The Rapture
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Hello followJesus,
Matt.24:29-31 is not about the gathering of the church. When the Lord sends out his angels to gather the elect from the "Four Winds, from one end of the heaven to the other" it is a phrase that refers to gathering from all over the entire earth. Also, those being gathered by the angels will be those great tribulation saints and Israel who make it through the time of God's wrath and the beasts reign, alive and in their mortal bodies. Regarding this phrase and its meaning, please consider the following:
"Listen, a noise on the mountains, like that of a great multitude! Listen, an uproar among the kingdoms, like nations massing together! The Lord Almighty is mustering an army for war. They come from faraway lands, from the ends of the heavens—the Lord and the weapons of his wrath—to destroy the whole country.
So, in the scripture above, the great multitude, which are all of the nations massing together, are said to be coming from faraway land,s from the ends of the heavens. The phrase is being used to refer to people coming from different places throughout the entire earth and not is not referring to people being gathered up into the air.
"From the ends of the heavens" refers to armies being gathered from all over the earth. The same thing is being said here in Matt.24:31 where the angels go out and gather the elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. That is, the angels will be going throughout the entire earth and gathering the elect. And again, those who will be gathered will be the living, not the dead in Christ.
What is being described here in Matt.24:31 is synonymous with the parable of Matt.13:24-30, 36-43. Those elect who will be gathered is referring to "the wheat" who are gathered after "the weeds," which are living people.
This is why it is important to understand that there is a difference between the event of the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to end the age. They are two separate events with Matt.24:31 referring to the event of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and is not describing the gathering of the church.
One of the biggest problems that you have is that if Matt.24:29-31 was referring to the gathering of the church, that would mean that the church would have to go through the entire wrath of God, because the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place prior to Matt.24:29-31.
The church cannot go through God's wrath and that because it was already poured on Christ:
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!"
"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."
The church is not appointed to suffer any wrath, neither the wrath to come upon this earth nor the wrath of condemning judgment at the great white throne. Jesus experienced God's wrath for every believer, satisfying it completely. We have therefore been reconciled to God and have been credited with righteousness.
If your talking about the Jesus' arrival in Jerusalem on April 6, 32AD, I agree. YES
However, concerning 1 Cor 15:23-24, it is Paul preaching to others about Jesus , his death and resurrection and Final coming in the future. Rem. It is all about context, context,m context..... 1 Cor 15:11.." Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed. NO
1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24.
Jesus the first fruits, Jn 5:25, "Now is". OT saints.
Those at His coming, Resurrection/rapture, "is coming", "all", Jn 5:28-29, 1 Thess 4:13-18.
Death destroyed, Rev 20:14:15
The end when the kingdom is delivered up to the Father, wedding of Israel (wild and natural)
Jesus submits to the Father.
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Only 2 resurrections are shown, can we take one away? or add more?
It does not hurt anything when one uses other references when studying the Bible. (i.e THe Bible Mat. 24...tells us not one stone would be left un-turned.
Josephus tells us the whole story of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.
Rem.. The little verse were it says "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:" Mat 24:32
Well, the destruction of Jerusalem not only happened in 70 AD...A Generation of 38 years (same as in the wilderness) from 32 AD was prophesied. And yes it did happen in the summer... as Josephus put it, August and September.
This not only verifies the Bible for those that scoff at it but also adds a little insight to it prophecies. Do you not think so.
Of course there are many, many references out there, some good and some bad. That does not mean one has to treat them as idols.
No abcdef, the Messiah was cut off/crucified at the end of the 69th week of years.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing"
7 sevens = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem
62 sevens = The Messiah will be cut off
7 sevens plus 62 sevens = 69 sevens = Christ crucified
From that time forward, God put the last seven years on pause and began building the church, which is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, then God will hit the "continue button" and take up where He left off with Israel's program fulfilling the following:
" to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place." - Dan.9:24
Dan. 9:25, "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and three score and two weeks:"
The Messiah COMES at the 69th week.
Dan 9:26, AFTER that Jesus dies. 69 weeks 3 1/2 years.
And.....There are only 2 resurrections.
The wedding takes place After death is destroyed? yes/no?
"Hallelujah!For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns. Let us rejoice and celebrate and give Him the glory. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. She was given clothing of fine linen, linen bright and pure.”
The wedding of the Lamb takes place in heaven during God's wrath on the earth and prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. As you can see from the scripture in Rev.19:6-8 the marriage and the wedding feast is taking place, then in Rev.19:11-21 Jesus descends from heaven and his bride (the armies in heaven) are seen following him out of heaven riding on those white horses and wearing the same fine linen, white and clean, that she (the bride) will have previously received at the wedding as found in Rev.19:6-8.
