The Old vs The New Covenant

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YWPMI said:
Here's how I look at it: The law was brought forth to show the sinfulness of man.
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That is only ONE ASPECT of the Law. We need to also clearly understand the beneficial effects of the Law of Moses. Paul says that the Law was (1) ordained to life, (2) it was good, (3) it was spiritual. These are not the words of Paul but the words of the Holy Spirit. So Christians have a duty to understand these positive aspects of the Law.

And we also need to see that because it was deficient it is now null and void. This is where the epistle to the Hebrews come in. There is absolutely no comparison between Moses (the servant) and Christ the Son (who is God).

Everyone who now tries to keep the Old Covenant alive is in direct disobedience to God. In direct rebellion to Christ. And this applies to all unconverted Jews.
 
I agree, Nehemiah6. The Old law was done away with. We have now Newness of life in Christ.... where it is that if you truly love YHWH; if you truly believe in the Savior, there is nothing you would do against The Word. Why would anyone want to live in the old when we can have the new! :D
 
Guojing said:
If you are a Jew and a Christian now, then you are in the body of Christ, like the rest of us.

You are not considered the house of Israel and Judah as stated in Hebrews 8:8
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That's false. Even Paul remained of his tribe after he converted.

Rom_11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Note to mention the 144k Jewish Christians from the 12 tribes.
 
ewq1938 said:
That's false. Even Paul remained of his tribe after he converted.

Rom_11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Note to mention the 144k Jewish Christians from the 12 tribes.
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The nation of Israel is currently fallen and an enemy to the gospel (Romans 11:11, Romans 11:28).

There will be a future restoration for the nation of course, that will happen during the Tribulation.

You may remain a Jew physically of course, but you are now as uncircumcised as any of us gentiles. We are all saved by being in the Body of Christ.
 
Guojing said:
The nation of Israel is currently fallen and an enemy to the gospel (Romans 11:11, Romans 11:28).

There will be a future restoration for the nation of course, that will happen during the Tribulation.

You may remain a Jew physically of course, but you are now as uncircumcised as any of us gentiles. We are all saved by being in the Body of Christ.
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Circumcision is of the heart and all Christians are therefore circumcised, Rom 2:29
 
ewq1938 said:
Circumcision is of the heart and all Christians are therefore circumcised, Rom 2:29
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You can of course define circumcision as that, I am fine.

But my point is that the House of Israel is currently fallen in the eyes of God, regardless of whatever form of circumcision you hold.
 
Guojing said:
You can of course define circumcision as that, I am fine.

But my point is that the House of Israel is currently fallen in the eyes of God, regardless of whatever form of circumcision you hold.
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Those are the ones who reject Christ. They will never have a covenant with God unless they repent.

All Christians currently are under the new covenant as Christ said just before he went to the cross.
 
GiveThanks said:
What is the difference between the old and the new covenant?

When Christians say they are not under the law, what does that mean? What does it mean that the law is abolished?

If we are not under law then surely, this means that we can do as we please doesn't it?

And if we dont have any laws to follow then what is the purpose of reading the bible?
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The Book of Hebrews gives the best explanation, especially chapters 7 through 10.
 
ewq1938 said:
Those are the ones who reject Christ. They will never have a covenant with God unless they repent.

All Christians currently are under the new covenant as Christ said just before he went to the cross.
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Matthew 15:24 made it clear that, before the cross at least, Christ was not sent BUT to the House of Israel.
 
Guojing said:
Matthew 15:24 made it clear that, before the cross at least, Christ was not sent BUT to the House of Israel.
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Actually the manuscripts say "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
 
ewq1938 said:
Actually the manuscripts say "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
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I know, but the point is the House of Israel, not gentiles.
 
Guojing said:
We don't become the House of Israel after we are saved.

We are a new creation, the Body of Christ
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Actually gentiles do become Jews according to scripture:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 
ewq1938 said:
Actually gentiles do become Jews according to scripture:

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
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Okay, ultimately, you have to believe that "Christians become Jews", in order for you to hold the doctrine that the Body of Christ is also under the New Covenant.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
That is only ONE ASPECT of the Law. We need to also clearly understand the beneficial effects of the Law of Moses. Paul says that the Law was (1) ordained to life, (2) it was good, (3) it was spiritual. These are not the words of Paul but the words of the Holy Spirit. So Christians have a duty to understand these positive aspects of the Law.

And we also need to see that because it was deficient it is now null and void. This is where the epistle to the Hebrews come in. There is absolutely no comparison between Moses (the servant) and Christ the Son (who is God).

Everyone who now tries to keep the Old Covenant alive is in direct disobedience to God. In direct rebellion to Christ. And this applies to all unconverted Jews.
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If your interpretation of scripture is correct then we cannot trust God at all. You say God made all God spoke to Moses null and void. If any promise given by our creator can be cancelled, taken away at His whim, then we cannot trust God. God promised us eternal life, if God will cancel promises, God could cancel that promise as well. We could not trust God.

You can believe this about God if you choose, but for me--I trust the Lord. I think some things are obsolete, but I don't think God cancelled anything God promised.
 
book of Hebrews explains it to the Hebrews, book of Romans explains it to the Romans.
as the gentiles (Romans) were not under the law of moses they are given grace and are grafted in is how I explain it.

why should gentiles read the Bible. well if they are believers they will read the new testament and the old testament is mainly for edification, since so much of the old testament is referenced in the new.

I know it seems backward for some people, but reading about Jesus ancestors history just gives us a greater appreciation for what God has done. And it really becomes OUR history if we are adopted into Gods family.

Jesus crucifixtion really was the payment of sin for breaking the israelites old covenant. This is significant for us why because NOBODY but Jesus could keep free from sin. Yet Jesus paid for all the sin of mankind.

If we are covered by Jesus blood then our hearts are changed so that we would follow the new covenant that only gives us two commandments to love God and to love one another. Against which is no law.
 
Lanolin said:
book of Hebrews explains it to the Hebrews, book of Romans explains it to the Romans.
as the gentiles (Romans) were not under the law of moses they are given grace and are grafted in is how I explain it..
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Make sense!!!

It was not the gentiles that were given grace, EVERYONE is given grace. Grace means that we are forgiven our sins, NOT that we are not to listen to the law. Grace means we are not judged by how we are obedient but how we accept Christ in our life, and if we accept Christ we accept that we are made righteous to live like Christ---as ones who listens to the law and wills to be obedient.

That means that the new covenant did not wipe out the law, cancel the law, take back every promise God made to man.
 
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