The Rapture

[popeye]

i respectfully disagree because i think of all the views i have seen the 'pretribrapture' has the least bible basis it has no verses to back it up only 1 thessalonians 4:16 and even that ssays Lord shall descend at the sound of the trumpet so it doesnt look very convincing to me because when does the Lord descend? when He comes back

Rev 14 is a huge game changer. A rapture during the GT.

If your doctrine is so solid,post for me ONE Postrib rapture verse. Just one.

Can't do it?

Them post one pointing to it.

Let me save you some time. There see zero.

 

[Muzungu256]

Rev 14 is a huge game changer. A rapture during the GT.

If your doctrine is so solid,post for me ONE Postrib rapture verse. Just one.

Can't do it?

Them post one pointing to it.

Let me save you some time. There see zero.

here is one: 1 thessalonians 4:16, matthew24, luke 21, mark 13 where in all of those it says "after the tribulation" elect shall be gathered. if you look at it in a premillennial fashion thats how it goes.

 

[popeye]

No we both believe he returns after the tribulation.

Those verses you posted say the elect are gathered FROM HEAVEN,BY ANGELS,NOT JESUS.

Ok,now go back and find a post trib RAPTURE verse.

Remember,the dead rise FIRST.

So,you need a rapture before Rev 14.

 

[Muzungu256]

No we both believe he returns after the tribulation.

Those verses you posted say the elect are gathered FROM HEAVEN,BY ANGELS,NOT JESUS.

Ok,now go back and find a post trib RAPTURE verse.

Remember,the dead rise FIRST.

So,you need a rapture before Rev 14.

if i understand correctly 1 thessalonians 4:16 is 'the' rapture verse and it says the Lord descends meaning it happens at his coming, and it matches with 1 cor 15 and matt24 mark13 etc etc.
but if you dont see it the way i see it thats fine no need to bicker about it.

 

[popeye]

Ironically,you posted a verse that makes post trib impossible.

The dead,according to your verse,rise FIRST.

Rev 14 makes post trib impossible. (you have the dead rising after the living).

You don't read with an open mind. That is how you guys come to that ridiculous post trib rapture silliness.

We rule this dimension.

You guys are 100% debunked

 

[popeye]

if i understand correctly 1 thessalonians 4:16 is 'the' rapture verse and it says the Lord descends meaning it happens at his coming, and it matches with 1 cor 15 and matt24 mark13 etc etc.
but if you dont see it the way i see it thats fine no need to bicker about it.

He descends in rev 14,during the GT.(you guys are standing on conjecture)

Who is bickering.

I am showing you where you are wrong.

 

[Muzungu256]

Ironically,you posted a verse that makes post trib impossible.

The dead,according to your verse,rise FIRST.

Rev 14 makes post trib impossible. (you have the dead rising after the living).

You don't read with an open mind. That is how you guys come to that ridiculous post trib rapture silliness.

We rule this dimension.

You guys are 100% debunked

its very unpleasant to talk with you because of your arrogant attitude so im ending this conversation then, God bless you take care we will see who is right eventually..... also i dont see a rapture in rev14

 

[popeye]

Ok,we all,(most all) agree he only COMES TO EARTH twice.

(we will just wink at all the other times he appeared to Paul and John.

Rev 14 shows he comes to gather,but never touches earth.

It is as if Postribs are given special assistance in the word to abandon even the notion of a postrib rapture.

 

[popeye]

its very unpleasant to talk with you because of your arrogant attitude so im ending this conversation then, God bless you take care we will see who is right eventually..... also i dont see a rapture in rev14

Bless you too my friend.

Keep studying,you will see it,but you are going to have to open your mind.

You are wrong,that is why you feel that way.

You guys come to the table with conjecture. We rule this debate. We have solid biblical doctrine. Our bibles against men's conjecture.

Btw, debate the concept. Not the person personally.

 

[valiant]

Rev 14 is a huge game changer. A rapture during the GT.

If your doctrine is so solid,post for me ONE Postrib rapture verse. Just one.

Can't do it?

Them post one pointing to it.

Let me save you some time. There see zero.

The rapture takes place at the end of time as I Thess 4 makes clear. The dead are resurrected and the living go to join them with the Lord. Judgement comes on the ungodly.

The great tribulation was a Jewish thing and will end at the same time (or earlier).

 

[popeye]

Part of the problem with wrong doctrine is the "starting place"

Most every post trib starts with the GT.

But worse yet,their doctrine is NOT post trib rapture centered. It is,in fact ANTI PRETRIB.

That is why their deal can not stand exegesis. Once the BIBLE becomes the center,they are finished.

You see,the bible has the bride,the groom,heaven,the wedding supper,the saints in heaven,the business in heaven depicted at the last supper,and so on.

So,so,so many things postribs have no knowledge of. Their teachers are robbers. They have been robbed of the goodness of God....our blessed hope.

The correct starting place is the groom. Not the GT.

The postrib doctrine STARTS wrong. It STARTS with anti pretrib. It was doomed from the start...ironically it's starting place sealed it's demise.

You never see the initiate those verses that expand the debate.

Pretrib prays back to heaven heavens heartbeat...." EVEN SO,COME LORD JESUS"

 

[popeye]

The rapture takes place at the end of time as I Thess 4 makes clear. The dead are resurrected and the living go to join them with the Lord. Judgement comes on the ungodly.

The great tribulation was a Jewish thing and will end at the same time (or earlier).

