The Rapture Event
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I’m asking where in the Bible this whole idea you’re telling me is taught. I’d like to look into the scriptures that teach this
I’m asking where in the Bible this whole idea you’re telling me is taught. I’d like to look into the scriptures that teach this
I’m asking where in the Bible this whole idea you’re telling me is taught. I’d like to look into the scriptures that teach this[/QUOTE]
And again I'm asking if you are referring to the fulfillment of the 7 festivals, or also the other stuff I said. I already told you the last 2 things are my opinion
And again I'm asking if you are referring to the fulfillment of the 7 festivals, or also the other stuff I said. I already told you the last 2 things are my opinion
“Keep in mind that Jesus, when he was warning Israel about his Coming, was speaking to a nation that was in the thralls of backsliding. “
yeah but that doesn’t hold water
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
This is something he taught them and sent to everyone all nations. It’s why Paul and Peter both still taught it afterwards the gospel hasn’t changed and never will it’s going to be the same word of Christ to the end for everyone
The truth is even Jesus didn’t know while he was on earth he said he didn’t
“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. ( <this is the point take heed , watch because you don’t know could come anytime )
For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
Mark 13:32-37 KJV
where do you think Paul’s teaching there about not sleeping and watching and a thief in the back for came from friend ? It’s in the gospel they preached
Some are missing the whole point it’s part of the doctrine to hear him and believe . Ot creates faith in us according to his word and design . We’re meant to believe it’s imminent because it causes us who really do believe the word to press into obedience like a pressure cocker
Jesus will return at the end of the world no one knows the day or time of that but again it all returns back to what he had said about all theses things were meant to hear and believe not reject and reinvent
And again I'm asking if you are referring to the fulfillment of the 7 festivals, or also the other stuff I said. I already told you the last 2 things are my opinion[/QUOTE]
never mind friend God bless
I don't mind showing you the fulfillment of the festivals in scripture.
Christ, the lamb of God, was slain on Passover. He laid dead during unleavened bread, which is called the bread of affliction.
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 Corinthians 5:7-8
He was raised from the dead on firstfruitsBut now Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1 Corinthians 15:20
The law of the old covenant was given on Mt Sinai on the day of Pentecost. The law of the new covenant was poured out on Pentecost fulfilling the type. 'Fully come' below means to fully fill completelyAnd when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 2:1
The day of atonement began to be fulfilled when Christ entered into the holiest place to make reconciliation for his people. We await his exit from the heavenly sanctuary at which point the fulfillment of the day of atonement will be completeWherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. Hebrews 2:17
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. Hebrews 4:14
That leaves 2 festivals yet to be completed: Trumpets and Tabernacles
The day of trumpets means the day of clamor. So it will be a time of great commotion and noise. The people were told to walk around blowing trumpets and banging pots and stuff to make noise and commotion on that day. So the blowing of the 7th trumpet to get the whole world's attention that the return of Christ is imminent fits nicely with the fulfillment of the type.
Tabernacles was a time of joy and rest from the year's labors, which will be fulfilled when God's people rest from their earthly labors in incorruptible bodies
randyk----this subject your talking about is way above your pay grade ---you are not there in your Faith walk to have the understanding of this subject and your spouting wrong understanding -----
You just think your idea is right ---but it is not --we are to rightly divide the Word of God ---and your wrongly dividing the Word as I have pointed out to you with scripture -----
Note >You are one of these people who don't want to get the truth of Scripture ---you just want to make scripture say what you want it to say -------and make your belief right--your more interested in being RIGHT than you are seeking Truth from the Scripture -----
so good luck with your wrong belief about the time of the Rapture and the 2nd coming -----
1 Thessalonian 5 ----about the thief in the night ----this is talking about the Saints beings ready for the -the immanent coming of Jesus for His Church -----the Rapture ---being Rapture Ready =====
Berean Study Bible
like a thief in the night
This simile is a vivid illustration of the unexpected and sudden nature of the Lord's coming.
