac on the timeline that God had promised.
ii. Now where Islam and Christianity are at war is this part: The covenant that God promised is with Abraham, Sarah and Isaac. Islam believes that the covenant is with Abraham, Hagar and Ismael. God told Ismael to head West and every man’s hand would be against him, he would live by the sword and die by the sword. Notice on the fourth rider he was given the power to kill by the sword.

**** I'm not saying that I am correct. This is all based on studies and learnings I have been in! However, I do think that most of it makes sense. BUT, I could be completely wrong.... Either way, I believe that God does speak to us through signs as He tells us that He will in the Bible. Those signs can help warn us of a nation soon to be judged. So, I try to watch for His language and signs and I feel like most of this connects with them. BUT again I could be wrong... Thoughts?*****

 

[meagain1945]

Just read what Jesus gave the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13 and believe it and you will have it correct.

Samuel23, We must ''rightly divide'' the Word of God. Jesus came unto His own the Jews. He was NOT speaking to the
"Church". He had NOT yet given HIS life a ransom for the dispensation of grace . HE was seeking His own the Jews.

After HE went back to His father in heaven HE ''saved' Saul on the road and HE gave Paul the gift of the mystery
of the Church. Paul was given the ''mystery of the Church''.
JESUS was NOT speaking to the church. It was not
yet here.

Once we get ''saved'' and washed in HIS precious blood we have ''that Holy Spirit of promise''. HE reveals the Word to us ----"rightly divided''

Paul was the one the Lord wants us to listen to be be ''born again'' and be in that church ---the mystery

YES< ALL scripture is for our learning BUT we MUST ''rightly divide'' the Word or we completely mess it up

 

[PlainWord]

Morning Nehemiah6,

It seems these days that Satan and the powers of darkness, have been able to deceive people on just about every Biblical truth. It is amazing to me that with so much detail that is given regarding the new Jerusalem that people continue to interpret it as not being a literal, future city.

Symbolism, as I'm sure that you are aware of is the symbolic representing what is literal. Using the parable of the weeds and wheat as an example: sower = Christ, field = the world, good seed = the sons of the kingdom, weeds = sons of the devil, harvest = end of the age, etc., etc. That said, in order for the new Jerusalem to be symbolic, every detail mentioned regarding the city would have to have a literal counterpart.

It is amazing to me the ability of the enemy to actually get people to ignore the information given as being a literal future city, while ignoring the face value information that is given. It blows my mind man! And they actually try contend for their symbolic interpretation. We are truly experiencing and have been experiencing the following:

"For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

It is sad to see so many of my brothers and sisters so completely and utterly blind in spiritual matters. They are like Thomas, who would not believe unless he was able to touch and see for himself. They are like pharisees looking for a sign. To make matters worse, they then accuse those with spiritual insight to be evil, not tolerating sound doctrine when it is they who do not.

You are missing out on so much and waiting for so many blessings that are already available to you. Truly, I pity you.

 

[heartofdavid]

Wayne Jackson.....

To further add to the later date as accurate,in rev 1 John says " I WAS on the isle of Patmos..."

Was,indicating he wrote it after he left.

 

[Locutus]

Funnily enough so was I ...

 

[PlainWord]

Spiritual Quiz #1:

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”

Was the bread the literal flesh of Jesus? If not, explain the spiritual symbolism.

 

[Bogadile]

I see the horsemen from Revelations as Spirits and here is why:

• The First Rider on a White Horse: Revelation 6:1-2: I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals... I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

• The Second Rider on a Red Horse: Revelation 6:3-4: When the Lamb opened the second seal... Another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

i. Think about the color RED and who/what it represents. Red is the color that represents communism. Russia, China, North Korea, German’s in WWII (The red behind the swastika) any country or empire who has been under dictator control. They take peace from the earth and allow their people to kill each other (their military kills their own citizens).

• The Third Rider on a Black Horse: Revelation 6:5-6: When the Lamb opened the third seal... I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand… Saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

i. Think about how many countries live in famine, they are 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] world countries who either have no religion or worship pagan gods. The fact that it takes a whole days work to be paid just with a quart of barley…. That’s no pay at all. The scales represent the equality or the balance of life and food. In other words if your living in famine your health will suffer.

