The Rapture
- Thread starter 2nicee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H
heartofdavid
Guest
I can tell you the root of the entire deal is Israel.
When Israel became a nation,it was reset on the prophetic.
That component is HUGE.
OK,that alone destroys their deal. They MUST work around it. They MUST make it disappear..
THAT MEANS DISPENSATIONS HAVE TO BE A FAIRY TALE.
See that? That is their starting place. Their starting place is bogus.
THAT IS WHY YOU WILL NEVER,EVER,GET ON THE SAME PAGE.
They must reinvent themselves.....and that ain't happening.
The "wrath" is poured out on those who have the mark,worship the image ect. but is this before or after those are sealed with the mark of God in Revelation 7:3? So is what happens to the ones with the mark of God a result of the tribulation of those days by the beast or is it what happens because of Gods wrath? In other words is the vials,plagues ect. because of what the beast does or is it just poured on everyone who is in the earth in that day? I ask this because it is always consistent that the wrath is poured out on those who have the mark,worship the image ect.
i suspect its also that. its like they throw the old testament prophecies out the window. only way i would ever believe that is if there was a new testament verse that said all old testament prophecies are out. but since there isnt, here is what we got
Lokk at it this way,
If the destruction of ad70 is because they had the mark,worshipped the beast ect. then it's already fulfilled past tense. The thing about it is that if Rome,Ceasar,Vespasian,Titus ect. are the beast whom the mark applies to then the Jews who were involved in the first Jewish revolt minted their own money in ad66 and refused to use Rome's money/mark and they refused to honour Rome's authority they rebelled/revolted(see Josephus).
So if the Jews refused to bow down to the Romans and he was the beast of Revelation 13 then they refused to take the mark of the beast. In Romans 13 and 1Peter 2 the Christians are told to Honour the authority over them as Ordained by God(Rome at that time) and used the money of Rome to buy and sell. So if they bowed down to Rome as the authority over them as ordained by God then they would have received the mark of the beast(cant be right,right?). Notice that the marks would be on the incorrect foreheads if Revelation 13 was fulfilled in ad66-70.
The verse you referenced to is not speaking of natural unconverted man (the mark) represented by the word six hundred adn sixty six, the number of man as a beast of the field (flesh and blood)
It is speaking from the vatage point of the new heavens and earth the second and final ressurection . The old corrupted has already vanished never to return again
H
heartofdavid
Guest
Revelation was written 20 years after the historicist supposed fulfillment,making it impossible .
".. What things must soon take place..."
Not; what things already took place.
Future,not historical.
Hello iamsoandso! Well, if you notice the seal of the 144,000 takes place after the 6th seal is opened. Therefore, since the wrath of God begins with the 1st seal being opened, the sealing of the 144,000 takes place after the 6th seal and prior to the 7th seal, where the angels are given their trumpets. Consequently, scripture specifies that the 144,000 are only protected from the affects of the 5th trumpet (Rev.9:4). In addition, there is nothing in scripture that states that the great tribulation saints are protected from God's plagues of wrath.
The events of the beast, the false prophet and all that they do is apart of God's wrath. God's wrath will be in operation in form or another during that entire seven years. God even uses the beast and the ten kings to destroy the woman who rides the beast (Rev.17:16-17).
We also know that the beast and his kingdom is apart of God's wrath, because the seven years that the antichrist will establish with Israel, is the fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem (Dan.9:24)
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be the fulfillment of the day of the Lord. It will be poured out on all the inhabitants of the earth. God even uses the 5th bowl judgment specifically for the beast and his kingdom (Rev.16:10)
As an example that God's wrath will affect everyone, how could anyone be protected from a third of the earth and trees being burned up? Or at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, how can anyone escape the torment of those demonic beings who come out of the Abyss to sting the inhabitants with stings like a scorpion? At the pouring out of the 4th bowl, an angel pours out his bowl on the sun so that it scorches the people of the earth with intense heat. How can anyone not be affected by that? As I said earlier, the only ones who are exempt from the 5th trumpet will be those 144,000, but no other protection is mentioned for them or anyone else.
H
heartofdavid
Guest
The dead in Christ rise pretrib
only those in Christ are risen.
Now,the third resurrection is at the GWT judgement. That includes all excluded in the 1thess resurrection.
The first being Jesus and the patriarchs while the disciples walked the earth.
H
heartofdavid
Guest
Funny how you can show them the "7th" trump thingy,and they will still misconstrue it.
The destruction of the Temple is nothing to do with the mark of the beast
Where did you get this, it is messed up?
Yeah, unfortunately that is par for the course these days on every Biblical topic.
Sorry plainword, seems I made a mistake.
I was supposed to post that pretrib v postrib rapture video, to my thread.
My thread is "Exodus or Rapture before the great tribulation", started about 2 weeks ago.
So when seeing your comment I thought it was a first on my thread.
Yeah...growing old is a pain.
Anyway, when the great tribulation does happen and you have to flee, we will have the place prepared by God (the wilderness) all set up, to welcome you to the beginning of God's Kingdom on earth. We flee to EDEN.
Joel 2; "before us a garden of Eden...behind us a desolate waste". Mmmm...that's never happened before.
We have one leader only...Jesus.
HERE we await HIS return.
Sorry again...bye bye.
I was supposed to post that pretrib v postrib rapture video, to my thread.
My thread is "Exodus or Rapture before the great tribulation", started about 2 weeks ago.
