The One Word That Can Shred Your Family to Pieces

[SteveEpperson]

The One Word That Can Shred Your Family to Pieces


The other day, I was led in prayer by a ministry leader with several other people in attendance. The focus was on our commitment to the Lord, a worthy subject, no doubt.



However, there was one part of the prayer that I was not in agreement with. I will quote it the best I can:



"Lord, we are willing to leave ANY relationship if it is pushing us away from you."



While this sounds reasonable, I am not sure God would agree. I go back to what Jesus said in Mathew 19:8:



He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."



We have to assume that Jesus also talked about wives divorcing their husbands. Our Lord and savior states it pretty clearly here:



"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18



So, for those women bent on playing "musical husbands," all because they cannot seem to find the perfect one, they will be held to account.



I already know the rebuttal coming my way:



Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor. 16:14



You can always count on this being the ONE verse that every young wife in the church has memorized. This is her trump card. If that no-good husband of hers doesn't start proving that he can rise to everyone else's expectations, she will play her hand.



For example, according to every pastor in North America, he needs to:

• Provide, not just a little, but everything our society says we all need to have. Not only that, but what everyone else in the church has as well.
• Be a perfect husband, period.
• Be a perfect father, period.
• Be a perfect disciple of Christ, despite the church doors being locked 166 hours out of each week.
• Be the rock of the family, despite having little support from anyone in the church.

Be, be, be. And if you are not, the implicit message to your wife is:



"It's okay, honey, you can leave him. He probably isn't really a Christian, anyway."



As one who has been on the receiving end of having my family ripped to shreds, I am begging for ministry leaders to go quiet. Just stop talking already!



Think about what you are truly saying before you say it. In my example above, the word ANY can have devastating consequences.

 

[Dino246]

The One Word That Can Shred Your Family to Pieces

The other day, I was led in prayer by a ministry leader with several other people in attendance. The focus was on our commitment to the Lord, a worthy subject, no doubt. However, there was one part of the prayer that I was not in agreement with. I will quote it the best I can:

"Lord, we are willing to leave ANY relationship if it is pushing us away from you."

While this sounds reasonable, I am not sure God would agree. ...

Think about what you are truly saying before you say it. In my example above, the word ANY can have devastating consequences.

The prayer you quoted is not reasonable; it's a corruption of good intention into bad consequence. It would have been appropriate, at the very least, to say to the Lord, "I can't say Amen to that". It might be appropriate to challenge the leader (privately) to consider the implications of that prayer. A better way to phrase it might be, "Lord, show us any ways in which our relationships are pushing us away from You, and how to bring those relationships into proper alignment."

 

[kaylagrl]

The One Word That Can Shred Your Family to Pieces


The other day, I was led in prayer by a ministry leader with several other people in attendance. The focus was on our commitment to the Lord, a worthy subject, no doubt.



However, there was one part of the prayer that I was not in agreement with. I will quote it the best I can:



"Lord, we are willing to leave ANY relationship if it is pushing us away from you."



While this sounds reasonable, I am not sure God would agree. I go back to what Jesus said in Mathew 19:8:



He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."



We have to assume that Jesus also talked about wives divorcing their husbands. Our Lord and savior states it pretty clearly here:



"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18



So, for those women bent on playing "musical husbands," all because they cannot seem to find the perfect one, they will be held to account.



I already know the rebuttal coming my way:



Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor. 16:14



You can always count on this being the ONE verse that every young wife in the church has memorized. This is her trump card. If that no-good husband of hers doesn't start proving that he can rise to everyone else's expectations, she will play her hand.



For example, according to every pastor in North America, he needs to:

• Provide, not just a little, but everything our society says we all need to have. Not only that, but what everyone else in the church has as well.
• Be a perfect husband, period.
• Be a perfect father, period.
• Be a perfect disciple of Christ, despite the church doors being locked 166 hours out of each week.
• Be the rock of the family, despite having little support from anyone in the church.

Be, be, be. And if you are not, the implicit message to your wife is:



"It's okay, honey, you can leave him. He probably isn't really a Christian, anyway."



As one who has been on the receiving end of having my family ripped to shreds, I am begging for ministry leaders to go quiet. Just stop talking already!



Think about what you are truly saying before you say it. In my example above, the word ANY can have devastating consequences.

Have you ever heard the term "love goggles"? Or rose colored glasses? And it means what? That everything that person sees is tinted because of what they are experiencing. Well I believe there is an opposite to that. And I think people who have been through trauma see the whole world from those glasses. It's not their fault, they haven't healed. But what they have to say is tinted because of their experiences. I'm sorry you went through whatever you had to suffer through. But maybe it's time to lay it down and take time out to heal. Remember that because one woman did you wrong doesn't mean all women have her POV not even close.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Remember that because one woman did you wrong doesn't mean all women have her POV not even close.

