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The Nice Guy
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Well, like all questions let's look up!.... "For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-control." 2 Timothy 1:7.
Now some will say we must be be bold, and they forget that the self-control and demeanor of Jesus He has given us must coincide with that. To say they have "a right" to be kind in this unkind manner, for they have "a right" to articulate Gods judgement for God.... not realizing God says we are to judge from "Gods right" to judge thru us, not our own. For if we are a true believer we are married with God in His judgements never to venture on our own.
On the other side we have some who say kindness is what is the point. Boldness is meanness and thus, must be pompous piety. It must be eliminated as our enemy, it is never to have purpose in a Christians life, it is the same as the non-christians spite, in essence they claim a ,"Live and let live" mentality should prevail supreme because we all sin, God's mercy covers all of us -always and regardless of anything, sin becomes a mere mention of what we all used to be under never to approach the here and now ever again.. And they forget the first part of boldness thru no timidity and they misunderstand the fullness of His incomparable power in the riches of truth from the whole of the gospel. A gospel which, leads by way of truth to grace and forgiveness only and never condemnation.
Bottom line is the placement of love in our lives, since God is love, is whether we have loves perspective on this passage. Is there a balance? Are our eye's on the heavens, on God's eye-sight? or the concerns and crisis' of man,the tyranny of the urgent, the ability to manage such idealistic thoughts of God's versions on things? The inability to do what God wants, does it make human reasoning and human merits alone become the Jesus of our walk? Do we sprinkle Jesus in as we control our pliability button with God, to have to bear the grind of God's narrow purity, availed in us thru the relationship of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ??
This is the foundation of our faith, this issue, it is not a cute note of interest to me it is one of the most serious things in my life.... to understand that there are different personalities in Christ but only one demeanor. The demeanor of love thru kindness set out to confidently love people enough to do Gods will and purposes, thru the loyalty and integrity of the gospels message.
Now some will say we must be be bold, and they forget that the self-control and demeanor of Jesus He has given us must coincide with that. To say they have "a right" to be kind in this unkind manner, for they have "a right" to articulate Gods judgement for God.... not realizing God says we are to judge from "Gods right" to judge thru us, not our own. For if we are a true believer we are married with God in His judgements never to venture on our own.
On the other side we have some who say kindness is what is the point. Boldness is meanness and thus, must be pompous piety. It must be eliminated as our enemy, it is never to have purpose in a Christians life, it is the same as the non-christians spite, in essence they claim a ,"Live and let live" mentality should prevail supreme because we all sin, God's mercy covers all of us -always and regardless of anything, sin becomes a mere mention of what we all used to be under never to approach the here and now ever again.. And they forget the first part of boldness thru no timidity and they misunderstand the fullness of His incomparable power in the riches of truth from the whole of the gospel. A gospel which, leads by way of truth to grace and forgiveness only and never condemnation.
Bottom line is the placement of love in our lives, since God is love, is whether we have loves perspective on this passage. Is there a balance? Are our eye's on the heavens, on God's eye-sight? or the concerns and crisis' of man,the tyranny of the urgent, the ability to manage such idealistic thoughts of God's versions on things? The inability to do what God wants, does it make human reasoning and human merits alone become the Jesus of our walk? Do we sprinkle Jesus in as we control our pliability button with God, to have to bear the grind of God's narrow purity, availed in us thru the relationship of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ??
This is the foundation of our faith, this issue, it is not a cute note of interest to me it is one of the most serious things in my life.... to understand that there are different personalities in Christ but only one demeanor. The demeanor of love thru kindness set out to confidently love people enough to do Gods will and purposes, thru the loyalty and integrity of the gospels message.
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A couple of things jump out at me from your posts. You will not be able to find a good balance of nice vs pushover or kind vs jerky if you are trying to determine what women want and using their desires as some kind of measuring stick or goal. Do your best to be what God wants you to be, and any reasonable woman will want nothing else for or from you. I know that being what God wants you to be is easier said than done, but it seems to me that you're largely overthinking it because you're approaching it from the "how do I be what women want" angle. But of course that's a confusing thing to figure out, because every woman wants something different... and besides, women (humans in general, because humans are flawed and sinful, but I say women because of the context) will sometimes want things that are selfish or unreasonable. That doesn't mean that you should do or become that thing just because it is what a woman wants.