The imagery here is meant to convey the element of surprise and the need for vigilance. Jesus Himself used similar language in the Gospels (e.g., Matthew 24:43), reinforcing the idea that believers must always be prepared, living in a state of spiritual alertness and moral integrity. This phrase serves as a call to readiness, urging Christians to live faithfully and expectantly, knowing that the Lord's return could happen at any moment.
I've explained the need for vigilance from a Postrib pov. There are those who would obstruct us and divert us from doing what God would have us to do. There are false teachers and false prophets--we need to watch out for temptations. We may not know the precise schedule and calendar date of Christ's Return, but that doesn't mean we know nothing. It doesn't mean we can't see preliminary signs of something coming around the corner. And it certainly doesn't mean that Christ can come on "any day in history.*
The Feast of Trumpets has another interesting name - The Day and the Hour No Man Knows
Why Is the Feast of Trumpets Known as the “Hidden” Day
Yom Teruah was to be celebrated on the first day of the seventh Hebrew month (known as Tishri in Hebrew), our September/October. In biblical times, a Hebrew month was either 29 or 30 days, and determining those days depended on the moon cycle. As the moon began to wane from the previous month (Elul, in Hebrew), anyone watching the evening sky could know the general time frame that the next month, Tishri, would begin—they just didn’t know the exact day. Once two witnesses confirmed that the first sliver of the new moon was visible, the month of Tishri began—and thus, the first fall feast: Yom Teruah. Because the exact start of Yom Teruah was unknown, several other idioms for this feast developed over time, two of which are “The Hidden Day” and “The Day and the Hour No Man Knows.”
https://icejusa.org/2023/08/02/understanding-the-feast-of-trumpets-yom-teruah/
Why Is the Feast of Trumpets Known as the “Hidden” Day
Yom Teruah was to be celebrated on the first day of the seventh Hebrew month (known as Tishri in Hebrew), our September/October. In biblical times, a Hebrew month was either 29 or 30 days, and determining those days depended on the moon cycle. As the moon began to wane from the previous month (Elul, in Hebrew), anyone watching the evening sky could know the general time frame that the next month, Tishri, would begin—they just didn’t know the exact day. Once two witnesses confirmed that the first sliver of the new moon was visible, the month of Tishri began—and thus, the first fall feast: Yom Teruah. Because the exact start of Yom Teruah was unknown, several other idioms for this feast developed over time, two of which are “The Hidden Day” and “The Day and the Hour No Man Knows.”
https://icejusa.org/2023/08/02/understanding-the-feast-of-trumpets-yom-teruah/
The historical context matters, I think. Jesus was predicting the end of Jewish Religion under the Law, including the fall of the Temple and the fall of Jerusalem itself. The nation would be cast aside and into all nations, the beginning of an age-long Diaspora.
And so, in Jesus' own generation he saw this coming, and implored those on the fence to maintain vigil, lest they be swept away by Rabbinic Judaism. In fact, many Jews were robbed of their faith in Jesus, simply because those who did not believe were so dominant at the time.
This is why Jesus focused so much on "watching" at that time, because judgment was right around the corner. It's like guards on a wall were watching out for an invading army. That was literally going to happen!
Jesus portrayed his Coming in this light. Not only was he coming to judge the world at the end of the age, but he was at that point prepared to judge Israel imminently. So in a sense he was coming in judgment in that very generation, and not just at the end of the age. He was exhorting Jews to exercise their faith in him and in God's righteousness, so that they are not overtaken by evil.
Rev 2.16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 3.3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Was Christ referring to the festival of trumpets when he said this?
But of that day and hour no man knoweth , no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32
“I think. Jesus was predicting the end of Jewish Religion under the Law, including the fall of the Temple and the fall of Jerusalem itself.”
This part is about that
“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!”
Matthew 23:34-37 KJV
What I quoted is about Jesus return from heaven teaching us to at no one knows the day he will return from heaven
Or Matthew 24? Also partly aboit Jerusalems desolation and destruction of the temple but partly about his return at the end of the world because they ask him both questions
“ when will the temple and city be destroyed ? And what about your coming and the end of the world ?
