The prodigal son?

[reneweddaybyday]

Sheep who become lost need salvation.

Sheep who become lost need to be found.

In our day and time, only those who are not born again need "salvation".

In our day and time, those who are born again do not need to be born again over and over and over.

Again, do you even know what it means to be born again?

Please explain how a soul dies, or perishes.

I'm not going to explain your misinterpretation of Scripture. I have shown your error in adding the word "eternal" to James 5:20.

Justification, saved by grace, born again, regenerated, Reconciled to God are references to the same thing.

While salvation throughout all ages is by grace through faith, this does not mean that "Born again - Child of God" was available prior to Day of Pentecost.

Instead of arguing that what we have in our day and time does not far surpass that which was revealed prior to Day of Pentecost, that which God hid in Himself, His eternal purpose in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 3:

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.


Just accept by faith that which is freely given to the born again believer in Christ Jesus our Lord. Jesus Christ died to bring us close to Father. Why do you hide this truth under a bushel?

 

[justpassinthrough]

Sheep who become lost need to be found.

Can you define “found” from the scriptures?

In our day and time, only those who are not born again need "salvation".

In our day as it was in the first century those who are lost need salvation.

Again, do you even know what it means to be born again?

Spiritual birth.

Born of God.


Eternal life is knowing God innwhich we are joined to Him: one spirit with Him.

In Christ.


But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17


Those who are in Christ must abide and remain in Christ or they will wither and be cast into the fire.


Those who remain reconciled to Him have eternal life.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6


Lost = Sinner in need of repentance; spiritually dead. Needs to be reconciled.


JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

I'm not going to explain your misinterpretation of Scripture. I have shown your error in adding the word "eternal" to James 5:20.

Everyone dies a physical death except those who are left alive when Christ returns.


There is no promise of not dying a physical death.



For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Perish, die, death are references to eternal damnation: eternal death or spiritual death, the second death.


What is being contrasted is eternal life and eternal death.


This warning is found throughout the scriptures.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

Die = spiritual death; eternal death.


again



Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16


again



Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death​

A sinner is someone who is seperated from Christ. A sinner must repent to be saved from eternal death.


Those who wander from Christ and His teachings have become lost; sinners in need of repentance.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



JPT

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Can you define “found” from the scriptures?

Luke 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Found = Gr. heuriskō which means after searching, to find a thing sought.

Perish, die, death are references to eternal damnation: eternal death or spiritual death, the second death.

You add the word "eternal" to what is written in James 5:20.

I note you completely ignore what is written in 1 Cor 5:5.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Luke 15:5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Found = Gr. heuriskō which means after searching, to find a thing sought.

Found in this parable means Reconciled back to God.


Unless you believe Jesus is teaching us about livestock.



JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

You add the word "eternal" to what is written in James 5:20.

Maybe you think the Apostle James is teaching a person who wanders from the truth will physically die.


Your deceifullness is well noted.



JPT

 

[Loopyslament]

This parable is about repentance, and understanding the love of our Father for his children.
An immense and wonderful love that seeks for the salvation of us rather than our perdition.

While we can extrapolate from this parable to us as Christians, it is primarily directed towards the Jews
and their religious leaders who were failing big time in their responsibilities of living the Law:
"And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, 'This man receives sinners and eats with them.'
Luke 15:2 RSV
>> parable of the lost sheep followed by parable of the lost coin >> parable of a lost son.

"Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took his journey into a far country,
and there he squandered his property in loose living." Luke 15:13 RSV
This is the story of both the Children of Israel, the Jews, and of Spirit-filled Christians, who can separate
themselves from the discipline and commitment to God's righteousness and embrace other gods.