But all of this honestly is more simple than it seems... generally speaking, we know what is good and right and pure and proper. If we don't, we ask God for wisdom. And there are a ton of specifics in the bible, too: Be slow to speak and slow to anger, but quick to listen. Be patient. Kind. Do not seek your own, so do not be manipulative or selfish. If you notice selfishness in something you do, take it to God. Ask Him to change you. If you notice pride? Do the same thing. Any one of various other fleshly attitudes? Do the same thing. Be conscious of your actions and ask God to search your heart and make your motives right. God will answer prayers for personal growth. He wants us to be what He told us to be, and He will absolutely help us do it. And maybe there's even someone in your life that you trust, an older guy at church perhaps, that you could ask for input or advice about what to work on.
I am going to be blunt here: if you think this book is responsible for the recent changes in your attitude, then I think you should throw it in the trash. There's a reason why you are not at peace with the latest version of yourself.
Now we're getting somewhere! Look back at my post, #74. I don't care what you think of me, but I do care that you learn something in this life. You know your weakness, that's good. In fact, that's awesome! You're better off than most people who don't know their weakness. So in a weird twist of dynamics, in our weakness we are made stronger. Remind you of a particular Scripture?
What you don't realize is that you don't need to overcompensate your insecurities with a Billy-bad-boy attitude all the time, especially over the internet, it carries no weight. When you're wrong, you're wrong. So what? I was wrong once (just kidding). Being wrong and making mistakes is how we learn and grow.
Now, does righteous indignation have its place? You better believe it. Jesus overturned the tables; He called out Pharisees, He scolded Peter and referred to him as Satan. I share my indignation on the BDF all the time. Is it always righteous? Not always, but usually. Am I insecure? No, my friend, not at this stage in life. I've done too much and endured too much to be insecure. In fact, I posted a few weeks ago in another thread whereby I encouraged people to overcome their insecurities. I forgot which thread but I'll look it up.
So this is a great moment. Now, ask me what you will, or don't, that's on you. We can learn together, the choice is yours. Now its time for me to go beat up some Pharisees in the BDF.
N
nw2u
Guest
So, I'm reading this thread and realize how far off the rails it went. It's really sad, but I think human.
So, the thoughts I have about this modern definition of a nice guy are complicated and difficult to put into words. One way to describe it is with a question.
How many women here have dated a man who, when she asked where he wanted to eat Friday night on their date, almost always had no opinion. His answer might have been, "Wherever you want to go". Time after time it seems like he does this. How did that make you feel?
How many women here dated a man who, when you asked him to do something for you, did it, but then expected something in return later which was never discussed prior, and then he got passive aggressive when you said no?
How many women here dated a man who, only wanted to be clingy, constantly wanting to know what you were doing, and seemed to be always under foot? How did that make you feel?
How many women here dated a man who didn't have any decent male friends he could go fishing with on occasion(or insert whatever hobby you might find unoffensive or not detrimental for a decent Christian man)? What did you think when you realized he didn't have his own life?
These are a few of the things a "nice guy", not the kind Utah is talking about because that's the old term and still valid, might do. He is not usually kind. He seems to be looking to get something out of whatever he does, many times, because he is doing way too much and being too clingy.
I doubt I explained that well enough. I tried.
What would really be interesting would be to have had someone post some Godly things a man can do in his life with real life examples for today. I actually thought that's where this thread was headed and why I popped in. I thought it would be interesting and enlightening from a biblical standpoint. I guess I was wrong. Sometimes I'm sorry I try.
So, the thoughts I have about this modern definition of a nice guy are complicated and difficult to put into words. One way to describe it is with a question.
How many women here have dated a man who, when she asked where he wanted to eat Friday night on their date, almost always had no opinion. His answer might have been, "Wherever you want to go". Time after time it seems like he does this. How did that make you feel?
How many women here dated a man who, when you asked him to do something for you, did it, but then expected something in return later which was never discussed prior, and then he got passive aggressive when you said no?
How many women here dated a man who, only wanted to be clingy, constantly wanting to know what you were doing, and seemed to be always under foot? How did that make you feel?
How many women here dated a man who didn't have any decent male friends he could go fishing with on occasion(or insert whatever hobby you might find unoffensive or not detrimental for a decent Christian man)? What did you think when you realized he didn't have his own life?
These are a few of the things a "nice guy", not the kind Utah is talking about because that's the old term and still valid, might do. He is not usually kind. He seems to be looking to get something out of whatever he does, many times, because he is doing way too much and being too clingy.
I doubt I explained that well enough. I tried.
What would really be interesting would be to have had someone post some Godly things a man can do in his life with real life examples for today. I actually thought that's where this thread was headed and why I popped in. I thought it would be interesting and enlightening from a biblical standpoint. I guess I was wrong. Sometimes I'm sorry I try.