Jesus is answering both questions the one about Jerusalems demise and the other about his return
I agree and with what your posting and your wrong belief that you are spouting here ----
I say -------your one of these -----anyone wrongly dividing the word is a false Teacher -----
using your quote here ------
There are those who would obstruct us and divert us ----
I say ---your doing just that by not correctly following the word
There are false teachers and false prophets--we need to watch out for temptations.[/QUOTE]
I say ----By wrongly dividing the Word we fall into the false teacher category -----
Scripture clearly and plainly teaches about the Rapture and end times ------
But here is the thing --the Holy Spirit feed the person only what they can understand and handle -----I think your still on MILK --and not ready for the Meat of the Scripture yet and there lies your problem of understanding with this subject you post-----maybe your still a babe in Christ ??????????????? and this subject is beyond your understanding and other False Teachers have influenced your thinking on this subject -----rely on the Holy Spirit who is the only one who can give you the truth behind the words printed ----
There is the Logos Word and there there is the Rhema Word which is the Spoken Word ----do some research on the Rhema Word ----which is given by and through the Holy Spirit ----
.
I've watched a number of films pertaining to the rapture and every one of
them left out the part where the remains of 2,000 years of deceased
believers from all over the globe will be restored to life.
The films also left out the part where folks unified with Christ rise into the air
to meet him. Instead the films showed them here one second and gone the
next, but I rather suspect the event should be easily observed all 'round the
world if it proceeds as described by 1Thess 4:13-17 because 2,000 years of
believers added to the world's current believers, will likely construct a flash
mob resembling a mini Oort Cloud when they all levitate together at one time
to rendezvous with the Lord up in the sky.
The mob is likely to get pretty noisy too what with all the cheering, laughing,
and shouting that's sure to take place when Jesus' followers receive their
new bodies; which of course will be immune to death and the aging process.
(1Cor 15:51-53)
* The "blink" element of the rapture pertains to the miraculous
transformation that Jesus' followers will undergo during the event. (1Cor
15:51-52)
The films also showed tiny children being taken while their parents are left
behind. That's highly doubtful because minors have often been collateral
damage in the Bible when God slammed their parents, e.g. zero children
survived the Flood, and 120,00 would've been lost had God found it
necessary to follow thru with His threat to annihilate Nineveh. (Jonah 4:11)
One of the films depicted a Christian pastor left behind and to him it was no
mystery. He frankly admitted to being a career minister rather than a called
minister, i.e. he was a man of business rather than a man of faith. In real
life, there will likely be quite a few like him miss the cut because numbers of
men coming out of seminaries take up the cloth as a career rather than due
to a longing to be of use to Christ.
I once heard a retired pastor say on radio that if the rapture were to occur
Saturday, quite a few churches would have no members missing Sunday
morning. That's a strong possibility as some card-carrying, church-attending
Christians, are so because it rounds out the week and it looks good on a
social resumé
NOTE: People shouldn't let the rapture cause them panic because it isn't the
end of the world. Folks who miss the cut can still get themselves spared
retribution and perdition, viz: it's not like all hope is lost. In point of fact,
vast numbers of folks from all over the globe will be spared during the
interlude between the rapture and Christ's physical return to set up the
kingdom conditions foretold by the prophets in the old testament. (Rev 7:9-14)
However, the rapture terminates the church age so folks saved during the
the time of Jacob's trouble won't become members of Christ's family circle.
But hey; is a friend of the family such a bad deal when we take into
consideration the final option?
_
I've watched a number of films pertaining to the rapture and every one of
them left out the part where the remains of 2,000 years of deceased
believers from all over the globe will be restored to life.
The films also left out the part where folks unified with Christ rise into the air
to meet him. Instead the films showed them here one second and gone the
next, but I rather suspect the event should be easily observed all 'round the
world if it proceeds as described by 1Thess 4:13-17 because 2,000 years of
believers added to the world's current believers, will likely construct a flash
mob resembling a mini Oort Cloud when they all levitate together at one time
to rendezvous with the Lord up in the sky.
