The Rapture Doctrine.....Truth or Fiction?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Randy4u2c

Active member
#1
Sep 13, 2022
165
76
28
#1
My first concern on the subject is that the word "rapture" isn't found anywhere in the new testament. It is a man made doctrine based on the mistranslation of I Thess 4:13-18. The subject is in verses 13-14. You are not to be ignorant concerning those that fell asleep (died) believing in Christ. If you believe Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Those that died in Jesus were raised with him and are now in heaven with God. He is not the God of the dead, but the living. 15- We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Why? Because they have already risen. 16- For the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Why? Because they are already there. 17- Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We which remain until the Lord's coming, at the last or 7th trump, will be gathered in the cloud of angels which will return with him. It doesn't mean a cloud in the sky, but a cloud of witnesses. We will meet him in the air, which is to say a spiritual body that we are all changed into at his coming. Air doesn't mean atmosphere, but the breath of life body that God breathed into Adam. I Cor 15:35-54 explains that we have two bodies, the flesh natural body and the spiritual body that we are changed into at the last Trump. 51,52-
I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, at the LAST TRUMP, for the trump shall sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible (because they are already there), and we (that remain) shall be changed (into that spiritual body). No one is going to fly away to escape the tribulation of Satan (son of perdition/antichrist), when he comes claiming to be God, II Thess 2:1-4. It is our job to stand against him and expose his lies, Mark 13:9-11. Don't be deceived by false doctrines. Study to show yourself approved and make the stand against the devil, Eph 6:11-17. May God give you eyes to see and understand.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#2
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#2
I think most doctrine is true.

Its just never true in the way people think it is. Or the way they teach it.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#3
Jul 2, 2011
21,425
6,704
113
#3
Randy4u2c said:
My first concern on the subject is that the word "rapture" isn't found anywhere in the new testament. It is a man made doctrine based on the mistranslation of I Thess 4:13-18. The subject is in verses 13-14. You are not to be ignorant concerning those that fell asleep (died) believing in Christ. If you believe Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Those that died in Jesus were raised with him and are now in heaven with God. He is not the God of the dead, but the living. 15- We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Why? Because they have already risen. 16- For the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Why? Because they are already there. 17- Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We which remain until the Lord's coming, at the last or 7th trump, will be gathered in the cloud of angels which will return with him. It doesn't mean a cloud in the sky, but a cloud of witnesses. We will meet him in the air, which is to say a spiritual body that we are all changed into at his coming. Air doesn't mean atmosphere, but the breath of life body that God breathed into Adam. I Cor 15:35-54 explains that we have two bodies, the flesh natural body and the spiritual body that we are changed into at the last Trump. 51,52-
I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, at the LAST TRUMP, for the trump shall sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible (because they are already there), and we (that remain) shall be changed (into that spiritual body). No one is going to fly away to escape the tribulation of Satan (son of perdition/antichrist), when he comes claiming to be God, II Thess 2:1-4. It is our job to stand against him and expose his lies, Mark 13:9-11. Don't be deceived by false doctrines. Study to show yourself approved and make the stand against the devil, Eph 6:11-17. May God give you eyes to see and understand.
Click to expand...
It seems all who use that term are confusing it with the resurrection which is coming for us all, those who sleep first then we who ae alive yet dead in Yeshua.
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#4
Mar 18, 2021
5,300
3,129
113
#4
Randy4u2c said:
My first concern on the subject is that the word "rapture" isn't found anywhere in the new testament. It is a man made doctrine based on the mistranslation of I Thess 4:13-18. The subject is in verses 13-14. You are not to be ignorant concerning those that fell asleep (died) believing in Christ. If you believe Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Those that died in Jesus were raised with him and are now in heaven with God. He is not the God of the dead, but the living. 15- We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Why? Because they have already risen. 16- For the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Why? Because they are already there. 17- Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We which remain until the Lord's coming, at the last or 7th trump, will be gathered in the cloud of angels which will return with him. It doesn't mean a cloud in the sky, but a cloud of witnesses. We will meet him in the air, which is to say a spiritual body that we are all changed into at his coming. Air doesn't mean atmosphere, but the breath of life body that God breathed into Adam. I Cor 15:35-54 explains that we have two bodies, the flesh natural body and the spiritual body that we are changed into at the last Trump. 51,52-
I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, at the LAST TRUMP, for the trump shall sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible (because they are already there), and we (that remain) shall be changed (into that spiritual body). No one is going to fly away to escape the tribulation of Satan (son of perdition/antichrist), when he comes claiming to be God, II Thess 2:1-4. It is our job to stand against him and expose his lies, Mark 13:9-11. Don't be deceived by false doctrines. Study to show yourself approved and make the stand against the devil, Eph 6:11-17. May God give you eyes to see and understand.
Click to expand...
You won't find "missionary" in the Bible either. That word comes from the Latin translation and it really means apostle. "Rapture" is of a similar origin.

