The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints

[Pilgrim]

I am a firm believer in the pretribulation rapture and am grieved when those who do not have the same belief belittle those who do. For those who have titled us escapists may I say that our Lord told us to pray that we may escape the wrath to come.
All who have been born again will go to be with the Lord while He pours out His wrath on those who have rejected His grace. Our current situation as grim as it may seem is but the beginning of sorrows as Jesus told us in Matthew 24. The continual rejection of Christian morals and beliefs as it gathers momentum is fulfilling Psalm 2, but the end is not yet. We should watch therefore for we do not know precisely when he will come. The climax of the tribulation will be the return of Christ to the earth when as Jude says "He will come with ten thousands of His saints and restore the kingdom to repentant Israel. He will reign on the throne of his father David for 1000years and His followers will reign with him. I cannot see why some are not looking up for our redemption is nigh, But I thank God that we will all be together with Him.

 

[Runningman]

Here's what the Bible actually says about the rapture and when it happens:

15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31

1. After the tribulation
2. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
3. The rapture

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52

1. The last trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. We shall be changed
4. All in the twinkling of an eye

15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”
Revelation 11:15

1. Final trumpet, Christ reigns forever
2. Kingdom of the world becomes the Lord's kingdom

The resurrection seen is on (The Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught, John 6:39-40, & 11:23-24

In conclusion: after the great tribulation Christ returns at the last (seventh and final) trumpet, the dead are resurrected, and believers are changed and raptured, all in the twinkling of an eye. They aren't separate events, they happen together.

 

[Pilgrim]

Here's what the Bible actually says about the rapture and when it happens:

15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31

1. After the tribulation
2. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
3. The rapture

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52

1. The last trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. We shall be changed
4. All in the twinkling of an eye

15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”
Revelation 11:15

1. Final trumpet, Christ reigns forever
2. Kingdom of the world becomes the Lord's kingdom

The resurrection seen is on (The Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught, John 6:39-40, & 11:23-24

In conclusion: after the great tribulation Christ returns at the last (seventh and final) trumpet, the dead are resurrected, and believers are changed and raptured, all in the twinkling of an eye. They aren't separate events, they happen together.

Thank you for your views they are not new to me and I could respond at length. It is sufficient to say that Jesus spoke of two resurrections the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. One to Eternal Life and the other to Eternal Judgement. Paul in 1Corinthians 15 speaks of the resurrection of Christ and they which are Christs at His coming and then cometh the end when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God. While in the Revelation John Puts the Great White throne Judgement after the thousand years reign. Making your order doubtful. In the book of Hebrews Chapter 6 Paul refers to the First Principles of the doctrine of Christ (The Milk of the Word) and the resurrection of the world and eternal judgement.
I often think that we do err in concentrating our portions of scripture rather than the whole. Your quotes from John are dangerous for there is no mention of resurrection in John 6:39-40 and the words appear in Martha's answer to Jesus and are not the words of Jesus. Also in neither passage concerning the rapture are the trumpets said to be the last.
Once again thank you and may God Bless you as we journey through this world.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is no convincing scriptural evidence that Jesus taught a pre-tribulation appearance.

Only for those who are wilfully blind. Jesus taught that the Rapture would be IMMINENT, and that fact in itself refutes any nonsense about a post-tribulation Rapture.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come...Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh...Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. (Mt 24:40-42,44; 25:13)

 

[Runningman]

Thank you for your views they are not new to me and I could respond at length. It is sufficient to say that Jesus spoke of two resurrections the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. One to Eternal Life and the other to Eternal Judgement. Paul in 1Corinthians 15 speaks of the resurrection of Christ and they which are Christs at His coming and then cometh the end when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God. While in the Revelation John Puts the Great White throne Judgement after the thousand years reign. Making your order doubtful. In the book of Hebrews Chapter 6 Paul refers to the First Principles of the doctrine of Christ (The Milk of the Word) and the resurrection of the world and eternal judgement.
I often think that we do err in concentrating our portions of scripture rather than the whole. Your quotes from John are dangerous for there is no mention of resurrection in John 6:39-40 and the words appear in Martha's answer to Jesus and are not the words of Jesus. Also in neither passage concerning the rapture are the trumpets said to be the last.
Once again thank you and may God Bless you as we journey through this world.