"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing"
After Jesus died at the end of the 69 weeks of years, that last seven will be fulfilled in the future in conjunction with the end of the age.
Rev 19 is a continuation of the prophecies concerning the defeat of the Roman Empire beast. It is only a prophecy of the wedding.
The wedding can ONLY take place AFTER death is destroyed and the kingdom is delivered up to the Father, Rev 20:14-15.
It doesn't say "out of heaven", it says that heaven was opened and they were seen, it does not say that they "return" to earth, that is an assumption.
The sword is the Bible. It is a picture of the defeat of the Roman Empire (sea beast) by Christians, Jesus.
See how there is a remnant, the earth beast, the image of the Empire, the Vatican. V 21
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You say that the wedding takes place exactly when?
Over a 7 year time span?
When is the complete kingdom delivered up to the Father? The beginning? the middle? the end?
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And what about the souls after the resur./rapt., that happened at the beginning of the 7 years?
What covenant will they be under? If the covenant of the kingdom is ended?
V 25 says the the Messiah arrives at the beginning of the 69th week.
But you have Jesus dying after 7 years of ministry.
7 sevens to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
62 sevens Messiah is cut off, crucified
7 sevens x 62 sevens = 69 sevens
The last seven years will be fulfilled in conjunction with the end of the age seven years leading up to Christ's return to the earth to end the age. Dan.9:27 is the description of that last seven years of which Jesus is not here during that future time. The seven years will be established when that ruler, the antichrist makes his covenant for one seven. In the middle of that seven is when the abomination is set up and 3 1/2 years later is when the Lord Returns to the earth to end the age. Jesus is not involved in the last seven years, for he will not be on the earth during that time.
You have a very confused interpretation of scripture.
Many, many, assumptions on your part.
The AoD is the reason that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad
It was revealed at the dest. that Caesar was the Antichrist and Rome was the 4th beast/iron legs.
The end of the age was the end of the temple age.
Jesus returned with clouds of armies and destroyed Jerusalem.
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The Antichrist was revealed as Caesar, in 70 ad. (Vatican)
But you are in denial that Rome is the beast.
Every time that you say that the Antichrist is not revealed,
You deny that Caesar/the Bishop of Rome is the Antichrist, you're helping to hide him.
He's been here all this time.
It seems to me the main debate is whether or not, "The End of the Age" happened in 70 AD in reference to Israel's destruction or if it is a future world-wide "end of the world." We also see the phrase, "last days" bantered about. Same thing, were the disciples living in the "last days (of their nation)" or are the "last days" future? Solve this question and it resolves so many things.
It is my contention (and a-f and others) that the "end of the age" and "last days" were discussing the end of Israel as a nation in 70 AD. They were in their "last days," their "age was coming to an end." Let's look at the uses of these two phrases:
Heb 1: God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [SUP]2 [/SUP]has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds..."
Is there any doubt the "last days" spoken in the above were in the days of Jesus? Who thinks not?
2 Tim 3: But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [SUP]3 [/SUP]unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, [SUP]4 [/SUP]traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
In the above Paul is telling Timothy to turn away from such people that will come in "their last days." Paul is discussing the religious leaders, zealots and tyrants that ruled Jerusalem in their last days.
Acts 2: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
In the above Peter cites Joel 2. Peter clearly was telling his audience that Joel's prophesy of their last days was coming true right then and now.
James, writing to the 12 tribes which were scattered abroad says this:
James 5: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! [SUP]2 [/SUP]Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth (Hosts).
James is exactly describing the ruling class of Jerusalem. The tyrants, John and Simon, along with their bands of robbers, robbed the people blind of their money and food. They lived fat and happy while the people starved to death (3rd seal). They were unable to take their treasure out of the city when the Romans broke through and they were caught. These tyrants and their robbers fought each other and slaughtered the people while Rome lay outside building their siege wall. Hundreds of thousands died of starvation while these evil men prospered. They killed all who tried to escape. They thought God was on their side, they took over the Temple, murdered the priests and appointed their own priests. They drank wine from the sacred cups and stole the temple's treasures.
Mat 13" Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
It was the end of their age. The tares were the wicked Jews all of whom came into the city from the surrounding cities for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Once inside they became trapped. The righteous Jews, which "grew up alongside them" were rescued and told when to flee. "therefore when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..." "Let those in Judea flee to the mountains."
Mat 28: teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Christ was with THEM, to the end of the age. "You" meant those He was speaking to.