Yeah, that's what I was hoping for when I initially posted this thread. As mentioned, I feel I'm taking things a little too far from what the book I bought is suggesting, and I can honestly say I don't really like it. I did ask how can one differentiate from being "too nice" without coming off as a jerk. I've asked what makes a person "kind" and "good" but not nice. I haven't seen those questions been answered, unfortunately. To those that have responded and not started slinging mud, thank you. You've been kind enough to provide some insight.. Dare I say the word "nice".
M
MollyConnor
Guest
Nice - pleasant, agreeable, satisfactory.
Kindness - the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.
Good - to be desired or approved of.
These are their dictionary definitions. I couldn't use 'kind' by itself because that means 'a type of something.'
So I think we should all strive to be kind. We shouldn't be nice because we shouldn't agree on everything the world tells us about. We also shouldn't be approved because the Bible says we should stand out from nonbelievers. So in that way good doesn't fit either.
I know I had said earlier that nice guys are good guys and should be desired but looking at their definitions it seems to me that 'kindness' is the one Jesus would want us to be. And it's also one of the 9 Fruits of the Spirit from Galatians. But so is goodness. I know the word 'good' is used in the Bible especially when He's creating everything in Genesis.
So looking at it from a Christian viewpoint we should also be good as in desired and approved by the Lord.
Okay I looked up good in another dictionary and it means 'morally excellent.' So we should be both kind and good. Not necessarily nice. lol
Kindness - the quality of being friendly, generous, and considerate.
Good - to be desired or approved of.
These are their dictionary definitions. I couldn't use 'kind' by itself because that means 'a type of something.'
So I think we should all strive to be kind. We shouldn't be nice because we shouldn't agree on everything the world tells us about. We also shouldn't be approved because the Bible says we should stand out from nonbelievers. So in that way good doesn't fit either.
I know I had said earlier that nice guys are good guys and should be desired but looking at their definitions it seems to me that 'kindness' is the one Jesus would want us to be. And it's also one of the 9 Fruits of the Spirit from Galatians. But so is goodness. I know the word 'good' is used in the Bible especially when He's creating everything in Genesis.
So looking at it from a Christian viewpoint we should also be good as in desired and approved by the Lord.
Okay I looked up good in another dictionary and it means 'morally excellent.' So we should be both kind and good. Not necessarily nice. lol
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This is one of the better responses I have seen. Jesus says for if the world hates us then we are good (paraphrasing). So if we confirm to what the world wants us to do, then there's an issue. I mentioned earlier how it doesn't do any good if everyone agrees, because how can we learn from each other or have discussion or grow. What I still try to grasp is how does one go from being kind to being too kind, which turns to nice and not having a backbone, or from being on guard too much to the point where you turn into a self righteous jerk? I still don't know where the line falls, exactly.
S
Shouryu
Guest
Utah, Shawn, let us have a word, brothers. More specifically, let us have the Word.
He who corrects a coffer gets dishonor for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, reprove a wise man and he will love you. Prov 9:7-9
In the multitude of words, sin is not lacking; but he who restrains his lips is wise. Prov 10:19
He who is devoid of wisdom despises his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his peace. Prov 11:12
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. The tongue of the wise uses knowledge rightly, but the mouth of fools pours forth foolishness...A wrathful man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger allays contention. Prov 15:1-2, 18
The beginning of strife is like the releasing of water; therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts...He who has knowledge spares his words, and a man of understanding is of a calm spirit. Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; when he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive. Prov 17:14, 27-28
Happy is the man who is always reverent, but he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity. Prov 28:14
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth...Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Matt 5:5, 9
Brothers, we see no restraint, we see no reverence, we see no meekness. Both of you speak as if you have authority over each other, and yet authority is only given by God, and if you were speaking God's Word, we would see it in that which you speak. We do not see it. We see only strife and contention. Both of you, not one or the other of you, continue to provoke and prolong contentions, when either the conviction of the Spirit or the wisdom of the Word would have shown you thus:
And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Mark 6:11
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium. Acts 13:49-51
Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark. But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work. Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. Acts 15:37-39
It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. There comes a point when the person you are speaking to is not listening, and Christ, Paul, and Barnabas show us that it is better to shake the dust from your feet, and WALK AWAY. But why don't we do that? We do we have to be right, to the bitter end, brother? Because of our FLESH. Because of our EGOS.
What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? [James is speaking to members of the early church.]...Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you to judge your neighbor? James 4:1, 11-12
If you were in the Spirit on this, we would have come to a point where would say, "ENOUGH!" and walk away. We are not told who was in the right concerning the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas, but there came a point where they simply ended it and walked away.