"I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and before you;
I am no longer worthy to be called your son" … Luke 15:18-19 RSV
Repentance.
While we have life there is the hope of repentance and coming back to the light of the gospel
and humbling oneself unto Godly sorrow > contrition [a contrite heart].
I guess for the Jews and their leaders it also meant understanding the purpose of the Law and of mercy.
> The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Psalm 34:18
see also Isaiah 57:15 <

"... But while he was yet at a distance, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and embraced him and
kissed him. < Luke 15:20 RSV
Love. The love of God that is true and eternal, ever faithful for he cannot deny himself; even though often we may
do so through unfaithfulness and many other wrongdoings.
However, repentance from sin and embracing Godliness is at the heart of the gospel of grace and salvation.
"for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found." < Luke 15:24 RSV
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine
just persons, which need no repentance."< Luke 15:7 KJV
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son …

"Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
And he said, A certain man had two sons: … " Luke 15: 10-11 KJV
Well here is the crux of the parable …
one son repents BUT the other older son is angry about this
"But he was angry and refused to go in. …" < Luke 15:28 RSV
The entire second half of the parable is about the angry son; who may well represent the Jews and the Pharisees who
are the older, but self-righteous children being resentful of the new covenant to come, that would also bring salvation
to the gentiles. > see Paul's adventures with murderous and disgruntled Jewry in Acts.

Also it describes very well this same attitude in our churches where the self-righteous members who have never
faltered can be quite resentful of the return of sinners who have squandered their inheritance and now want to come
back and be forgiven.
Like the Pharisees self-righteous people seem to find joy and satisfaction over the perceived perdition of the
underserving or the deplorables of this world.
But this is not so with God who desires that all should come to salvation.

 

[Loopyslament]

I was hoping that more saints would post there findings. It is traditionally taught with the focus on the son that left and came back.
But....there are two sons.....let's focus on the one that stayed.
This is like a Paul Harvey moment......the rest of the story

The one son represents Israel that rejected the Lord, The younger the rebel (publicans and sinners) that came to his senses and returned (not to gain the farm, he had lost that forever) but to be in the Fathers love /house/and to serve him - All who believe in the rejected Christ are always to be where he is 'this day you shall be with me in paradise''absent from the body /present with the Lord a christian never sees death no valley of death for us, one moment here the next with the Lord - heaven is our home, with our Lord. Israel who rejected will inherit blessings on earth for that nation will be restored when the Lord returns Zech 12 Is 60 - 62 and 'all that I have is yours in the parable speaks of that- they look for him who will return to reign on earth. We look to be with Him Phil 3 - 1 Thess 14 to be caught up to be forever with Him

 

[Shamah]

The one son represents Israel that rejected the Lord, The younger the rebel (publicans and sinners) that came to his senses and returned (not to gain the farm, he had lost that forever) but to be in the Fathers love /house/and to serve him - All who believe in the rejected Christ are always to be where he is 'this day you shall be with me in paradise''absent from the body /present with the Lord a christian never sees death no valley of death for us, one moment here the next with the Lord - heaven is our home, with our Lord. Israel who rejected will inherit blessings on earth for that nation will be restored when the Lord returns Zech 12 Is 60 - 62 and 'all that I have is yours in the parable speaks of that- they look for him who will return to reign on earth. We look to be with Him Phil 3 - 1 Thess 14 to be caught up to be forever with Him

SO the son that stays with the father actually represents rejecting the father? What? crazy...

THis makes no sense.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Found in this parable means Reconciled back to God.

So now you're changing the word "heuriskō" to "katallassō".

All because you cannot accept that "heuriskō" means 'after searching, to find a thing sought'.

And please note, the context indicates the shepherd goes out to search for the sheep, the woman searches for the coin (interestingly, the word "found" in Luke 15:9 is the Greek word "heuriskō").

Unless you believe Jesus is teaching us about livestock.

Nope. Jesus is teaching the pharisees and scribes who murmured because He received publicans and sinners and ate with them.

Your deceifullness is well noted.

So rather than acknowledge your error in adding the word "eternal" to the text, you would rather cast aspersions and still not deal with what is written in 1 Cor 5:5.

Interesting whose "deceifullness is well noted" in this instance.

 

[Loopyslament]

SO the son that stays with the father actually represents rejecting the father? What? crazy...

THis makes no sense.

This parable reflects the attitudes to the Lord - The leaders of Israel follow the law - those that believe in Christ experiance the spiritual blessings of savation ( theFathers love = ring / authority (represents the Father toall) ,Best robe/ the one favoured closest to the father, shoes/able to move freely shod with the gospel of peace. The elder Son Irael then and today following Moses law that wit,h or without land, still waiting for an earthly blessing through the messiah - which they will receive -those promises will yet happen - So in this parable 'all that I have is yours' speaks of that (words are important). It should be noted the younger on has no claim on that His interest isto be withthe Father serving him and he goesintothe house - in this parable the elderson does not, hestays outside which is where Irael is today email me sherwood635@aol.com and I will send you a more comprehenive note

 

[justpassinthrough]

So now you're changing the word "heuriskō" to "katallassō".

