The Rapture
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Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.
Who was/is the Messiah?
What isn't there is any mention of a gap and an antichrist.
VCO,
You are ignoring the first part of that passage. "THIS IS THE LAST HOUR" not 2,000 years from now!!!!! They were living in the "last hour" of their country. This was the Mosaic Age coming to an end. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with our time in history.
When studying prophesy, first look to see if it has been fulfilled before thinking it's future.
According to Josephus:
AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. - "War 6-6-1."
imperator noun 1.
an absolute or supreme ruler.
So Paul skipped over the ANTICHRIST who took over the second temple which was to happen in his very near future (had he lived), ignoring the destruction and desolation that would be witnessed to many he wrote to and spoke instead of a future third temple some thousands of years later, a third temple that was never prophesied about? Okay, sure, LOL.
FYI, the letters to the Thessalonians where among the FIRST of Paul's letters. These letter were thought to be written around 51-52 AD. Paul was thought to have been beheaded by the Romans under Nero in early 68 AD, so he couldn't have written anything in 75 AD. Nice try though, A for effort.
A beast = an Empire (a world dominating empire) like Babylon, Greece and Rome, etc. Wow.
You are ignoring the first part of that passage. "THIS IS THE LAST HOUR" not 2,000 years from now!!!!! They were living in the "last hour" of their country. This was the Mosaic Age coming to an end. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with our time in history.
When studying prophesy, first look to see if it has been fulfilled before thinking it's future.
According to Josephus:
AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator with the greatest acclamations of joy. - "War 6-6-1."
imperator noun 1.
an absolute or supreme ruler.
So Paul skipped over the ANTICHRIST who took over the second temple which was to happen in his very near future (had he lived), ignoring the destruction and desolation that would be witnessed to many he wrote to and spoke instead of a future third temple some thousands of years later, a third temple that was never prophesied about? Okay, sure, LOL.
FYI, the letters to the Thessalonians where among the FIRST of Paul's letters. These letter were thought to be written around 51-52 AD. Paul was thought to have been beheaded by the Romans under Nero in early 68 AD, so he couldn't have written anything in 75 AD. Nice try though, A for effort.
A beast = an Empire (a world dominating empire) like Babylon, Greece and Rome, etc. Wow.
True Christians will not see God's wrath poured out since we are not appointed unto wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9)
Those scoffers that say Christians will go thru God's wrath to somehow 'purify' the Church are speaking for themselves... The Blood of Jesus makes me clean... but maybe some are not trusting in His Blood so they need to be slapped around awhile
Why do you guys skip over the wrath that came to those who were persecuting them? Paul wrote to the Thessalonians of his day, to give comfort to them. No offense but he wasn't writing to you and he wasn't writing to me or anyone else who would live thousands of years later.
"To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.." See? He was writing to them. What would they care about events thousands of years after they were dead and gone? Would good would that message be to them?
Paul's message was personal.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Who was to be delivered? They were, not you and me. Who is the wrath coming to?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, [SUP]15 [/SUP]who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, [SUP]16 [/SUP]forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
The wrath was to come UPON THEM, not some bad people of our day.
I don't get you people who think Paul's letters were not written to the people he said he was writing them to. Paul specifically wrote to the Thessalonians. He specifically wrote to the Corinthians. He wrote to those in Ephesus and in Galatia, etc.
"Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians..."
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus."
"To the churches of Galatia...
"To the church of God which is at Corinth..."
Obviously there are many lessons for us too but when Paul told them of things that were to come to them, he meant TO THEM, not us!!
.FYI, the wrath came to Jerusalem in 70 AD. The saints were all spared from this wrath.
This idea of a future "antichrist" in a future temple is pure fiction. There have been many bad men since Nero and the Roman emperors, and there are plenty in our day and will be plenty to come.
i did some reading on what the different mainstream views are and my beliefs line up with amillennialism... because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and no one can die there no death its swallowed up in victory praise God
Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!
Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you guys skip over the wrath that came to those who were persecuting them? Paul wrote to the Thessalonians of his day, to give comfort to them. No offense but he wasn't writing to you and he wasn't writing to me or anyone else who would live thousands of years later.
"To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.." See? He was writing to them. What would they care about events thousands of years after they were dead and gone? Would good would that message be to them?
Paul's message was personal.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
Who was to be delivered? They were, not you and me. Who is the wrath coming to?
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, [SUP]15 [/SUP]who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, [SUP]16 [/SUP]forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.
The wrath was to come UPON THEM, not some bad people of our day.
I don't get you people who think Paul's letters were not written to the people he said he was writing them to. Paul specifically wrote to the Thessalonians. He specifically wrote to the Corinthians. He wrote to those in Ephesus and in Galatia, etc.
"Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians..."
"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,To the saints who are in Ephesus."
"To the churches of Galatia...
"To the church of God which is at Corinth..."
Obviously there are many lessons for us too but when Paul told them of things that were to come to them, he meant TO THEM, not us!!
FYI, the wrath came to Jerusalem in 70 AD. The saints were all spared from this wrath.