First, I would like to say that I value your opinion, and from what I have read in your posts, you are one of the Godliest women I have come across in my lifetime.

With that said, I believe your attempt at shifting the focus on me instead of the underlying issue is misplaced. Simply put, ministry leaders who use the word ANY in this context are wrong.

I used the example of divorce as a way to sever a relationship. But what about our children? Are we to sever the relationship with our children because we think they're holding us back from a Godly existence. Of course not!

Likewise, I do not think it is okay for a ministry leader to say divorce is okay. As it is, young women are presented with enough excuses from our fallen world for leaving their husbands. They do not need another one from our church leaders.

 

[kaylagrl]

First, I would like to say that I value your opinion, and from what I have read in your posts, you are one of the Godliest women I have come across in my lifetime.

Oh brother, I appreciate that, I do. But I was just writing another brother here about my being too direct. I get that from my father. (smile) But I grew up with some wonderful examples of Godly women, and I hope one day I can be like them. But I am a long way from perfect.

With that said, I believe your attempt at shifting the focus on me instead of the underlying issue is misplaced. Simply put, ministry leaders who use the word ANY in this context are wrong.

I used the example of divorce as a way to sever a relationship. But what about our children? Are we to sever the relationship with our children because we think they're holding us back from a Godly existence. Of course not!

I think in this context I would take it to mean relationships pulling you away from God. Mainly friends. I wouldn't consider a spouse or child. Maybe he needed to be more specific? I would expect more to hear that in a youth group than adults. But thats just my take.

Likewise, I do not think it is okay for a ministry leader to say divorce is okay. As it is, young women are presented with enough excuses from our fallen world for leaving their husbands. They do not need another one from our church leaders.

I certainly believe marriage is sacred and not to be taken lightly. My sister has stayed in a marriage that at times has been mentally abusive, if not physically, I do not know. I have never tried to force her to divorce, though at times I felt she should, I try to be a support for what she feels is right to do. She had the papers one day to give him and all I asked is that she wait till my husband and I could get there for her protection. Her husband comes to my parents sometimes, not often. My husband can't stand him but I remind him he's our nephews father, and her husband, we have to respect that. It hasn't been easy, but until she makes the choice it's not up to me to do it for her. She will regret it and go back. She has been married 20 yrs. I do not know how with all she has faced. But she is faithful. Now she is a Godly woman. I don't think I could face what she has, and raised two wonderful, respectful young men. So I do understand the other side brother. Any time a marriage ends I believe God grieves.

 

[SteveEpperson]

I think in this context I would take it to mean relationships pulling you away from God. Mainly friends. I wouldn't consider a spouse or child. Maybe he needed to be more specific? I would expect more to hear that in a youth group than adults. But thats just my take.

Okay, so I think we are on the same page, at least. Ministry leaders have to be careful. That's all I am trying to convey.

I certainly believe marriage is sacred and not to be taken lightly. My sister has stayed in a marriage that at times has been mentally abusive, if not physically, I do not know.

That's a whole different story, altogether. Physical and mental abuse is never to be tolerated, and I would agree with at least seeking counseling as an ultimatum.

What I'm talking about is ending the marriage simply because you feel your spouse is not "Christian enough." Satan is telling you these lies to break you up, and unfortunately, too many in our congregations are buying into it.

Any time a marriage ends I believe God grieves.

We have to remember that Satan is behind every divorce, and we should not be too quick to judge either spouse.

 

[BeeThePeace]

The One Word That Can Shred Your Family to Pieces


The other day, I was led in prayer by a ministry leader with several other people in attendance. The focus was on our commitment to the Lord, a worthy subject, no doubt.



However, there was one part of the prayer that I was not in agreement with. I will quote it the best I can:



"Lord, we are willing to leave ANY relationship if it is pushing us away from you."



While this sounds reasonable, I am not sure God would agree. I go back to what Jesus said in Mathew 19:8:



He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."



We have to assume that Jesus also talked about wives divorcing their husbands. Our Lord and savior states it pretty clearly here:



"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18



So, for those women bent on playing "musical husbands," all because they cannot seem to find the perfect one, they will be held to account.



I already know the rebuttal coming my way:



Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor. 16:14



You can always count on this being the ONE verse that every young wife in the church has memorized. This is her trump card. If that no-good husband of hers doesn't start proving that he can rise to everyone else's expectations, she will play her hand.



