Before I answer, could you comment on the "four winds", as that was the crux of my argument. Thanks.
The Post Tribulation Rapture
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Before I answer, could you comment on the "four winds", as that was the crux of my argument. Thanks.
The scripture is clear and simple to understand, the Church is the (Elect)
Thessalonians 1:4KJV
4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
The Elect Church Of God Was Scattered, Read It, Real Big Smiles!
Got Anymore Rabbits In Your Hat?
1 Peter 1:1-2KJV
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
The Church are those (Scattered Abroad)
Matthew 26:31KJV
31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.
It would do you good to read first, what the other brother has said.
Isaiah 45:4; "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."
1st Timothy 5:21; "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."
What obedient children?
Even if you could find ONE perfect person, (other then Jesus Christ) that person would still have the stain of Adams' sin attached to him.
Romans 3
both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written:
“There is no righteous person, not even one;
11 There is no one who understands,
There is no one who seeks out God;
12 They have all turned aside, together they have become [i]corrupt;
There is no one who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The venom of [j]asps is under their lips”;
14 “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And they have not known the way of peace.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Thanks for your response, I have no axe to grind with your belief GAT, feel free to engage in debate, I'll go slow and easy in response
In Love, Jesus Christ Is Lord!
Your claim is false, the parallel teaching in Mark below, expounds on Matthew's teaching, (Uttermost Parts Of The Earth)
It's amazing how far one will go to prop up the teachings In dispensationalism of a pre-trib rapture, this being a prime example.
Jesus Christ Is Lord!
Mark 13:27KJV
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
^ Think about this Mark 13:27 and what it is communicating:
--the "TO" is not saying where the "destination location" is
--the "FROM" and "TO" is telling us the "extremities" of where all will be gathered (in that context)... i.e. no place left out
... read the whole context of the sentence, rather than extracting small phrases from it, to see what it is actually conveying.
It is not saying they'll be gathered from the farthest place on earth TO the farthest place in Heaven (as the destination point). That makes no sense whatsoever.
--the "TO" is not saying where the "destination location" is
--the "FROM" and "TO" is telling us the "extremities" of where all will be gathered (in that context)... i.e. no place left out
... read the whole context of the sentence, rather than extracting small phrases from it, to see what it is actually conveying.
It is not saying they'll be gathered from the farthest place on earth TO the farthest place in Heaven (as the destination point). That makes no sense whatsoever.
Additionally, Matt24:31 uses the plural, and says this:
"And He will send His angels with a great trumpet call, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens [PLURAL] to the ends thereof [/of THEM--PLURAL]."
[these passages ^ speak of the time-slot surrounding His Second Coming to the earth, as in, Rev19 (NOT "our Rapture" point in the chronology)]
"And He will send His angels with a great trumpet call, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens [PLURAL] to the ends thereof [/of THEM--PLURAL]."
[these passages ^ speak of the time-slot surrounding His Second Coming to the earth, as in, Rev19 (NOT "our Rapture" point in the chronology)]
Read It, Plain And Simple
(FROM THE UTTERMOST PART OF EARTH)
(EVERYWHERE)
Mark 13:27KJV
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
I am just making an observation that the gathering (mat 24) has certain dynamics.
I dont know for sure,it could be one of three things, but definently not the rapture.
I would say 4 corners means it is a complete thorough search/gathering. But in heaven.
--the blue and the green are telling of distinct groups of persons... with the green telling of those who will have been martyred [/beheaded] during the second half of the trib (the final 1260 days, i.e. the LAST ONES to die/be martyred [and "resurrected" physically/bodily] before the earthly MK age commences)
--"souls" in a number of passages refers to the entire person (not merely a part of the individuals), I had listed those verses to you before, I think... but even if it refers to their "souls" as distinct from the entire person, this text is distinguishing what happens to THESE persons as opposed to "[the rest of] the dead [who don't!, who] lived NOT again UNTIL..." (but THESE DO, because they are slated to "reign with Christ" a thousand years--they are simply the last ones to die before that time period will commence, and they are "resurrected" FOR it, unlike "[the rest of] the dead" who will NOT)
I respect your honesty after being shown scriptural truth, a good thing!
Once Again, Your response is silent, No Physical Kingdom Or Mortal Humans Are Seen Below, (None)
There will be no future Millennial Kingdom upon this earth, a teaching in error.
Where below do you see a Kingdom on this Earth with humans present?
You Don't, And Many Continue To Teach Fairy Tales, Were Off To See The Wizard
Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ
Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Is there any member of this site upon reading this post who is actually willing to acknowledge and agree with the simple grammar-based reasoning that everything in verse 29 after the intial phrase 'Immediately after the tribulation of those days' is being stated as occuring after the 'tribulation' which is referred to in that phrase...???
Is there anyone one here who is bold enough to say:
"Yes - I believe that is what that verse clearly indicates."
Please --- let your voice be heard --- reply in this thread and state the above italicized quote (or similar).
The church as a body is not full of people who are obedient.
They may try, and some will succeed better than others, but none can claim to be an obedient child of God
I fully agree that Matthew 24:29-31 is prophetic of events that are future from the Lords life when he spoke, and that includes events that will take place immediately after a (Future) tribulation that hasn't been fulfilled.
How can you not see that all of this is either on or above the earth?
~ came down from heaven - to heaven? Or, to earth?
~ is the bottomless pit in heaven? Or, on/in the earth?
~ No human being will ever have a 'throne' in heaven. The Bible does not even indicate in any way that Jesus Himself has His own throne in Heaven. However, He will on earth. Until then, He sits at the right hand of the Father on His (the Father's) throne.
~ What would be the purpose of reigning with Christ in heaven? Reigning over what exactly? The only place anything needs to be reigned over is on earth.
The only place there can even be a kingdom with humans present is on the earth.
You are wrong about this because you are misinterpreting some of the very passages of scripture that you are using to support your view.
Remember - all scripture must agree.