All because you cannot accept that "heuriskō" means 'after searching, to find a thing sought'.

And please note, the context indicates the shepherd goes out to search for the sheep, the woman searches for the coin (interestingly, the word "found" in Luke 15:9 is the Greek word "heuriskō").

The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd, as they are His sheep:

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


However, we see from this teaching of Jesus, that His sheep can indeed become lost.

• ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 99 are said to be "just"; Declared by God as right with Him - Righteous


The one who becomes lost, is described by Jesus as a sinner [unjust; not reconciled to God - unrighteous] in need of repentance.


These are the words of Jesus.


Now comes the question to you -


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.



For a sheep to be lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.


A person does lose what they never had.



JPT

 

[Hungry]

‘My son,’ ​

the father said, ​

‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.'​

(Luke 15:31) ​

why does he say, 'everything I have is yours' ?

the man had two sons, and the inheritance would have been split between them. one son demanded his inheritance early, took it and went away squandering it.
what was the situation with the other son? everything that remained would have been his inheritance - did he mean to take it early as well? it would have passed to him when the man died. is it possible this other son plotted to kill him, to seize the inheritance? he is outside, and angry, when this conversation takes place ((v.28)). he has his servant with him ((v.26)). what is his intention?
in type - because Christ is teaching in parable what is happening even as He speaks it - the other son is unbelieving Israel, who was in fact plotting to put Him, called "Everlasting Father," to death.

....or not. The son who stayed seemed like he was just throwing a pity party and was jealous that the father seemed to care more about a disobedient runaway, than him, who dedicated his life to be with the father. It parallels those who backslide and then return to God. The bitter son is those who have grew up in the church, taught Sunday School, and diligently served. Their inheritance will be vast (“all I have is yours”) while those who don’t are still washed in the blood of Christ but will enter eternity with very little.

 

[Loopyslament]

The 100 sheep belong to the shepherd, as they are His sheep:

• What man of you, having a hundred sheep

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


However, we see from this teaching of Jesus, that His sheep can indeed become lost.

• ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

The 99 are said to be "just"; Declared by God as right with Him - Righteous


The one who becomes lost, is described by Jesus as a sinner [unjust; not reconciled to God - unrighteous] in need of repentance.


These are the words of Jesus.


Now comes the question to you -


Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?


Found = Reconciled to God: Justified - Declared to be right with God.


Lost = Seperated from God. Unjust. Unrighteous. A Sinner in need of repentance.



For a sheep to be lost, it must first belong to the Shepherd.


A person does lose what they never had.



JPT

Of course the lost here represents the 'sinners of Israel, the lesson is from the shepherding practice where a man might only have one and the shpherding was a shared responsibilty amongst the community (so common to have more than one shephered - in a size of 100 maybe three- its force is that one to him is vital and being found all will rejoice with him it And it is a picture of the Love of God for the stray - that one might be all that that shepherd has or he knows how valuable it is to the owner. Culture has some force that we can miss, not knowing it. Israel here is the flock Israel was a nation seperated by the promises , devine law, Ceromonys, feast days and sabbaths frm other nations a theocracy - until around laye AD 60s when Rome invaded and completely subdued it the fial action seven years later was Masada unfder Solvio I think

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Based on the actual words Jesus uses, is a sheep who wanders away and becomes lost, a sinner or saint, saved or unsaved, just or unjust?

All your verbosity does not change the word "heuriskō" to "katallassō".

Based on the actual words of Jesus, the lost sheep needs to be "heuriskō" (found).

A person does lose what they never had.

Yes, that is why I question why you insist the one lost sheep needs to be born again. Since a person is born again only one time, and after that one time, when he/she wanders into sin, he/she does not need to be born again a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc., time.

The born again believer is to confess his/her sin and God is faithful and just to forgive our sin (1 John 1:9).

 

[Jewel5712]

All your verbosity does not change the word "heuriskō" to "katallassō".

Based on the actual words of Jesus, the lost sheep needs to be "heuriskō" (found).