1 Cor 10: Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Paul is clearly placing the "end of the ages" in his generation.
Heb 9: He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Here Christ is placed at the end of the ages at the time of the Cross.
That's right ALL OF THESE passages which so many think deal with the end of the world, instead dealt with the end of THEIR age, the end of the Mosaic Age, end of Israel and their world as they knew it.
It is my contention (and a-f and others) that the "end of the age" and "last days" were discussing the end of Israel as a nation in 70 AD. They were in their "last days," their "age was coming to an end." Let's look at the uses of these two phrases:
Heb 1: God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, [SUP]2 [/SUP]has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds..."
Is there any doubt the "last days" spoken in the above were in the days of Jesus? Who thinks not?
2 Tim 3: But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: [SUP]2 [/SUP]For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [SUP]3 [/SUP]unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, [SUP]4 [/SUP]traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
In the above Paul is telling Timothy to turn away from such people that will come in "their last days." Paul is discussing the religious leaders, zealots and tyrants that ruled Jerusalem in their last days.
Acts 2: ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
In the above Peter cites Joel 2. Peter clearly was telling his audience that Joel's prophesy of their last days was coming true right then and now.
James, writing to the 12 tribes which were scattered abroad says this:
James 5: Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! [SUP]2 [/SUP]Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth (Hosts).
James is exactly describing the ruling class of Jerusalem. The tyrants, John and Simon, along with their bands of robbers, robbed the people blind of their money and food. They lived fat and happy while the people starved to death (3rd seal). They were unable to take their treasure out of the city when the Romans broke through and they were caught. These tyrants and their robbers fought each other and slaughtered the people while Rome lay outside building their siege wall. Hundreds of thousands died of starvation while these evil men prospered. They killed all who tried to escape. They thought God was on their side, they took over the Temple, murdered the priests and appointed their own priests. They drank wine from the sacred cups and stole the temple's treasures.
Mat 13" Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
It was the end of their age. The tares were the wicked Jews all of whom came into the city from the surrounding cities for the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Once inside they became trapped. The righteous Jews, which "grew up alongside them" were rescued and told when to flee. "therefore when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..." "Let those in Judea flee to the mountains."
Mat 28: teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
Christ was with THEM, to the end of the age. "You" meant those He was speaking to.
1 Cor 10: Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Paul is clearly placing the "end of the ages" in his generation.
Heb 9: He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Here Christ is placed at the end of the ages at the time of the Cross.
That's right ALL OF THESE passages which so many think deal with the end of the world, instead dealt with the end of THEIR age, the end of the Mosaic Age, end of Israel and their world as they knew it.
Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, saying that the victory did not come through his own efforts but that he had merely served as an instrument of God's wrath.
The Jewish Amoraim attributed the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem as punishment from God for the "baseless hatred" that pervaded Jewish society at the time. Many Jews in despair are thought to have abandoned Judaism for some version of paganism, many others sided with the growing Christian sect within Judaism.
The destruction was an important point in the separation of Christianity from its Jewish roots: many Christians responded by distancing themselves from the rest of Judaism, as reflected in the Gospels which some believe portray Jesus as anti-Temple and view the destruction of the temple as punishment for rejection of Jesus.
The Jewish Amoraim attributed the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem as punishment from God for the "baseless hatred" that pervaded Jewish society at the time. Many Jews in despair are thought to have abandoned Judaism for some version of paganism, many others sided with the growing Christian sect within Judaism.
The destruction was an important point in the separation of Christianity from its Jewish roots: many Christians responded by distancing themselves from the rest of Judaism, as reflected in the Gospels which some believe portray Jesus as anti-Temple and view the destruction of the temple as punishment for rejection of Jesus.
These are the Theologians that I respect, and will eagerly learn from; and YES, I absolutely believe in interpreting the Bible the Bereans way:
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Comentaries on 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:
Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Comentaries on 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:
ARE YOU READY?
I BELIEVE IN KEEPING READY!
Mid-Trib and Post-Trib seem to believe they have time to get ready later.
Speed of the Rapture:
Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (NASB)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet {Wedding Shofar Trumpet}; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[video=youtube;dYgSp5S9-k0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgSp5S9-k0[/video]
Speed of the Second Coming:
Revelation 19:17-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.
I BELIEVE IN KEEPING READY!
Mid-Trib and Post-Trib seem to believe they have time to get ready later.
Speed of the Rapture:
Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (NASB)
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet {Wedding Shofar Trumpet}; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[video=youtube;dYgSp5S9-k0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYgSp5S9-k0[/video]
Speed of the Second Coming:
Revelation 19:17-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.