The rapture? The comimg of Christ.
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Translation to the word of return not completely self evident;
to return
ἀναλύσῃ (analysē)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 360: To unloose, unloose for departure, depart, return. From ana and luo; to break up, i.e. Depart.
(Biblehub.com)
to return
ἀναλύσῃ (analysē)
Verb - Aorist Subjunctive Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's 360: To unloose, unloose for departure, depart, return. From ana and luo; to break up, i.e. Depart.
(Biblehub.com)
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I mean to say in this verse Jesus interrupts the feast to come and knock at doors.. again, i find that immensely interesting.
And then to think who is He talking to in this verse? He is talking to those that follow Him, you and me!
We are all in the same location at this point in the story.
I personally do not believe in a pre or mid trib. But I try to read, also this thread, without previous convictions that I am looking to support (and yes, also for me that's not always easy).
Just like God guides and teaches us, it is never in the manner we expect or pursue, the human way (proof, cause and effect in our linear way of thinking, and proud way). But there is a lot to learn though! God has not given us secret codes, words and formulas to calculate coming events by. To me that is really coming close to divination
I mean to say in this verse Jesus interrupts the feast to come and knock at doors.. again, i find that immensely interesting.
And then to think who is He talking to in this verse? He is talking to those that follow Him, you and me!
We are all in the same location at this point in the story.
I personally do not believe in a pre or mid trib. But I try to read, also this thread, without previous convictions that I am looking to support (and yes, also for me that's not always easy).
Just like God guides and teaches us, it is never in the manner we expect or pursue, the human way (proof, cause and effect in our linear way of thinking, and proud way). But there is a lot to learn though! God has not given us secret codes, words and formulas to calculate coming events by. To me that is really coming close to divination
And then to think who is He talking to in this verse? He is talking to those that follow Him, you and me!
We are all in the same location at this point in the story.
I personally do not believe in a pre or mid trib. But I try to read, also this thread, without previous convictions that I am looking to support (and yes, also for me that's not always easy).
Just like God guides and teaches us, it is never in the manner we expect or pursue, the human way (proof, cause and effect in our linear way of thinking, and proud way). But there is a lot to learn though! God has not given us secret codes, words and formulas to calculate coming events by. To me that is really coming close to divination
*starting this post I ought to say: -what I understand is- Jesus interrupts the feast to come knock at our doors
*God has not given us secret codes, words etc. to calculate -and understand- coming events by
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No. I've not made that point whatsoever.
[There WILL be people coming to faith in Christ when they find themselves IN the Tribulation Period. They are called "saints" also; just as, at times, members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (that's us) are also called "saints"]
____________
BTW,
neither do I make the points (as many attempt to do), that:
--every usage of the word "ekklesia" refers ONLY EVER TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY". Um, NO!;
--every usage of the word "elect" refers ONLY EVER TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY". Um, NO!
[I *AM* however, saying that "CONTEXT" matters]
[There WILL be people coming to faith in Christ when they find themselves IN the Tribulation Period. They are called "saints" also; just as, at times, members of "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (that's us) are also called "saints"]
____________
BTW,
neither do I make the points (as many attempt to do), that:
--every usage of the word "ekklesia" refers ONLY EVER TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY". Um, NO!;
--every usage of the word "elect" refers ONLY EVER TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY". Um, NO!
[I *AM* however, saying that "CONTEXT" matters]
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I wouldn't say that the word "RETURN" alone, informs anything in particular, but coupled WITH THE REST OF THE CONTEXT, where it says "when he will RETURN FROM THE WEDDING" (THEN says that "the MEAL [G347]" comes after that), that this CORRESPONDS with both Rev19:7 / Rev19:9 [THIS SEQUENCE ALSO] and other related passages.
[the "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" of Rev19:7 is NOT the INVITED "GUESTS" [PLURAL] that Rev19:9 speaks of]
[the "Bride / Wife [SINGULAR]" of Rev19:7 is NOT the INVITED "GUESTS" [PLURAL] that Rev19:9 speaks of]
"IN LIKE MANNER as ye have SEEN HIM traveling up to Heaven" (where the words "IN LIKE MANNER as" refers ONLY to HIM and HOW He will "SO COME" (and that they "SEE" it)... It speaks nothing of the "surrounding circumstances," either way.)