• The Fourth Rider on a Green Horse: Revelation 6:7-8: … And I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

i. Think of Islam here. Pale translates to green in Hebrew. The color of Islam is green, the color of the middle east is green. Their buildings have green tinted glass in them. Their courtyards in the cities are lined with green fences. Each countries flag has green in it, that claims Islam as it’s religion. The quran tells it’s followers to commit suicide, they send suicide bombers making them think they are going to die as a martyr for allah to inherit his promises. Also in the Bible God sends an angel to Abraham and tells him that he will have a son who is to inherit the land of the Jews and Gentiles. Abraham and his wife Sarah were in their 60’s or 70’s, so they didn’t believe they could have a son. Sarah gave Abraham a surrogate wife name Hagar. Who gave birth to Ismael (where Islam was born). Later on God sent the angel again and said you will have a son with Sarah and you are to name him Isaac. So, Sarah had Isaac on the timeline that God had promised.
ii. Now where Islam and Christianity are at war is this part: The covenant that God promised is with Abraham, Sarah and Isaac. Islam believes that the covenant is with Abraham, Hagar and Ismael. God told Ismael to head West and every man’s hand would be against him, he would live by the sword and die by the sword. Notice on the fourth rider he was given the power to kill by the sword.

**** I'm not saying that I am correct. This is all based on studies and learnings I have been in! However, I do think that most of it makes sense. BUT, I could be completely wrong.... Either way, I believe that God does speak to us through signs as He tells us that He will in the Bible. Those signs can help warn us of a nation soon to be judged. So, I try to watch for His language and signs and I feel like most of this connects with them. BUT again I could be wrong... Thoughts?*****

There is no nice way to say this but, you are just looking at the world and making vague connections to the biblical text. With this method you can come to all sorts of conclusions, in fact you can make the text say whatever you want.

 

[Locutus]

I see some people are posting without jew care and attention...

 

[VCO]

why isnt it considered spiritual to believe that the new jerusalem is a real city with real dimensions? i think its real, why does it make me not spiritual?

OH IT IS REAL ALRIGHT. IT IS THE NEW DWELLING PLACE THAT EVERY JEWISH BRIDEGROOM WAS REQUIRED TO BUILD FOR HIS BRIDE BEFORE HE COULD BRING HER HOME TO HIS FATHER'S HOUSE.


John 14:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.


Sounds to me like someone was denying our physical Resurrection.

 

[VCO]

I agree, it was a laurel crown like a crown of THORNS. How many hints do you need lol.... God does everything except come out and directly say the rider is Jesus and you still REJECT Christ and CHOOSE antichrist in that verse.... I'm beginning to be concerned over your beliefs. I hope you will go to the Lord in prayer over this and ask him to remove the blinders and allow you to see the truth.


View attachment 173799

The biggest flaw in your wild theory is you have HIM coming all the way to Earth two different times in the Book of Revelation.

In the Rapture he does not come all the way to earth but stops some distance away, and sends the Archangel the rest of the way to SHOUT and Call the Bride Out. That is Jewish Tradition to choose a member of the groomsmen, to go on ahead of where the Bridegroom stopped, to Call the Bride Out.

6:2 white horse. The animal represents an unparalleled time of world peace—a false peace that is to be short-lived (see note on v. 4). This peace will be ushered in by a series of false messiahs, culminating with the Antichrist (Matt. 24:3-5). He who sat on it. The four horses and their riders do not represent specific individuals, but forces. Some, however, identify this rider with Antichrist. Although he will be the leading figure, John’s point is that the entire world will follow him, being obsessed with pursuing this false peace. bow. The bow is a symbol of war, but the absence of arrows implies that this victory is a bloodless one—a peace won by covenant and agreement, not by war (cf. Dan. 9:24-27). crown. This word refers to the kind of laurel wreath awarded winning athletes. It “was given to him.” Antichrist becomes king, elected by the world’s inhabitants regardless of the cost, and will conquer the entire earth in a bloodless coup.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

 

[KJV1611]

Those scriptures that you provided are just misapplied. They have nothing to do with the first seal rider, which his revealing is future by the way. You have a very strange and unorthodox way of interpreting scripture.