This idea of a future "antichrist" in a future temple is pure fiction. There have been many bad men since Nero and the Roman emperors, and there are plenty in our day and will be plenty to come.
hi PlainWord i also believe wrath came in 70ad to jerusalem. do you think Jesus is still coming back visibly or not??? i think He is coming back to melt the earth and bring the new heaven and earth but maybe you disagree why and how????? im not arguing i just wanna talk friendly ok???
That was not the wrath of God.. it was merely the opposition of satan who was and is always trying to stop the Gospel from being preached.
That's where you do error...
2 Timothy 3:16
ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
2 Peter 3:3,4
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
Those that believe God has no escape plan for His faithful (which He has done numerous times already across HIStory)... will be shocked to find that they will have to endure the worst time in the history of the earth when they did not have to... that's too bad... for them... they be gonna miss the Marriage Supper of the Lamb!
Good luck with that preterism stuff... you be gonna need it!
You are ripe for deception... satan smiles!
One things about this that is absolutely irrefutable and beyond any argument is this... when the future gets here, we gonna find out!
Until then, speculate all you want if it helps you talk yourself out of the obvious fear that is striking the hearts of man in this hour, today, right now...
hi PlainWord i also believe wrath came in 70ad to jerusalem. do you think Jesus is still coming back visibly or not??? i think He is coming back to melt the earth and bring the new heaven and earth but maybe you disagree why and how????? im not arguing i just wanna talk friendly ok???
Greetings Muzungu256,
The wrath of God, the day of the Lord, that has been prophesied by the OT prophets and the apostles has not yet taken place. It will be a time of unprecedented events of wrath, which will take place via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will decimate the majority of the population of the earth and dismantle all human government. It is important to understand that the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as being two separate events with different purposes.
The next event to take place will be the gathering of the church, which will be followed by the revealing of the antichrist who will establish a seven year covenant with Israel. During this time God will begin to pour out his wrath leading up the Lord's return to end the age. At that time the Lord will establish his millennial kingdom. It is not until the end of the thousand years that the earth and all of the elements will be burned up and that to make way for the new heaven and new earth.
The proper way to read scripture is "if the literal sense makes good sense, then don't seek any other sense." One of the biggest errors by expositors today is applying symbolic or allegorical interpretations to scripture that is meant to be interpreted literally.
Sooooo ..... you believe that we are currently living in the millennial kingdom with Jesus ruling with a rod of iron?
Have you read any of the characteristics of the millennial period? Is the Lion currently eating straw like the ox?
Are the prey and predator animals and their young lying down together in peace? It also states that a young child will lead them around.
Scripture states that during that time, "if a man only lives to be a hundred years old, he will be thought to be accursed and as a mere child." Are we seeing that now?
It also states that a young child will be able to play around the Cobra's den and not be hurt at all. Is that the current status of things?
The above refers to the fact that humans in these bodies with the sinful nature and because this body grows old and dies, cannot inherit the kingdom of God. But, when the resurrection takes place and the living are changed into their immortal and glorified bodies, then we will have heavenly bodies fit for the kingdom of God. (1 Thes.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:42-44, 51-53)
"So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body."
When the dead in Christ are resurrected, it will be in those immortal and glorified bodies. Immediately after they are resurrected, the living in Christ will be transformed into those immortal and glorified bodies with the whole group meeting the Lord in the air. From there the Lord will take the entire church back to the Father's house in fulfillment of John 14:1-3.
Regarding thousand year reign of Christ, it will be a literal thousand years, as it is mentioned six times as such. - Rev.20:1-7
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hi PlainWord i also believe wrath came in 70ad to jerusalem. do you think Jesus is still coming back visibly or not??? i think He is coming back to melt the earth and bring the new heaven and earth but maybe you disagree why and how????? im not arguing i just wanna talk friendly ok???
Nice to hear from you. Glad to hear you already see the truth concerning the wrath which came upon Jerusalem in 70 AD. Yes, I believe Jesus and God will return after he has "put all enemies under His feet." Rev 21-22 show this return. Amen and God bless you!!!
Have you read, "War of the Jews" by Josephus? If not, go read it. It will leave no doubt in your mind that it was the Wrath of God and the Lamb that was poured out upon those wicked Jews in 70 AD because their crimes where so great and so bad it was like the "days of Noah."
Christ came and rescued them. It says so right here!!
"...certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence." WAR 6-5-3.
Your whole premise is a deception. Once Jerusalem is surrounded by armies and God sends fire down to wipe them out, then we will be in the end times. This is the next event on the prophetic calendar.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. [SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
Here are the false prophets Jesus warned about as told by Josephus:
A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes.
Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation.
Whose desolation?????
A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance. Now there was then a great number of false prophets suborned by the tyrants to impose on the people, who denounced this to them, that they should wait for deliverance from God; and this was in order to keep them from deserting, and that they might be buoyed up above fear and care by such hopes.
Thus were the miserable people persuaded by these deceivers, and such as belied God himself; while they did not attend nor give credit to the signs that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation.
Whose desolation?????