____________
I think it was another thread, where you'd asked (something like): PROVE that the "taken and left" verses speak to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (and NOT to "our Rapture" point in time)... Well, where it says, "and THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL the flood came and took THEM all away"... the "THEY / THEM" is NOT speaking of "NOAH [and crew]". NOAH "knew" and PREPARED AHEAD OF IT, by building the ark as instructed, and he also "knew" 7 days BEFORE the floods came (see Gen7:4).
It was the ones who PERISHED IN THE FLOOD who the text refers to by saying "and THEY knew not UNTIL the flood came, and took THEM all away" (... they had DISREGARDED God's word via Noah! and thus PERISHED in the flood)
In the Lk17 passage, vv.27,29 add this fact, "and destroyed ALL" (THAT is NOT what takes place following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" [to those (unbelievers) left on the earth for the Trib yrs]. NO! Many of them will be coming to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs!)
____________
I think it was another thread, where you'd asked (something like): PROVE that the "taken and left" verses speak to His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (and NOT to "our Rapture" point in time)... Well, where it says, "and THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL the flood came and took THEM all away"... the "THEY / THEM" is NOT speaking of "NOAH [and crew]". NOAH "knew" and PREPARED AHEAD OF IT, by building the ark as instructed, and he also "knew" 7 days BEFORE the floods came (see Gen7:4).
It was the ones who PERISHED IN THE FLOOD who the text refers to by saying "and THEY knew not UNTIL the flood came, and took THEM all away" (... they had DISREGARDED God's word via Noah! and thus PERISHED in the flood)
In the Lk17 passage, vv.27,29 add this fact, "and destroyed ALL" (THAT is NOT what takes place following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" [to those (unbelievers) left on the earth for the Trib yrs]. NO! Many of them will be coming to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs!)
I don't think there will be a 7 year agreement. There will be an agreement that lasts seven years. because Jesus comes back after the seven years and breaks it.
The covenant is made. and Jesus comes back So the covenant only lasts seven years.
The more I think about you the. more it rings true.
He confirm the Covenant with many And it only lasts 7 years. because Jesus comes back and gets us
What does everybody think?
First, do you understand what I'm saying or what I'm getting at
He confirms the covenant and. it only lasts one week. ( 7 years.) because Jesus comes back and collects us.
I think if you're expecting to see a peace deal about seven years long, I think. you're going to be mistaken or surprised
And that will be so good for the pre-tribulation believe in Christians. They won't believe it. because it wasn't for 7 years.
The covenant is made. and Jesus comes back So the covenant only lasts seven years.
The more I think about you the. more it rings true.
He confirm the Covenant with many And it only lasts 7 years. because Jesus comes back and gets us
What does everybody think?
First, do you understand what I'm saying or what I'm getting at
He confirms the covenant and. it only lasts one week. ( 7 years.) because Jesus comes back and collects us.
I think if you're expecting to see a peace deal about seven years long, I think. you're going to be mistaken or surprised
And that will be so good for the pre-tribulation believe in Christians. They won't believe it. because it wasn't for 7 years.
--in Matthew 24:14 / 26:13, the "message" that WILL BE going forth (IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years; that is, FOLLOWING "our Rapture") especially IN THE FIRST HALF (that you seem to have "misplaced" [mislocated]) has the RESULTS of this [msg] SHOWN in Revelation 7:9[,14]... LET the readers COMPARE the wording in both Matt24:14 and Rev7:9; They will be being "INVITED TO" the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (and not "BY us"--WE will not be present on the earth during that time period);
--Paul (in 2Th chpts 1 & 2--in bracketed BOOKENDS, so to speak), Paul is CONTRASTING the TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to IN / DURING / WITHIN the Tribulation Period; I've pointed out how the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" whenever they are used in the SAME CONTEXTS (as they are here also), they ALWAYS refer to the SAME TIME PERIOD;
And I've pointed out how the "IN FLAMING FIRE" of 2Th1:8 and context, refers to A TIME PERIOD (not merely a split second moment, at His Second Coming to the earth), being PARALLEL WORDING to that used in Lam2:3-4 (in the context of WRATH words, there--And note its context / REASONS, in Lam); Likewise, 2Th2:7b-8a is PARALLEL LANGUAGE to that used in Lam2:3... (so many other points I've made in numerous past threads);
--Where Matt24:9 says, "...and ye shall be hated of ALL THE NATIONS," it is speaking of the believing remnant of Israel, who will (at that time) have COME TO FAITH IN CHRIST [IN THE TRIB]... and I've pointed out in past posts that "our Rapture" is a PRIMARY IMPETUS that turns Israel to come to faith in Christ... THEY will be AMONG THE *FIRST* to grasp "what has just happened"... it is is THEY who will be DOING the "INVITING TO" their promised AND PROPHESIED *EARTHLY* Millennial Kingdom age (aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER"... aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]" which will COMMENCE upon His "RETURN" there, TO THE EARTH--"when he will RETURN FROM THE WEDDING" (as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom," not a "TO BE WED" one);
....so YES... Scripture speaks of it... ABUNDANTLY!!!