None of what you just said about the sources I referenced is correct. For thoroughness I actually went back and checked to make sure I didn't mistakenly misquote anything.

We agree there are two resurrections, but they occur at the same time -John 5:28-29, Acts 24:15.

The resurrection of any kind only occurs on the last day. The sources I quoted about Jesus himself saying it's the last day when the resurrection occurs are red letter verses. Yes, Martha commented in one of them, but only repeating what Jesus had already said, not adding any new scripture.

I think where you are getting thrown off is that you think the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked occur in different time periods. There is no so much mention of the sheep and the goats being resurrected in any other time than the last day, which I rightly quoted. There is two different judgements though, one for goats and one for sheep.

Jesus returns at the last trumpet, that's in the verses quoted. The return of Christ is the end of the world as we know it. (2 Peter 3:10) which sets is the conditions necessary for a new heaven and earth because the first ones get destroyed. Not really sure what makes the Bible doubtful here, but anyway at least you've been given a chance to read what the Bible actually says about it.

Yes, you also take care.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There is no so much mention of the sheep and the goats being resurrected in any other time than the last day, which I rightly quoted. There is two different judgements though, one for goats and one for sheep.

In the Sheep and goat judgment/separation [of the nations] (as well as in the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passage upon which their later Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED), there is no mention of anyone being resurrected, as these (in these contexts) are "still-living" persons at the time of His Second Coming to the earth.

Jesus returns at the last trumpet, that's in the verses quoted. The return of Christ is the end of the world as we know it. (2 Peter 3:10) which sets is the conditions necessary for a new heaven and earth because the first ones get destroyed.

I would just suggest reading BOTH chpts of Isa34 & 35, rather than just Isa34:4, one verse extracted out from its context, to see what Peter is referring to in this 2Pet3:10-12 context.


[recall, "the Day of the Lord" ARRIVES like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" (like Jesus spoke about in this Olivet Discourse), and MUCH MORE must follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" which (PANGS [PLURAL]) lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19), not START there, at that point]

Not really sure what makes the Bible doubtful here, but anyway at least you've been given a chance to read what the Bible actually says about it.

 

[Runningman]

In the Sheep and goat judgment/separation [of the nations] (as well as in the Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50 passage upon which their later Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED), there is no mention of anyone being resurrected, as these (in these contexts) are "still-living" persons at the time of His Second Coming to the earth.



I would just suggest reading BOTH chpts of Isa34 & 35, rather than just Isa34:4, one verse extracted out from its context, to see what Peter is referring to in this 2Pet3:10-12 context.

Judgement of Sheep and Goats when Christ returns:

Matthew 25:31-33
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

New Heaven and Earth when Christ returns:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Absolutely]

Here's what the Bible actually says about the rapture and when it happens:

15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31

1. After the tribulation
2. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
3. The rapture

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:52

1. The last trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. We shall be changed
4. All in the twinkling of an eye

15 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”
Revelation 11:15

1. Final trumpet, Christ reigns forever
2. Kingdom of the world becomes the Lord's kingdom

The resurrection seen is on (The Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught, John 6:39-40, & 11:23-24

In conclusion: after the great tribulation Christ returns at the last (seventh and final) trumpet, the dead are resurrected, and believers are changed and raptured, all in the twinkling of an eye. They aren't separate events, they happen together.

You are missed the point.
Because by leaving out the rapture verses and dynamics your point you think you make is weak beyond words.

You are evidently oblivious to the argument at hand.
IT IS NOT the fact Jesus returns postrib.
We ALL belive that.

The debate centers on "are we able to force fit the prejudgement rapture INTO OUR BELIEF.

That is the debste.

And yes there is a gathering postrib.

Anyone can see that.

By omitting the key verses (I know "my verses" is yet another tedious problem),you have no point in your persuasion.

But you guys actually rob yourselves.
SMH

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Runningman ,

Luke 22:18,16,30 corresponds with Matthew 19:28 (and Matt26:29), so these say [quoted in part],

"30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."