The mob is likely to get pretty noisy too what with all the cheering, laughing,
and shouting that's sure to take place when Jesus' followers receive their
new bodies; which of course will be immune to death and the aging process.
(1Cor 15:51-53)
* The "blink" element of the rapture pertains to the miraculous
transformation that Jesus' followers will undergo during the event. (1Cor
15:51-52)
The films also showed tiny children being taken while their parents are left
behind. That's highly doubtful because minors have often been collateral
damage in the Bible when God slammed their parents, e.g. zero children
survived the Flood, and 120,00 would've been lost had God found it
necessary to follow thru with His threat to annihilate Nineveh. (Jonah 4:11)
One of the films depicted a Christian pastor left behind and to him it was no
mystery. He frankly admitted to being a career minister rather than a called
minister, i.e. he was a man of business rather than a man of faith. In real
life, there will likely be quite a few like him miss the cut because numbers of
men coming out of seminaries take up the cloth as a career rather than due
to a longing to be of use to Christ.
I once heard a retired pastor say on radio that if the rapture were to occur
Saturday, quite a few churches would have no members missing Sunday
morning. That's a strong possibility as some card-carrying, church-attending
Christians, are so because it rounds out the week and it looks good on a
social resumé
NOTE: People shouldn't let the rapture cause them panic because it isn't the
end of the world. Folks who miss the cut can still get themselves spared
retribution and perdition, viz: it's not like all hope is lost. In point of fact,
vast numbers of folks from all over the globe will be spared during the
interlude between the rapture and Christ's physical return to set up the
kingdom conditions foretold by the prophets in the old testament. (Rev 7:9-14)
However, the rapture terminates the church age so folks saved during the
the time of Jacob's trouble won't become members of Christ's family circle.
But hey; is a friend of the family such a bad deal when we take into
consideration the final option?
_
Before the bridegroom was delayed in the Virgin parable all the virgins were prompted to go out to meet the groom because they were told he is coming. He wasn't coming because he was delayed. But all 10 were obedient in going out to meet him
Yes, I know. We are looking at this from different points of view. I'm saying that Jesus was discouraging Christians from factoring into our lifestyle calendar dates or the importance of precisely when certain events would take place. It was more important to focus on Christ in heaven at all times, to preserve our fidelity and obedience.
You seem to be using the lack of a calendar date and established schedule to emphasize the unpredictability of when Christ would come, which I don't think is the focus at all. I do recognize, with you, that Christ's specific time of Coming is precluded. But that doesn't mean all events are unpredictable, or even that Christ's Coming isn't relatively predictable in an approximate time context.
The whole idea of prophecy is to provide us with divine insight into our specific historical context so that we may deal with events without being overwhelmed and trapped in sudden unpredictable events. So we are, I think, given signposts to guide us, even if a specific syllabus is not given to us.
So why are we told that Christ's Coming itself is not to be specifically predicted on a certain date? It is because, I think, we are not to live in a too-specifically "guided" manner. We are not to live by soothsayers and crystal balls--not even if they appear as Christian "prophecy." The focus is to be on our keeping our "minds on things above," so that we live by the Spirit, and not by calendar dates.
Pilgrimshope said:
Yes, I think Jesus was referring, primarily, to the fall of Jerusalem (70 AD), but addressed, as well, his eschatological Coming. He was directing the focus not on eschatological speculations, but rather, on how he was "coming in judgment" in the more immediate circumstances of Israel's current sins. My opinion...
I'm not sure what your concern here is? The parable is given in the context of Israel while she was still under the Law. At that time, Israel was not yet the "Bride," but only servant-maids of God. They were to be awaiting the coming of Messiah, who would betroth Israel to God forever, as opposed to an endless series of national failures and deportations.