For example, according to every pastor in North America, he needs to:

• Provide, not just a little, but everything our society says we all need to have. Not only that, but what everyone else in the church has as well.
• Be a perfect husband, period.
• Be a perfect father, period.
• Be a perfect disciple of Christ, despite the church doors being locked 166 hours out of each week.
• Be the rock of the family, despite having little support from anyone in the church.

Be, be, be. And if you are not, the implicit message to your wife is:



"It's okay, honey, you can leave him. He probably isn't really a Christian, anyway."



As one who has been on the receiving end of having my family ripped to shreds, I am begging for ministry leaders to go quiet. Just stop talking already!



Think about what you are truly saying before you say it. In my example above, the word ANY can have devastating consequences.

Maybe the ministry leader was alluding to their own relationship. A subtle implication for their own spouse to consider.

 

[kaylagrl]

Okay, so I think we are on the same page, at least. Ministry leaders have to be careful. That's all I am trying to convey.

Yeah, it seems a very odd thing to say. I believe I would go and ask exactly what he meant.

That's a whole different story, altogether. Physical and mental abuse is never to be tolerated, and I would agree with at least seeking counseling as an ultimatum.

Yes, they have had counseling, but within the church there is a lot lacking in my opinion when it comes to these issues. He refuses to change. She has said she feels God has called her to stay in her marriage. She's an adult, I cannot argue with that. I've been there when it gets bad, he has "good" times. I try to be there for her while avoiding him. In their early marriage I was single and he seemed to think he married both sisters. He found out very quickly he did not. We have a respect because of their children, but he knows where he stands with me. I hate to see all she has gone through, but all I can do is be there until she feels released to go.

What I'm talking about is ending the marriage simply because you feel your spouse is not "Christian enough." Satan is telling you these lies to break you up, and unfortunately, too many in our congregations are buying into it.

I have honestly never encountered this. What would make one not Christian enough. Is this a church you attended or more than one place?

We have to remember that Satan is behind every divorce, and we should not be too quick to judge either spouse.

If I had marriage issues I don't know who I would go to. I find the church has no idea about counseling. And I wouldn't want to go to a secular counselor. So far I haven't had the need. But sure don't know where I could go if we did.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Maybe the ministry leader was alluding to their own relationship. A subtle implication for their own spouse to consider.

I never considered that. It's an interesting thought, though. That would be considered passive-aggressive, wouldn't it?

 

[BeeThePeace]

I never considered that. It's an interesting thought, though. That would be considered passive-aggressive, wouldn't it?

Maybe.

If that was the case, my prior hypothetical, the prayer leader may have been trying to gain prayerful support for that personal relationship matter as well as get the attention of a spouse that may otherwise be in denial.

 

[Polar]

You referred to the person leading the prayer as a ministry leader and not the Pastor. I would hope the Pastor would not concur with that prayer but I would ask him.

You can always count on this being the ONE verse that every young wife in the church has memorized. This is her trump card. If that no-good husband of hers doesn't start proving that he can rise to everyone else's expectations, she will play her hand.

That sounds very harsh, Every young wife? Sorry, but you sound like you may have had a bad experience with someone but that does not mean every woman thinks like that.

I would talk to the Pastor and see what he thinks about that.

 

[SteveEpperson]

You referred to the person leading the prayer as a ministry leader and not the Pastor. I would hope the Pastor would not concur with that prayer but I would ask him.

So, you would concur that the word ANY, in this case, would be stretching it too far?

That sounds very harsh, Every young wife? Sorry, but you sound like you may have had a bad experience with someone but that does not mean every woman thinks like that.

I could probably edit that sentence to read "every young wife has the potential to play that trump card." Although I still stand by my statement that they already have too many excuses laid out before them to leave their husbands. Why plant even more bad seeds?

 

[SteveEpperson]

I hate to see all she has gone through, but all I can do is be there until she feels released to go.

I sincerely empathize with your sister. However, I am not sure basing it on her feelings is the right way to go. It has to be based on what the word of God says, and too many believers, young women especially, base their actions on their emotions.

I have honestly never encountered this. What would make one not Christian enough. Is this a church you attended or more than one place?

If I had marriage issues I don't know who I would go to. I find the church has no idea about counseling. And I wouldn't want to go to a secular counselor. So far I haven't had the need. But sure don't know where I could go if we did.

I found this article today while searching for statistics on Christian marriages and divorce. Although it did not answer my question specifically, I was quite shocked at what the author says is going on in the modern church today.

Apparently, there is more than meets the eye. If you have time, it is very enlightening.