I beg to differ with your interpretation. No one will be resisting the antichrist. Either they will submit or be killed. My understanding is that the real believers will be taken up before the tribulation. There are many who are church goers or who know about Jesus. They will have an opportunity to get real, and pay the price, or turn away completely and be judged accordingly.

Is my understanding correct? I will find out one day, hopefully soon. It is possible to argue for many different interpretations while still remaining biblical. You may be right. You may not be right. It will happen according to God's plan and purpose no matter what we believe.
 
Blade

Blade

Well-known member
#5
Nov 19, 2019
1,776
624
113
#5
Thanks but its not the word of God telling me "cloud" really means cloud of witnesses though its org "clouds". Nor "air" doesn't mean atmosphere, but the breath of life body that God breathed into Adam. I've been searching out side of what I own and I could have missed it but I can't find that verse really means or translated "breath of life body that God breathed into Adam".

Which event are we talking about? Well for me no where does it say hint at Matt 24 1st Thess 4 17 are the same. Oh yes kinda for sure. Granted both leave out some things. I really doubt GOD just forgot in both cases. One the world sees Him no shout no voice He both times comes in the clouds as the angels said He would return the same way He went up. Angels gather the other no angels. Angels gather " from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ". So "four winds from one end of heaven to the other" really means the earth I gather? Sure we went this far why not. I can keep going but I think we see where I am going here.

See I don't read look at this based on how I personally believe. Yes I can fully agree I see the same exact think you do. Why can't it be the same event? It can. Why can not it not be 2 events? We are telling Christ what He really said meant in His word? Some are doing this very thing. See I don't just stop here I must take into account other verses and then these to events for me do not match.

Body.. when we die and go to be with Him.. I believe in paradise. Are we as He is or is that still coming? No one that has died and are with Him are as He is. Our body is still flesh on this earth. I die my spirit goes to be with Him but my flesh goes back to where it came from. Those tow still have to be put together from what I read.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#6
Mar 21, 2015
3,881
1,231
113
Australia
#6
The rapture, is it truth or fiction?
If the rapture is the coming of Jesus to gather the saved it is truth. If it is a secret gathering it is fiction.
If the rapture is the raising of the dead when Jesus comes in glory it is truth.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#7
Dec 20, 2017
9,385
5,724
113
#7
It's The Resurrection and it's true. If we went back to calling it what it is, it would be far less confusing.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#8
Feb 22, 2021
3,209
1,611
113
Midwest
#8
Subhumanoidal

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
#9
Sep 17, 2018
4,057
3,170
113
#9
Randy4u2c said:
My first concern on the subject is that the word "rapture" isn't found anywhere in the new testament. It is a man made doctrine based on the mistranslation of I Thess 4:13-18. The subject is in verses 13-14. You are not to be ignorant concerning those that fell asleep (died) believing in Christ. If you believe Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. Those that died in Jesus were raised with him and are now in heaven with God. He is not the God of the dead, but the living. 15- We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. Why? Because they have already risen. 16- For the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Why? Because they are already there. 17- Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. We which remain until the Lord's coming, at the last or 7th trump, will be gathered in the cloud of angels which will return with him. It doesn't mean a cloud in the sky, but a cloud of witnesses. We will meet him in the air, which is to say a spiritual body that we are all changed into at his coming. Air doesn't mean atmosphere, but the breath of life body that God breathed into Adam. I Cor 15:35-54 explains that we have two bodies, the flesh natural body and the spiritual body that we are changed into at the last Trump. 51,52-
I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep (die), but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, at the LAST TRUMP, for the trump shall sound and the dead will be raised incorruptible (because they are already there), and we (that remain) shall be changed (into that spiritual body). No one is going to fly away to escape the tribulation of Satan (son of perdition/antichrist), when he comes claiming to be God, II Thess 2:1-4. It is our job to stand against him and expose his lies, Mark 13:9-11. Don't be deceived by false doctrines. Study to show yourself approved and make the stand against the devil, Eph 6:11-17. May God give you eyes to see and understand.
Click to expand...
So you also don't believe in the Trinity?
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#10
Jul 24, 2016
7,581
3,616
113
#10
Randy4u2c said:
My first concern on the subject is that the word "rapture" isn't found anywhere in the new testament. It is a man made doctrine based on the mistranslation of I Thess 4:13-18. .
Click to expand...
The Word Rapture is an anglicized version of a latin word which is a translation of the worlds ""Caught Up""

Caught up appears in the Bible::

(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. {16} For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: {17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

So the rapture is real.. It will happen on the day of the second coming of the LORD Jesus..
 
JohnB

JohnB

Well-known member
#11
Jul 31, 2022
2,078
456
83
Calif
#11
Some people believe in Pre rapture some the Post rapture. I believe in the Pan rapture. It will pan out the way GOD wants to.
 