I showed you the difference between the two riders, the rider of the first seal being a counterfeit and the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11-21 being the Lord, and you didn't believe that, even with the comparison right in front of you.



Forgive me, but the above is laughable that you would even try to compare a young donkey to a white horse. The rider on the white horse has nothing to do with Jesus riding into Jerusalem on the foal of a donkey.

John 12:13-15 KJV
Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. [14] And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, [15] Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.

Can you explain HOW an ass IS NOT a horse?

ass[SUP]1[/SUP]
as/
noun

• 1.
  a hoofed mammal of the horse family with a braying call, typically smaller than a horse and with longer ears.
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]donkey, jackass, jenny; burro
  "he rode on an ass"
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  
  

 

[KJV1611]

The problem with this discussion from our futurist friends is the assumption that John's revelation was written around 95 AD.

This is a screen shot from E.W. Bullinger's book, in which he quotes the heading to the Syriac version of John's Apocalypse which states:

"The Revelation, which was made by God to John the Evangelist, in the island of Patmos, to which he was banished by Nero the Emperor"

This was previously mentioned by Mr. Plainus-wordus, but was generally ignored.

Link to Bullinger's book on google books:


https://books.google.ca/books?id=My...VAhUS9WMKHSs3BFMQ6AEIMTAC#v=onepage&q&f=false

Bullinger based on this and the internal evidence advocates an early date for the writing of the book of revelation even though he was an ultra-dispensationalist.

How this affected his theology I have no idea.

This just proves that HISTORY doesn't know when John wrote the book nor when he recieved the vision.... what ever view a person wants to be true, some version of history will back it. The only way to date the boook of Revelation is by the text of the book of Revelation.

 

[KJV1611]

I have not looked at that a parable. But it would seem to reflect the work of God working in a person to both will and do the good pleasure of Christ who dwells in the believer calling a person to repent.

Two seems to be used to represent the church, two by two, or the two make one used to represent the likeness of God in respect to the work of the father and son working together in perfect harmony and submission to one another, or we are no longer two, male or female like the new creature we are considered one bride of Christ.

Three denotes the end of the matter as to what ever is in view. Just as the word thousand is used in parable to denote an unknown or a concealed fact.

For instance the scriptures states when informing of the apostate Jews (no faith) who were falsely hoping that through a ceremonial law they were keeping God alive and they were keeping him fed .

Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
Psa 50:11 I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.

He does not get hungry and said if He did He would not inform the sinful creature mankind and if he would hunger he owns a thousand cattle on a thousand hill. The spiritual in that parable is an unknown, He who name is Jealous owns all the cattle in all the hills and all the cattle in all the valleys.

Deuteronomy 1:11 (The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)

There he uses an unknown amount of gain to emphasize those who receive him never ending blessings.His blessing are forever

Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

There he uses the metaphor thousand again to represent all generations.

Psa 68:17 The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels: the Lord is among them, as in Sinai, in the holy place.

Again in that parable above he uses thousand to represent an unknown.


We walk by faiththe unseen eternal not by counting as that seen the temporal we put no confidence in the flesh

I've read that passage a hundred times and never came to those conclusions lol. So I think you're saying that after two day means... honestly I don't know what you mean.

 

[KJV1611]

It is sad to see so many of my brothers and sisters so completely and utterly blind in spiritual matters. They are like Thomas, who would not believe unless he was able to touch and see for himself. They are like pharisees looking for a sign. To make matters worse, they then accuse those with spiritual insight to be evil, not tolerating sound doctrine when it is they who do not.

You are missing out on so much and waiting for so many blessings that are already available to you. Truly, I pity you.

The physical children have always been that way. You speak about things they can't comprehend therfor they think you are insane lol. I don't agree with you on the second coming, resurrection and 1000 year reign but at least you see CHRIST on the pages of the bible.... a far cry from the others.

 

[Locutus]

Some of you need to not lean on your own mis-understanding...