No ,there never has been the events of the GT. It is positively a future event.

I get a chuckle when the flying scorpions and the mark of the beast are spiritualized by cunning men's minds.

 

[valiant]

Ok,we all,(most all) agree he only COMES TO EARTH twice.

The second time to bring about the rapture and judgement upon the world.

(we will just wink at all the other times he appeared to Paul and John.

ok

Rev 14 shows he comes to gather,but never touches earth.

He come to gather and then brings judgment on the world.

It is as if Postribs are given special assistance in the word to abandon even the notion of a postrib rapture.

There is no 'tribulation period'. That is a myth. The great tribulation was on the Jews from 70 ad to the present time

 

[valiant]

No ,there never has been the events of the GT. It is positively a future event.

Luke's parallel passage describes the tribulation on the Jews which Matthew call great tribulation It begins at the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad and goes on though history as the Jews are dispersed around the world.,

I get a chuckle when the flying scorpions and the mark of the beast are spiritualized by cunning men's minds.

Chuckle on : the mark of the Roman Beast was very real and was the offering of sacrifice to the Emperor for which men were stamped. The flying scorpions are symbolic of demons and their activities.

 

[samuel23]

Hey Popeye, I don't know why you keep singing that same old song, "post just one post trib verse". They have been posted for you over and over and over, you just pretend that you do not see them. Here they are for you to read again, the words of Jesus Himself describing His return to rapture the church. Matt 24:29 immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days...shall appear the Son of man in heaven..and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven...and they shall gather His chosen from the four winds. OK, now it is your turn to quote me a scripture that says that Jesus will return before the tribulation. You can twist scripture until it looks like a pretzel but you will never find where it says that Jesus will return before the tribulation...BECAUSE JOHN DARBY MADE THAT IDEA UP!

 

[samuel23]

Popeye, I will concede that pre-trib has a scriptural position if you will explain to this forum why in Matt 24, Mark 13, Jesus said that He would return in the sky, with angels and a trumpet blast and gather all the believers AFTER THE TRIBULATION?? Explain to us why Jesus was not saying what Jesus was saying. If you can honestly address what Jesus said about His return to gather those who believe in Him, then do so. And PLEASE just stick to what Jesus said, no essays on why you THINK there should be a pre-trib rapture.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

i took a stance on this before... but now i dont think about it

or have a stance




Matthew 25:1-13

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.



i dont think it helps knowing if its pre trib or post trip or at the 3.5 year mark or anything


if this gets revealed to me thats amazing

but i think this topic is too controversal

and its better to worry about having "oil " ready


if youre supposed to clean your room before your parents return

and youre spendin all this time tryin to find out exactly when

it would be better to just clean your room
before you worry about it



and i feel like my room is still a little messy

 

[valiant]

Part of the problem with wrong doctrine is the "starting place".

Agreed, the nonsensical 'seventieth week'

Most every post trib starts with the GT.

well I can't answer for the post trib. But I can tell you that the great tribulation is on the Jews and began in 70 AD.

But worse yet,their doctrine is NOT post trib rapture centered. It is,in fact ANTI PRETRIB.

very sensible of them.

That is why their deal can not stand exegesis. Once the BIBLE becomes the center,they are finished.

Yes because the GT is not occurring at the end of time. It has been going on for the Jews for 2000 years. Once the Bible becomes center the pretribs collapse in despair. I once was one so I know

You see,the bible has the bride,the groom,heaven,the wedding supper,the saints in heaven,the business in heaven depicted at the last supper,and so on.

all parables indicating God's dealings with mankind. no mention of a tribulation.

So,so,so many things postribs have no knowledge of. Their teachers are robbers. They have been robbed of the goodness of God....our blessed hope.

well I enjoy the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. But of course I recognise that it comes at the end of time. All I am robbed of are the pre mill myths lol

The correct starting place is the groom. Not the GT.

The only thing that matters is the Groom.

The postrib doctrine STARTS wrong. It STARTS with anti pretrib. It was doomed from the start...ironically it's starting place sealed it's demise

.


well may both post trib and pre trib vanish as the myths they are. And then we can get back to the Scriptures

 

[popeye]

Luke's parallel passage describes the tribulation on the Jews which Matthew call great tribulation It begins at the destruction of the Temple in 70 ad and goes on though history as the Jews are dispersed around the world.,



Chuckle on : the mark of the Roman Beast was very real and was the offering of sacrifice to the Emperor for which men were stamped. The flying scorpions are symbolic of demons and their activities.

The scorpions are told not to eat any green thing. That makes your cunning ascribing seem a little silly LOL

 

[popeye]

Agreed, the nonsensical 'seventieth week'



well I can't answer for the post trib. But I can tell you that the great tribulation is on the Jews and began in 70 AD.



very sensible of them.



Yes because the GT is not occurring at the end of time. It has been going on for the Jews for 2000 years. Once the Bible becomes center the pretribs collapse in despair. I once was one so I know



all parables indicating God's dealings with mankind. no mention of a tribulation.



well I enjoy the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. But of course I recognise that it comes at the end of time. All I am robbed of are the pre mill myths lol



The only thing that matters is the Groom.

.


well may both post trib and pre trib vanish as the myths they are. And then we can get back to the Scriptures

Once you guys are confronted we get your wild imagination spiritualizing away the flying scorpions and the mark required by earth's inhabitants.

What was the mark of the beast????
What cunning answer do you guys invent???