J

jb

Senior Member
#12
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#12
JohnB said:
Some people believe in Pre rapture some the Post rapture. I believe in the Pan rapture. It will pan out the way GOD wants to.
Click to expand...

In other words...you just sit on the fence and hope for the best!

LOL!
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#13
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#13
Randy4u2c said:
My first concern on the subject is that the word "rapture" isn't found anywhere in the new testament.
Click to expand...
The word "Bible" is not found in the New Testament either. Does that mean the Bible does not exist?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#14
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#14
JaumeJ said:
It seems all who use that term are confusing it with the resurrection which is coming for us all, those who sleep first then we who ae alive yet dead in Yeshua.
Click to expand...
The Resurrection/Rapture is one event. And there are no saints sleeping in Heaven.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#15
Jul 2, 2011
21,425
6,704
113
#15
Nehemiah6 said:
The word "Bible" is not found in the New Testament either. Does that mean the Bible does not exist?
Click to expand...
Why complicate matters when the Word uses the word, resurrection, in most translations to English.

Change the wording of the original translations is verging on confusion for some, even upon apostasy. Why not stick to the Word? It does exist.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#16
Jul 2, 2011
21,425
6,704
113
#16
Come sthe resurrection those who are asleep in the hope of our Lord will be gathered up to meet Jesus Yeshua first, followed instantly by those who are yet quick, in the flesh tha tis. No no saints are asleep in heaven but they do sleep awaiting the resurrection.
 
R

Randy4u2c

Active member
#18
Sep 13, 2022
165
76
28
#18
Gideon300 said:
You won't find "missionary" in the Bible either. That word comes from the Latin translation and it really means apostle. "Rapture" is of a similar origin.

I beg to differ with your interpretation. No one will be resisting the antichrist. Either they will submit or be killed. My understanding is that the real believers will be taken up before the tribulation. There are many who are church goers or who know about Jesus. They will have an opportunity to get real, and pay the price, or turn away completely and be judged accordingly.

Is my understanding correct? I will find out one day, hopefully soon. It is possible to argue for many different interpretations while still remaining biblical. You may be right. You may not be right. It will happen according to God's plan and purpose no matter what we believe.
Click to expand...
What happens if you believe in the rapture and Satan comes first, before the real Lord, saying he has come to rapture or fly you away? Because you are taught the rapture theory, you may easily be deceived.
 
R

Randy4u2c

Active member
#19
Sep 13, 2022
165
76
28
#19
Blade said:
Thanks but its not the word of God telling me "cloud" really means cloud of witnesses though its org "clouds". Nor "air" doesn't mean atmosphere, but the breath of life body that God breathed into Adam. I've been searching out side of what I own and I could have missed it but I can't find that verse really means or translated "breath of life body that God breathed into Adam".

Which event are we talking about? Well for me no where does it say hint at Matt 24 1st Thess 4 17 are the same. Oh yes kinda for sure. Granted both leave out some things. I really doubt GOD just forgot in both cases. One the world sees Him no shout no voice He both times comes in the clouds as the angels said He would return the same way He went up. Angels gather the other no angels. Angels gather " from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. ". So "four winds from one end of heaven to the other" really means the earth I gather? Sure we went this far why not. I can keep going but I think we see where I am going here.

See I don't read look at this based on how I personally believe. Yes I can fully agree I see the same exact think you do. Why can't it be the same event? It can. Why can not it not be 2 events? We are telling Christ what He really said meant in His word? Some are doing this very thing. See I don't just stop here I must take into account other verses and then these to events for me do not match.

Body.. when we die and go to be with Him.. I believe in paradise. Are we as He is or is that still coming? No one that has died and are with Him are as He is. Our body is still flesh on this earth. I die my spirit goes to be with Him but my flesh goes back to where it came from. Those tow still have to be put together from what I read.
Click to expand...
Paul is the writer of Thessalonians and in Hebrews 12:1 he wrote "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great "A CLOUD OF WITNESSES." The word AIR in the Greek Strong's Concordance #109, means to breathe, respire or to blow air. Also I Cor 15:35-54 explains that we have two bodies, flesh and spiritual. The spiritual body is what we are changed into to meet Christ's at his return.
 
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#20
Feb 22, 2021
3,209
1,611
113
Midwest
#20
Randy4u2c said:
What happens if you believe in the rapture and Satan comes first, before the real Lord, saying he has come to rapture or fly you away? Because you are taught the rapture theory, you may easily be deceived.
Click to expand...
We are Easily Comforted (1Th 4:18), knowing The Scriptural Truth:

Did you not prayerfully And CareFULLY review/meditate on All
These Scriptures That Teaches The Truth, not "a theory"?:

Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure I
+
Pre-Trib Great GRACE Departure II

Grace, Peace, And JOY, With Great Comfort In The LORD Jesus!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.