 

[Subhumanoidal]

Sounds a bit nit-picky. Rather than come on a forum to bring others in to make guesses and assumptions about what he meant, why not go to him and ask instead?
Some people use certain words as a generality, but may not mean anything specific. This is something I do regularly. It is how I grew up speaking and at times it confuses some people as it causes them to misunderstand my intent. Mostly this doesn't happen, but it has on occasion.
I think to assume so much and take it public to bring others into your guessing about another's intent is not the proper way to handle this. This is more akin to gossip than anything fruitful.

But, really, if you're in a marriage this is actively suppressing and discouraging your walk, and having a real affect, is it where God wants a person to stay? Does God want your obedience about marriage to be so stringent if it leads to the collapse of your faith all together? Which takes priority?

 

[SteveEpperson]

But, really, if you're in a marriage this is actively suppressing and discouraging your walk, and having a real affect, is it where God wants a person to stay? Does God want your obedience about marriage to be so stringent if it leads to the collapse of your faith all together? Which takes priority?

I get what you're saying. However, I would encourage you to read this article written by a Christian counselor with many years of experience dealing with marriage. It is quite an eye-opener.

 

[GardenofWeeden]

Someone probably already mentioned this, but...
The thing with your statements is that you are talking about divorce, but at least two of the verses posted aren't about divorce, but about remarriage. One isn't ALWAYS synonymous with the other. Just because a person gets separated or divorced, doesn't mean they are out looking for the next conquest. They could be looking to repair their relationship with the Lord. They could be escaping abuse, or they could be trying to get sober, among other reasons, but just because someone is getting separated or divorced, that doesn't mean they are looking for the bigger better deal, regardless of gender. And for this matter, just because one separates doesn't mean they will divorce for certain.
I do agree, however, that separation or divorce is a terrible thing, kills marriage and families and should only be pursued in extreme environments. I also believe it is necessary in some relationships for the protection of all involved, including children. God may hate divorce, but I am fairly certain He would also hate for His beloved children to live in fear, regret, shame and a host of other causes for divorce.

That's just my opinion, though, y'all are free to your own (in other words I won't debate it )
Peace!!

 

[Runningman]

The One Word That Can Shred Your Family to Pieces


The other day, I was led in prayer by a ministry leader with several other people in attendance. The focus was on our commitment to the Lord, a worthy subject, no doubt.



However, there was one part of the prayer that I was not in agreement with. I will quote it the best I can:



"Lord, we are willing to leave ANY relationship if it is pushing us away from you."



While this sounds reasonable, I am not sure God would agree. I go back to what Jesus said in Mathew 19:8:



He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so."



We have to assume that Jesus also talked about wives divorcing their husbands. Our Lord and savior states it pretty clearly here:



"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18



So, for those women bent on playing "musical husbands," all because they cannot seem to find the perfect one, they will be held to account.



I already know the rebuttal coming my way:



Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2 Cor. 16:14



You can always count on this being the ONE verse that every young wife in the church has memorized. This is her trump card. If that no-good husband of hers doesn't start proving that he can rise to everyone else's expectations, she will play her hand.



For example, according to every pastor in North America, he needs to:

• Provide, not just a little, but everything our society says we all need to have. Not only that, but what everyone else in the church has as well.
• Be a perfect husband, period.
• Be a perfect father, period.
• Be a perfect disciple of Christ, despite the church doors being locked 166 hours out of each week.
• Be the rock of the family, despite having little support from anyone in the church.

Be, be, be. And if you are not, the implicit message to your wife is:



"It's okay, honey, you can leave him. He probably isn't really a Christian, anyway."



As one who has been on the receiving end of having my family ripped to shreds, I am begging for ministry leaders to go quiet. Just stop talking already!



Think about what you are truly saying before you say it. In my example above, the word ANY can have devastating consequences.

People often use the cover of prayer to air their grievances and complain because it’s difficult to confront someone over their prayer to God. Sometimes prayers from a “ministry leader” or really anyone might contain gossip and other passive-aggressive thoughts.

That isn’t an accident as it is most likely a power-play used to control other people in the congregation.

They’re leading the prayer, they’re doing the talking, dozens or hundreds or more people are listening, and you have to sit there, grind your teeth, and bare it. Now you’re here complaining about it. Let me guess, this ministry leader’s prayer are always this annoying?

 

[SteveEpperson]

First, I would like to say, as you are a true woman of God, I value your opinion greatly.

The thing with your statements is that you are talking about divorce, but at least two of the verses posted aren't about divorce, but about remarriage.