(the MIS-application of MANY passages, is what prevents one from SEEING ALL that the Scripture HAS TO SAY ABOUT this very thing!!)
--Paul (in 2Th chpts 1 & 2--in bracketed BOOKENDS, so to speak), Paul is CONTRASTING the TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to IN / DURING / WITHIN the Tribulation Period; I've pointed out how the phrases "the Day of the Lord" and "IN THAT DAY" whenever they are used in the SAME CONTEXTS (as they are here also), they ALWAYS refer to the SAME TIME PERIOD;
And I've pointed out how the "IN FLAMING FIRE" of 2Th1:8 and context, refers to A TIME PERIOD (not merely a split second moment, at His Second Coming to the earth), being PARALLEL WORDING to that used in Lam2:3-4 (in the context of WRATH words, there--And note its context / REASONS, in Lam); Likewise, 2Th2:7b-8a is PARALLEL LANGUAGE to that used in Lam2:3... (so many other points I've made in numerous past threads);
--Where Matt24:9 says, "...and ye shall be hated of ALL THE NATIONS," it is speaking of the believing remnant of Israel, who will (at that time) have COME TO FAITH IN CHRIST [IN THE TRIB]... and I've pointed out in past posts that "our Rapture" is a PRIMARY IMPETUS that turns Israel to come to faith in Christ... THEY will be AMONG THE *FIRST* to grasp "what has just happened"... it is is THEY who will be DOING the "INVITING TO" their promised AND PROPHESIED *EARTHLY* Millennial Kingdom age (aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER"... aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]" which will COMMENCE upon His "RETURN" there, TO THE EARTH--"when he will RETURN FROM THE WEDDING" (as an ALREADY-WED "Bridegroom," not a "TO BE WED" one);
....so YES... Scripture speaks of it... ABUNDANTLY!!!
(the MIS-application of MANY passages, is what prevents one from SEEING ALL that the Scripture HAS TO SAY ABOUT this very thing!!)
^ the ALREADY-AWARDED saints are shown UP IN HEAVEN, saying, "hast redeemed US to God BY THY BLOOD out-of EVERY..." (Rev5:9) *BEFORE* the FIRST SEAL will be opened by Christ, when He will "STAND to JUDGE" Rev5:6 (Isa3:13)... and the SEALS *ARE* "the beginning of birth PANGS" at the START of the 7-yr Tribulation Period which will thereafter unfold upon the earth (this MEANS that "Matt24:4-8 / Mk13:5-8 / Lk21:8-11"--"the beginning of birth PANGS" are what FOLLOW "our Rapture").
So, YES THERE IS!
So, YES THERE IS!
Pre Trib rapture.
Please show me from the Bible without twisting any verses that Jesus will cause people to disappear before He returns in glory??.
Clear bible verses please.
Don't use Matt 24, Luke 17, because it proves the opposite.
Bible verses that say people will be secretly be raptured.. secretly disappear,
Years before Jesus returns.
I isn't in my Bible.
Please show me from the Bible without twisting any verses that Jesus will cause people to disappear before He returns in glory??.
Clear bible verses please.
Don't use Matt 24, Luke 17, because it proves the opposite.
Bible verses that say people will be secretly be raptured.. secretly disappear,
Years before Jesus returns.
I isn't in my Bible.
If you've read carefully my posts, you would see what I wrote regarding this, where I'd put (under the second bullet point in my Post #292):
So when you examine the texts I'm pointing out, here ^ ...