Yes, that is why I question why you insist the one lost sheep needs to be born again. Since a person is born again only one time, and after that one time, when he/she wanders into sin, he/she does not need to be born again a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc., time.

The born again believer is to confess his/her sin and God is faithful and just to forgive our sin (1 John 1:9).

Isiah 53:6

"6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,

each of us has turned to our own way;

and the Lord has laid on him

the iniquity of us all."

Sheep are dumb animals..Jesus uses that analogy a lot...they graze all over without watching where they're going n end up lost..stranded or dead...

We "as shhep" are prone to sin because of our sinful nature..wandering away from God who loves us..but God sent his son to Die for us..to take on our inquiries and sin so that we "sheep" can be restored to God's fold that was intended for mankind before Adam n Eve sinned..

 

[justpassinthrough]

Of course the lost here represents the 'sinners of Israel, the lesson is from the shepherding practice where a man might only have one and the shpherding was a shared responsibilty amongst the community (so common to have more than one shephered - in a size of 100 maybe three- its force is that one to him is vital and being found all will rejoice with him it And it is a picture of the Love of God for the stray - that one might be all that that shepherd has or he knows how valuable it is to the owner. Culture has some force that we can miss, not knowing it. Israel here is the flock Israel was a nation seperated by the promises , devine law, Ceromonys, feast days and sabbaths frm other nations a theocracy - until around laye AD 60s when Rome invaded and completely subdued it the fial action seven years later was Masada unfder Solvio I think

A sheep which represents one of God’s children who wander away and become lost has returned to being a sinner in need of repentance.

Needing justification.

Needing reconciliation.

• likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


The lost need salvation.



JPT

 

[Loopyslament]

Isiah 53:6

"6We all, like sheep, have gone astray,

each of us has turned to our own way;

and the Lord has laid on him

the iniquity of us all."

Sheep are dumb animals..Jesus uses that analogy a lot...they graze all over without watching where they're going n end up lost..stranded or dead...

We "as shhep" are prone to sin because of our sinful nature..wandering away from God who loves us..but God sent his son to Die for us..to take on our inquiries and sin so that we "sheep" can be restored to God's fold that was intended for mankind before Adam n Eve sinned..[/QUOTE
The context here is Israel as the flock of God - and those who accept Christ, who are regarded as lost because of what is seem as disobedience as in the prodiigal or the publicans, or the blind man (altogether born in Sin and Iniquity) etc email me and I will send a fuller explanation of the prodigal. There are exceptions such as a Nicodemas / Joseph of Arimathea / Lydia / Mary/ ruler of the synagogue whose daughter was at the point of death whose transition from being a faithful in Israel to accepting Christ was ubtainted by a spirit of rejection 'Rabbi we know you are drom God because ----' ( rejection pictured in the elder Son who would not rejoice or the Son who said I will but did not)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

We "as shhep" are prone to sin because of our sinful nature..wandering away from God who loves us..but God sent his son to Die for us..to take on our inquiries and sin so that we "sheep" can be restored to God's fold that was intended for mankind before Adam n Eve sinned..

Jewel5712,

If a born again believer sins and passes away without having been "restored to God's fold", does that born again believer face "eternal death" (i.e. is that born again believer cast into the lake of fire)?

It appears to me that is what justpassinthrough is saying ... that if a born again believer sins and then dies before being "restored to God's fold", that born again believer will be cast into the lake of fire and face eternal death.

 

[Noblemen]

I would like it if you saints would give a brief summary on this well known story.
Traditional teachings would have it captioned as the prodigal son or lavish son.....is there more to it??

"A certain man had two son's," beautiful portrait of the Father being himself and the son's being themselves. Our father never dictates how to live, he trusts his nature (Christ in you nature) in every believer to live their life.
The law controlled the old nature to keep it in submission, that is no longer needed with the new Christ in you nature.
Believers can struggle to make things work out by still trying to control the new nature that needs no controlling but needs the mind (renewing to the new Christ in you nature) compatible with the new Christ in you nature.
Created in the image and likeness of God, the soul has to be free to express itself, religion would conform all to be alike, horrendous stereotyping of humanity. The human being is never independent of their nature, humans are dependent on their nature (spirit) and soul (mind) to express who they are, a unique creation in the image and likeness of God the father.