I would encourage you not to get into a game of semantics, here. Remarriage means you had to divorce from your first marriage. And since Satan is behind ALL divorces, it is all bad.

Just because a person gets separated or divorced, doesn't mean they are out looking for the next conquest. They could be looking to repair their relationship with the Lord. They could be escaping abuse, or they could be trying to get sober, among other reasons,

To a point, I agree. However, I would encourage you, especially if you have a position of authority in your church, not to rationalize reasons for divorce. Separation for a period of time may be good for a marriage--that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about looking for reasons for a young wife to divorce instead of looking for reasons to stay together. My hope is that pastors and ministry leaders will think first before speaking about ending relationships.

And for this matter, just because one separates doesn't mean they will divorce for certain.

Correct. I think separation for a set period, in certain circumstances, is very good for a marriage.

I do agree, however, that separation or divorce is a terrible thing, kills marriage and families and should only be pursued in extreme environments.

Yes, and if we can convey that message to married people in the church, instead of loosely telling everyone to end ALL relationships that WE think are not good for us, I think pastors and church leaders would have fewer divorces to deal with. We can then move on to making true disciples and evangelists instead of mere spectators.

I also believe it is necessary in some relationships for the protection of all involved, including children. God may hate divorce, but I am fairly certain He would also hate for His beloved children to live in fear, regret, shame and a host of other causes for divorce.

Again, I agree with you here only a little. It's the "whole host of other causes for divorce" that I am worried about. In God's perfect plan, there is absolutely NO cause for divorce. That's because God is an absolutist; His perfect moral law still stands, even for those who follow Christ in 2022.

I admit I do not have all the answers. So, if you can set aside a few minutes, I would encourage you to read this informative article on the subject. It was written by a Christian counselor who has to deal with this issue every day.

 

[GardenofWeeden]

First, I would like to say, as you are a true woman of God, I value your opinion greatly.



I would encourage you not to get into a game of semantics, here. Remarriage means you had to divorce from your first marriage. And since Satan is behind ALL divorces, it is all bad.



To a point, I agree. However, I would encourage you, especially if you have a position of authority in your church, not to rationalize reasons for divorce. Separation for a period of time may be good for a marriage--that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about looking for reasons for a young wife to divorce instead of looking for reasons to stay together. My hope is that pastors and ministry leaders will think first before speaking about ending relationships.



Correct. I think separation for a set period, in certain circumstances, is very good for a marriage.



Yes, and if we can convey that message to married people in the church, instead of loosely telling everyone to end ALL relationships that WE think are not good for us, I think pastors and church leaders would have fewer divorces to deal with. We can then move on to making true disciples and evangelists instead of mere spectators.



Again, I agree with you here only a little. It's the "whole host of other causes for divorce" that I am worried about. In God's perfect plan, there is absolutely NO cause for divorce. That's because God is an absolutist; His perfect moral law still stands, even for those who follow Christ in 2022.

I admit I do not have all the answers. So, if you can set aside a few minutes, I would encourage you to read this informative article on the subject. It was written by a Christian counselor who has to deal with this issue every day.

This isn't the first time I have read this article. And while I agree with what he is saying in general, I have to ask, how does he know who is an who isn't a Christian? I don't ask this to be snarky or argumentative, I sincerely want to know, because people lie. Even many "believers" lie. If a self proclaimed Christian abandons his/her spouse, then what fruit does this person have that shows their belief? I'm not saying he is wrong in that Christians shouldn't divorce and all, but if one spouse leaves the marriage and sends the other a writ of divorcement, then as a believer I have to think or wonder why 1 Cor 7:15 doesn't apply here? The spouse who left isn't exhibiting their belief, making them most likely an unbeliever. I don't know what the answers are, I just know that God is Love, and while Love can cover a multitude of sins, that doesn't mean that our feeble minds could possibly ever treat life perfectly (as Love itself can) even as a Believer. We can strive to, but we will fail, because ALL fall short. So telling/accusing other believers that all divorce is sinful isn't showing the characteristics of Love anymore than divorce does, so which one is really wrong? Just things to think about.
Oh well back to my garden where life makes sense
Peace.

 

[SteveEpperson]

People often use the cover of prayer to air their grievances and complain because it’s difficult to confront someone over their prayer to God.

You run into that sometimes, but I don't think this is the case, since it was a congregation of over 500 I was with, in this instance.

Now you’re here complaining about it. Let me guess, this ministry leader’s prayer are always this annoying?

I'm not so sure it's an annoyance more than a concern. I have been referring to this article the entire thread. I think the Christian counselor who wrote it hits the nail on the head. I believe this is a subject we need to address in the larger church. Just my opinion.