[and]

"28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." (<--corresponding TIME-WISE with Matt25:31-34 and context, which is following His Second Coming to the earth)


[speaking of ^ the time following His return to the earth (Rev19) FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER/FESTIVITIES [on the earth]," aka "the MEAL [G347] [on the earth]," aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]," aka "the age [singular] to come [on the earth]," etc etc)]

 

[Absolutely]

Judgement of Sheep and Goats when Christ returns:

Matthew 25:31-33
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

New Heaven and Earth when Christ returns:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

You left out the millineum.

New Jerusalem comes after that as well as another battle and GWTJ.

IOW a rebellion is quietly incubated amongst the population. So when satan is released, yet another and final purging of earths inhabitants.

God iscariot God of purpose.

Leaving dynamics out is such great great incubators for error.

In fact error is almost guaranteed.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

New Heaven and Earth when Christ returns:

2 Peter 3:10-13
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Those two little words "IN WHICH" consist of MUCH DURATION OF TIME (with MUCH transpiring within that time)


[just like they do in Acts 17:31 ]


Again, read BOTH CHPTS of Isaiah 34 & 35 [not merely 34:4, one verse extracted from its context]

 

[Absolutely]

@Runningman ,

Luke 22:18,16,30 corresponds with Matthew 19:28 (and Matt26:29), so these say [quoted in part],

"30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judgING the twelve tribes of Israel."

[and]

"28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel." (<--corresponding TIME-WISE with Matt25:31-34 and context, which is following His Second Coming to the earth)


[speaking of ^ the time following His return to the earth (Rev19) FOR the commencement of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom (aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER/FESTIVITIES [on the earth]," aka "the MEAL [G347] [on the earth]," aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]," aka "the age [singular] to come [on the earth]," etc etc)]

And note nothing there of the wedding supper says "on earth".
You added it incorrectly.

Of course we eat and drink at The Table.

That is error thinking everywhere you see "eat" is a wedding supper.

Wedding supper is where Jesus placed it at the last supper and rev 19 confirms it.

You even go so far as to add "festivities" to mat 25.
And I agree with that addition . Because Jesus takes his bride to the father in heaven where Jesus places the wedding supper.

 

[Absolutely]

If I remember correctly (if I am wrong disregard this) you seemed to have negated virgin as being the bride)

If true that is error as well.

 

[Runningman]

Those two little words "IN WHICH" consist of MUCH DURATION OF TIME (with MUCH transpiring within that time)


[just like they do in Acts 17:31 ]


Again, read BOTH CHPTS of Isaiah 34 & 35 [not merely 34:4, one verse extracted from its context]

"In the which" is a sentence connector. It is not referring to "much duration of time."

 

[Absolutely]

Thank you for your views they are not new to me and I could respond at length. It is sufficient to say that Jesus spoke of two resurrections the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. One to Eternal Life and the other to Eternal Judgement. Paul in 1Corinthians 15 speaks of the resurrection of Christ and they which are Christs at His coming and then cometh the end when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God. While in the Revelation John Puts the Great White throne Judgement after the thousand years reign. Making your order doubtful. In the book of Hebrews Chapter 6 Paul refers to the First Principles of the doctrine of Christ (The Milk of the Word) and the resurrection of the world and eternal judgement.
I often think that we do err in concentrating our portions of scripture rather than the whole. Your quotes from John are dangerous for there is no mention of resurrection in John 6:39-40 and the words appear in Martha's answer to Jesus and are not the words of Jesus. Also in neither passage concerning the rapture are the trumpets said to be the last.
Once again thank you and may God Bless you as we journey through this world.

I always thought it strange that postibs actually PIVOT on such shaky ground and then think they proved a point.

.....and yes,Martha's words were trying to connect the dots.
Interesting to note she did not understand who she was talking to.
Jesus basically revealed to her "I am the resurrection"

 

[Runningman]

And note nothing there of the wedding supper says "on earth".
You added it incorrectly.

Of course we eat and drink at The Table.

That is error thinking everywhere you see "eat" is a wedding supper.

Wedding supper is where Jesus placed it at the last supper and rev 19 confirms it.

You even go so far as to add "festivities" to mat 25.
And I agree with that addition . Because Jesus takes his bride to the father in heaven where Jesus places the wedding supper.