So when seeing your comment I thought it was a first on my thread.
Yeah...growing old is a pain.
Anyway, when the great tribulation does happen and you have to flee, we will have the place prepared by God (the wilderness) all set up, to welcome you to the beginning of God's Kingdom on earth. We flee to EDEN.
Joel 2; "before us a garden of Eden...behind us a desolate waste". Mmmm...that's never happened before.
We have one leader only...Jesus.
HERE we await HIS return.
Sorry again...bye bye.
Makes you wonder about them and their Theology, don't it? What kind of FRUIT is HATRED? It doesn't make me angry if they choose to believe FOOLISHNESS, that is between them and GOD, and does not effect one bit, MY LOVE FOR MY BRIDEGROOM JESUS CHRIST, NOR MY BELIEVING MY BRIDEGROOM IS COMING TO HAVE THE ARCHANGEL CALL US OUT TO GO TO THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB.
OBVIOUSLY, THE ANGER THEY EXIBIT TOWARDS US, IS A PASSION OF THE FLESH!
Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery {GK - pharmakeia, the same Greek word we get pharmaceuticals from}, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:22-24 (ESV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Proverbs 10:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
Proverbs 10:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.
Proverbs 26:26 (HCSB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Though his hatred is concealed by deception, his evil will be revealed in the assembly.
AND since Mal. 3:6 tells us that the LORD DOES NOT CHANGE; . . . . THEN all who have the FaITH OF ABRAHAM, INCLUDING O.T. SAINTS, are placed into the Spiritual body of Messiah.
FAITH of ABRAHAM: Because GOD provided the Ram as a substitute for Isaac, Abraham Believed GOD would provide the ultimate Sacrifice for Sins, a MESSIAH to come in the future.
O.T. Saints: are those who believed GOD would send MESSIAH to pay for sins.
N.T. Saints: are those who believe GOD did send MESSIAH to pay for sins.
NOW SKEPTICS, explain to me, How O.T. Saints with the SAME FAITH we have, are not co-equally IN MESSIAH?
THINK AGAIN, it is coming.
The answer to the riddle is really very simple in this modern era of computerized scanners.
TECHNOLOGY NEEDED TO FULFILL THE MARK OF THE BEAST
No 666 is not a symbol, it is only a number that identifies a man, IT SAYS SO, read it again.
Revelation 13:16-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
In other words it is similar to our Social Security numbers. Only this one will be three groups of 6 digits. Henry Kissenger invented such a EMERGENCY plan in the late 90s, in case the perceived Y2K world wide banking crash actually happened. Since it is the computer age, it probably will be a number imbedded in a very small microchip or biochip as they want to call those designed for humans. They are already testing the (RFID) Radio Frequency Identification Devices in humans in Florida. In particular, for Seniors with Alzheimer's to store their health records on. Instead of the chip that was about twice the size of a grain of rice, like the one in my dog's neck; they have now shrunk the RFID down to not a whole lot bigger than a grain of salt. I posted the following on another site a couple years ago, so the technology is even more advanced now. I added two links at the bottom very recently, in fact that second to the bottom link was dated 20 Nov. 2013 and has a picture of the world's fastest super computer, which doubled the size and speed of the previous record holder. Those two links show that the world really does computers big enough and fast enough acomodate all the worlds bank accounts, and the fact that RFID readers are already starting to show up in stores, should make us sit up and take notice that the stage is set and the time could be very near.
WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST
The most likely thing the Mark of the Beast could be is a biochip implant, because of the Biblical statement that one will not be able to buy or sell anything without it. They currently have built into them up to a 15 digit ID numbering system. It will not surprise me, (if the Church is still here), when the Antichrist comes to power as the Head of State of the old Roman Empire; that he averts a world wide economic collapse by converting all of the worlds monitary systems and bank accounts to function like credit cards in the form of these implanted biochips. AND watch him add a number to all three hyphenated groups of numbers stored in those Biochip IDs, such as: 123456-123456-123456. Hence his number will be 666 (6 digits dash 6 digits dash 6 digits). Also some of the Techs working on these super computers that they believe we are going to need in the near future, have jokingly referred to their super computers as the "beast"; but I am not laughing.
HERE IS THE RFID MICROCHIP TV ADVERT 100% PROOF IT IS HERE - YouTube
IBM RFID Commercial - The Future Market - YouTube
Hitachi Releases 2.5mm C1G2 Durable RFID Tag: Host Louis Sirico - YouTube
Under Your SkinThe War against Freedom – Human Biochip Implant
Microchip Implants
Bio-chip implant arrives for cashless transactions
Tianhe-2 Tops Supercomputer List > ENGINEERING.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GovcXrEVCc
NOW if you can just GRASP that it really does say that Messiah the Prince will be cut off AFTER the 62 Weeks of years (7 Weeks + 62 Weeks = 69 Weeks = 483 years), and MESSIAH'S DEATH is long before the 70th Week ever begins, and that gap between the 69th Week and the 70th week is an unspecified number of years (the Church Age), because the subject IN DANIEAL'S PROPHECY is only "how long will GOD continue to deal ISRAEL". Therefore the 70th Week of Daniel comes AFTER the Church Age.
THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU HAVE FULLY ARRIVED AT THE TRUTH.
THEREFORE THE THIRD TEMPLE IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO FULFILL THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL PROPHECY.