...ONE of those TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" people will be coming to, IN the Trib yrs, is THIS (Paul says--of certain ones), "...God SHALL SEND to THEM strong delusion, SO THAT *THEY* should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI"... 2Th2:10-12 ("*BECAUSE*," it says, "they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth that they might be saved"--These are ones who had hardened their hearts to the truth, and thus God hardens their hearts even further [LIKE what happened to Pharaoh, Ex8], in that, "God SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion, SO THAT they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" in the Trib yrs);
--however, it won't be the case that 100% of the unsaved people (having missed the rapture) will be sent this "strong delusion" by God; the ones that He won't be doing that to, are the ones who WON'T have hardened their hearts (as the others will have)--and GOD KNOWS which is which; Paul is showing the CONTRAST between these two OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to, FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they find themselves IN the time-period we commonly call "the Tribulation Period"--the 7 years immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19);
There are numerous passages showing the saints who will exist on the earth at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (who never "lift off" the earth, but are PRESENT THERE when He RETURNS there);
...the ones "still-living" will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (as the only ones who will have the capacity to produce offspring / bear children... grandchildren and so forth...);
...the saints who DIE / are KILLED during the Trib years (the LAST "saints" to have DIED prior to the MK age commencing) will be "resurrected [which is biblically-defined as "to stand again" (on the earth)]"... FOR the earthly MK age--IOW, there will be NO "SAINTS" who will be MISSING, ALL will be PRESENT *FOR* the MK age... ALL "saints" (of ALL time periods) will be present there to enjoy it! (Mt8:11, etc... [OT saints... TRIB saints...]).
We, "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," will have returned to the earth "WITH [G4862--UNIONed-with] Him" (Rev19) and will be present there for "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (which IS the earthly MK age, or at least its INAUGURATION. I don't believe *we* will necessarily be "limited" to that sphere [during the MK age]). Whereas the "saints" who come to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years, will be the INVITED "GUESTS [PLURAL]," etc... ("HAVING BEEN INVITED [perfect indicative, Rv19:9]" all throughout the TRIB yrs... BY the believing remnant of Israel, who will have ALSO come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture," and early on in the Trib yrs)
So, I wouldn't exactly call it "a second CHANCE".
Though some [many, actually] WILL BE coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (... certain OTHER ones will be sent "STRONG DELUSION" during that SAME TIME PERIOD / the Trib yrs).
So when you examine the texts I'm pointing out, here ^ ...
...ONE of those TWO OPPOSITE "beliefs" people will be coming to, IN the Trib yrs, is THIS (Paul says--of certain ones), "...God SHALL SEND to THEM strong delusion, SO THAT *THEY* should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI"... 2Th2:10-12 ("*BECAUSE*," it says, "they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth that they might be saved"--These are ones who had hardened their hearts to the truth, and thus God hardens their hearts even further [LIKE what happened to Pharaoh, Ex8], in that, "God SHALL SEND TO THEM strong delusion, SO THAT they should believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" in the Trib yrs);
--however, it won't be the case that 100% of the unsaved people (having missed the rapture) will be sent this "strong delusion" by God; the ones that He won't be doing that to, are the ones who WON'T have hardened their hearts (as the others will have)--and GOD KNOWS which is which; Paul is showing the CONTRAST between these two OPPOSITE "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to, FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (when they find themselves IN the time-period we commonly call "the Tribulation Period"--the 7 years immediately preceding and LEADING UP TO His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19);
There are numerous passages showing the saints who will exist on the earth at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (who never "lift off" the earth, but are PRESENT THERE when He RETURNS there);
...the ones "still-living" will ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies (as the only ones who will have the capacity to produce offspring / bear children... grandchildren and so forth...);
...the saints who DIE / are KILLED during the Trib years (the LAST "saints" to have DIED prior to the MK age commencing) will be "resurrected [which is biblically-defined as "to stand again" (on the earth)]"... FOR the earthly MK age--IOW, there will be NO "SAINTS" who will be MISSING, ALL will be PRESENT *FOR* the MK age... ALL "saints" (of ALL time periods) will be present there to enjoy it! (Mt8:11, etc... [OT saints... TRIB saints...]).
We, "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY," will have returned to the earth "WITH [G4862--UNIONed-with] Him" (Rev19) and will be present there for "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (which IS the earthly MK age, or at least its INAUGURATION. I don't believe *we* will necessarily be "limited" to that sphere [during the MK age]). Whereas the "saints" who come to faith IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib years, will be the INVITED "GUESTS [PLURAL]," etc... ("HAVING BEEN INVITED [perfect indicative, Rv19:9]" all throughout the TRIB yrs... BY the believing remnant of Israel, who will have ALSO come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture," and early on in the Trib yrs)
So, I wouldn't exactly call it "a second CHANCE".
Though some [many, actually] WILL BE coming to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (... certain OTHER ones will be sent "STRONG DELUSION" during that SAME TIME PERIOD / the Trib yrs).