If I remember correctly (if I am wrong disregard this) you seemed to have negated virgin as being the bride)

If true that is error as well.

That wasn't the point of my post, that's why I didn't include that. Feel free to add what you wish to add if you think it helps.

There's too many of these pre-tribulation rapture threads that you and a few other of the same exact people have posted throughout 2020 and undoubtedly will this year. You guys have an agenda, but when or if I notice these threads I'll just keep adding corrections because pre-trib rapture is unbiblical.

I have actually studied with an open heart and mind pre-trib because if it is the truth then I want to know about it. It isn't in the Bible. Sorry, but it isn't.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"In the which" is a sentence connector. It is not referring to "much duration of time."

Consider the following:

[quoting old post]

(notice a mistaken point made by the Amill-teachings' viewpoint):

1 Corinthians 15:23-28 (note especially the bold I'm pointing out, below) -

23 But every man [/EACH] in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [<---note how far apart, time-wise, these two listed items take place]

24 Then [G1534 - eita] cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


The word "G1534 - eita - THEN" (v.24) is a SEQUENCE word ONLY "with no time-element attached" to it (unlike another Greek word translated "then" which is "G5119 - tote" like is used in 2Th2:8 and other places).

THIS word for "THEN" (G1534) is only with regard to "SEQUENCE"... and if you'll notice the THREE items LISTED here START with Jesus' own Resurrection some 2000 YEARS before the NEXT LISTED item.

So it is no problem at all for the THIRD LISTED item to be speaking of something that SEQUENTIALLY takes place 1000 years after the second listed item!

[Note: the word "coming [cometh]" is not in the text. The text just reads "THEN [G1534] the end"... and it is NOT "THEN IMMEDIATELY the end," as the Amill-teaching skews it to mean! ... but "THEN sequentially the end" ]


____________

This ^ is just one passage... but there's also the following to passages which correspond with each other:

--Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 (His Second Coming to the earth)

(corresponding with)

--the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23], which is SEPARATED by a TIME-PERIOD before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words (in that text) takes place (exactly like [a time-period intervening between] Rev19 and Rev20:11-15 shows there to be... between them)


[end quoting old posts]

____________

[that is the TIME-PERIOD I'm referring to that corresponds to the "IN WHICH" phrase]

 

[Absolutely]

Quote by running man
""15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture""

Now what you leave out

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

See that?

See what happens when you place the dead in Christ resurrecting AFTER the living??????
That alone should get you into the real picture.

Will await your interpretation.

Remember,During the trib,two huge groups are gathered.
I see a way out for you.
You can try for making it after the gt ( just take away the actual description of Jesus in rev 19,or make "cloud" into horse.)

No matter what, postrib rapture goes away with rev 14.

 

[Absolutely]

That wasn't the point of my post, that's why I didn't include that. Feel free to add what you wish to add if you think it helps.

There's too many of these pre-tribulation rapture threads that you and a few other of the same exact people have posted throughout 2020 and undoubtedly will this year. You guys have an agenda, but when or if I notice these threads I'll just keep adding corrections because pre-trib rapture is unbiblical.

I have actually studied with an open heart and mind pre-trib because if it is the truth then I want to know about it. It isn't in the Bible. Sorry, but it isn't.

Go back and look
I was addressing DWM,

....but there is a bunch of them I did address you.

Mainly getting your attention on several gatherings ,and your forcefit into the second coming on white horses

 

[Pilgrim]

That wasn't the point of my post, that's why I didn't include that. Feel free to add what you wish to add if you think it helps.

There's too many of these pre-tribulation rapture threads that you and a few other of the same exact people have posted throughout 2020 and undoubtedly will this year. You guys have an agenda, but when or if I notice these threads I'll just keep adding corrections because pre-trib rapture is unbiblical.

I have actually studied with an open heart and mind pre-trib because if it is the truth then I want to know about it. It isn't in the Bible. Sorry, but it isn't.

When you have made up your mind as you say, there is no place for discussion and we must agree to disagree and let God be the judge. I too will not be persuaded being fully convinced of my belief after many years of study and debate. May the Lord bless you.