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hi Ahwatukee!!!! i know it says all that but it also says of sinner getting a curse at 120 years old and animal sacrifices in the temple. so death is still there in the millennial kingdom, thats why i consider it spiritual. death cant be in the kingdom because its the last enemy to be conquered
look where the saints are in revelation they are in heaven with throne of God.
look where the saints are in revelation they are in heaven with throne of God.
You're not understanding: the gathering of the church takes place prior to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. At that time, the church both dead and living will be changed into those immortal and glorified bodies. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His thousand year kingdom on the earth, the church will return with him already being in their immortal and glorified bodies. The church and the great tribulation saints will have been resurrected and will be ruling with Christ during that thousand years in those immortal and glorified bodies.
The millennial kingdom will be a literal thousand years and should not be interpreted as allegorical/symbolic or spiritual. There will be a literal thousand year reign of Christ on this earth after God's wrath has been poured out, where at the end the Lord returns to the earth and the church with him.
At the time that we receive those immortal and glorified bodies, the following will be true:
"When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
At the time when we receive those immortal and glorified bodies, we can no longer die. For the church, this will take place prior to the first seal being opened.
No, I spend my time reading God's Word as you should be doing as well instead of conspiracy theory nutjobs
There's no doubt that Israel had left their first love like many claiming to be Christians today... and they suffered the destruction of their country over it.
That in no way means God is a liar Who refuses to continue honoring His promise made with Abraham where God swore by Himself because He could swear by no one else... to bless the descendants of Abraham, if they would just let Him.
Those that curse Israel will be cursed, so I wouldn't want to stand very close to you when darkness slaps you around which will happen unless you repent.
You are confused thinking just because some bad things happened back in the day means there will be no great tribulation coming in modern times... the mac daddy of all bad times is just around the corner and you will be left here to suffer thru it and most likely will not survive so have fun with that and be sure and keep yet spacebook page updated so we know how that's working out for ya!
Your whole premise is based on thinking God is a liar which is acting ignorant.
Ignorant is as ignorant does... yer just showin yer backside!
but there are people dying in the 1000 year kingdom. how else is jesus gonna destroy the gog and magog??
train stops.
1 John 2:17-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
THEREFORE the LAST HOUR includes, the world passing away, so it is YOUR perception of time, that is WRONG. ONCE AGAIN, you forgot to read the context, before you made your decision about what the author meant.
There in lies much of your problem. Because you have been programmed into thinking that the Olivet Discourse was discussing some future trauma you failed to see that everything Jesus discussed came within that one generation, just as HE said it would. Josephus merely confirms all the events which Jesus described.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
All what things? How about everything from Mat 24:4-31?
Correct. The faithful ELECT Jews who accepted Him, He spared from His wrath which He then poured out against the faithless, evil and adulterous generation of His day.
What are you talking about? I love Israel and have been there 3 times!!. I feel bad for the many who still have not come to recognize their Messiah, but I support Israel very much. "Judge not, that you be not judged!"
Some bad things???? Read Josephus, it was the worst tribulation any nation would ever endure in all of human history, just as Christ says here:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.
There will never be another period this bad, not even what they suffered under Hitler. More will killed under Hitler but the conditions inside Jerusalem for 3.5 years were worst than the worst ghetto of the 1940s.
Watch it with comments like this. You mock what you don't understand. God makes clear that He will never allow Israel to go through another period of shame like that again. Next time, He will divinely intervene for the sake of His own name as we see in Eze 38-39 and Rev 20.
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How about believing what the BIBLE actually says.
Revelation 19:11-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse. Its rider is called Faithful and True, and He judges and makes war in righteousness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on His head. He had a name written that no one knows except Himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wore a robe stained with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies that were in heaven followed Him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword came from His mouth, so that He might strike the nations with it. He will shepherd them with an iron scepter. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel standing on the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of commanders, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with him the false prophet, who had performed the signs in his presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Colossians 1:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
ALL THINGS, certainly includes the cells of the human body.
What happens if HE speaks a command that lets go of HIS holding those cells together?
Revelation 14:19-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So the angel swung his sickle toward earth and gathered the grapes from earth’s vineyard, and he threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Then the press was trampled outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press up to the horses’ bridles for about 180 miles.
WHO IS LEFT TO REPOPULATE ISRAEL WITH MORTAL HUMAN BEINGS DURING HIS 1000 YEAR REIGN?
Revelation 7:1-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth,
restraining the four winds of the earth so that no wind could blow on the earth
or on the sea or on any tree.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Then I saw another angel, who had the seal of the living God rise up from the east.
He cried out in a loud voice to the four angels who were empowered
to harm the earth and the sea:
[SUP]3[/SUP] “Don’t harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we seal the slaves of our God on their foreheads.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I heard the number of those who were sealed:
144,000 sealed from every tribe of the Israelites:
[SUP]5 [/SUP] 12,000 sealed from the tribe of Judah,
12,000 from the tribe of Reuben,
12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Asher,
12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali,
12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon,
12,000 from the tribe of Levi,
12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun,
12,000 from the tribe of Joseph,
12,000 sealed from the tribe of Benjamin.
Revelation 14:1 (RSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb,
and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name
and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
See how easy it is to understand that way?
Only the human mind tries to complicate it.