It is significant that only 50% of the servant women were able to properly prepare for the coming of the Groom. Israel, at the time, was in the "Valley of Decision," either adopting a continual fire in their soul, ie the Gospel, or depending on only a temporary moral code, namely the Law.
I don't quite agree with everything you're stating here, but you make a good point. A lot of Christianity today is "professional" or half-hearted. It is often a lukewarm or compromised church that we see. Nominal Christianity characterizes the vast number of Christians in the world today, because it is only the "few" who walk down the "narrow way."
Consequently, I think the Rapture may not be so visible as you seem to think? Will there be faith on earth at the time of Jesus' Return? Certainly there will be, but in a much-diminished form.
I think, therefore, the Rapture will be relatively unrecognized, and not as the movies predict. The rising of the dead will simply be a gathering of deceased human spirits already in heaven into new glorified bodies. The "gathering" Jesus spoke of to his Disciples is the gathering of *living souls,* who may be arranged to be in places where they will not obviously disappear from their physical bodies. It's purely speculative, though I completely believe in it. It certainly happened to Enoch and to Elijah that way.
.
The Ten Virgins (Matt 25:1-13)
It's commonly supposed that the five unwise girls were faulted for not
bringing along enough oil for their light sources. That may be true, but I
rather suspect that their mistake was scarcely related to the oil and mostly
related to abandoning their posts.
Had they stuck to their guns (so to speak) they could've joined the
procession along with everyone else. They may have endured a measure of
chagrin for letting their lamps go out, but at least they wouldn't miss the
party.
In other words; they let something relatively minor distract their attention
from something far more important; sort of like Nero concerning himself
with trifles while Rome was on fire all 'round the city.
● Matt 25:10-12 . . While they were on their way to buy the oil, the
bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the
wedding banquet. And the door was shut. Later the others also came. Sir!
Sir! --they said-- Open the door for us! But he replied: I tell you the truth, I
don't know you.
The thing is: while the entrance was open, the general public was welcome
to come on in and join the celebration, but once the door was shut and
festivities commenced, late arrivals were permitted inside only if they were
the bridegroom's friends; which emphasizes that the invitation, though
generous, offered a limited window of opportunity which if missed, was lost
forever.
NOTE: It's commonly proposed the oil in the parable of the Ten Virgins
relates to the Holy Spirit, but had the five girls returned with the Holy Spirit,
the groom would've readily allowed them entrance because the Spirit is
depicted in the Bible as a credential validating one's inclusion in Christ's
family circle. (Rom 8:9, 2Cor 1:21-22, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30)
_
The Ten Virgins (Matt 25:1-13)
It's commonly supposed that the five unwise girls were faulted for not
bringing along enough oil for their light sources. That may be true, but I
rather suspect that their mistake was scarcely related to the oil and mostly
related to abandoning their posts.
Had they stuck to their guns (so to speak) they could've joined the
procession along with everyone else. They may have endured a measure of
chagrin for letting their lamps go out, but at least they wouldn't miss the
party.
In other words; they let something relatively minor distract their attention
from something far more important; sort of like Nero concerning himself
with trifles while Rome was on fire all 'round the city.
● Matt 25:10-12 . . While they were on their way to buy the oil, the
bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the
wedding banquet. And the door was shut. Later the others also came. Sir!
Sir! --they said-- Open the door for us! But he replied: I tell you the truth, I
don't know you.
The thing is: while the entrance was open, the general public was welcome
to come on in and join the celebration, but once the door was shut and
festivities commenced, late arrivals were permitted inside only if they were
the bridegroom's friends; which emphasizes that the invitation, though
generous, offered a limited window of opportunity which if missed, was lost
forever.
NOTE: It's commonly proposed the oil in the parable of the Ten Virgins
relates to the Holy Spirit, but had the five girls returned with the Holy Spirit,
the groom would've readily allowed them entrance because the Spirit is
depicted in the Bible as a credential validating one's inclusion in Christ's
family circle. (Rom 8:9, 2Cor 1:21-22, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30)
_