I know these things because I myself have spoken in a similar manner as the two of you on these very forums, and I too have come under the conviction of the Spirit for allowing my flesh and ego to speak to my brothers and sisters in such a manner. Of this wrongdoing, I am chief! I have been called out for speaking in such a manner, and felt the sting and humiliation that comes with having to publicly acknowledge that I had not spoken to my brothers in the manner instructed by Solomon, by Paul, by James, by Christ.
But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men...from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. James 3:9-12
Has there been cursing between the two of you? These shall be the only quotations of yours that I shall point out:
It doesn't matter that you think you're justified by "righteous indignation." It doesn't matter who is right between the two of you. It doesn't matter who started it. The contention between the two of you has completely eclipsed whatever points you were trying to make, and now, both of you have been reduced to this:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1
Your arguments have become NOISE. They are clatter, they have become a cacophony, because through these words, we see that YOU HAVE NOT LOVE. Jesus may have overturned tables and called out the scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and lawyers, but He NEVER stooped to petty insults and personal attacks. He spoke to their ACTIONS, He used their fruit to bear witness against them. What fruit has been seen of our words today?
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13:34-35
My brothers, put this behind you. No good can come of this. To continue further is an exercise in pride, to prove one's own correctness over the other. We must humble ourselves, step away from the contention, forgive each other in love, and leave the who's-right-and-who's-wrong to God, because clearly, it is not with any of us.
Peace and blessings,
Shour
He who corrects a coffer gets dishonor for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you, reprove a wise man and he will love you. Prov 9:7-9
In the multitude of words, sin is not lacking; but he who restrains his lips is wise. Prov 10:19
He who is devoid of wisdom despises his neighbor, but a man of understanding holds his peace. Prov 11:12
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. The tongue of the wise uses knowledge rightly, but the mouth of fools pours forth foolishness...A wrathful man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger allays contention. Prov 15:1-2, 18
The beginning of strife is like the releasing of water; therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts...He who has knowledge spares his words, and a man of understanding is of a calm spirit. Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; when he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive. Prov 17:14, 27-28
Happy is the man who is always reverent, but he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity. Prov 28:14
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth...Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God. Matt 5:5, 9
Brothers, we see no restraint, we see no reverence, we see no meekness. Both of you speak as if you have authority over each other, and yet authority is only given by God, and if you were speaking God's Word, we would see it in that which you speak. We do not see it. We see only strife and contention. Both of you, not one or the other of you, continue to provoke and prolong contentions, when either the conviction of the Spirit or the wisdom of the Word would have shown you thus:
And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Mark 6:11
And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city, raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium. Acts 13:49-51
Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark. But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work. Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. Acts 15:37-39
It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. There comes a point when the person you are speaking to is not listening, and Christ, Paul, and Barnabas show us that it is better to shake the dust from your feet, and WALK AWAY. But why don't we do that? We do we have to be right, to the bitter end, brother? Because of our FLESH. Because of our EGOS.
What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? [James is speaking to members of the early church.]...Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you to judge your neighbor? James 4:1, 11-12
If you were in the Spirit on this, we would have come to a point where would say, "ENOUGH!" and walk away. We are not told who was in the right concerning the disagreement between Paul and Barnabas, but there came a point where they simply ended it and walked away.
I know these things because I myself have spoken in a similar manner as the two of you on these very forums, and I too have come under the conviction of the Spirit for allowing my flesh and ego to speak to my brothers and sisters in such a manner. Of this wrongdoing, I am chief! I have been called out for speaking in such a manner, and felt the sting and humiliation that comes with having to publicly acknowledge that I had not spoken to my brothers in the manner instructed by Solomon, by Paul, by James, by Christ.
But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men...from the same mouth come both blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way. James 3:9-12
Has there been cursing between the two of you? These shall be the only quotations of yours that I shall point out:
It doesn't matter that you think you're justified by "righteous indignation." It doesn't matter who is right between the two of you. It doesn't matter who started it. The contention between the two of you has completely eclipsed whatever points you were trying to make, and now, both of you have been reduced to this:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 1 Cor 13:1
Your arguments have become NOISE. They are clatter, they have become a cacophony, because through these words, we see that YOU HAVE NOT LOVE. Jesus may have overturned tables and called out the scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, and lawyers, but He NEVER stooped to petty insults and personal attacks. He spoke to their ACTIONS, He used their fruit to bear witness against them. What fruit has been seen of our words today?
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13:34-35
My brothers, put this behind you. No good can come of this. To continue further is an exercise in pride, to prove one's own correctness over the other. We must humble ourselves, step away from the contention, forgive each other in love, and leave the who's-right-and-who's-wrong to God, because clearly, it is not with any of us.
Peace and blessings,
Shour
"The best way to draw the line is to refuse the drawing stick when it is handed to you."
It's an old quote, but it applies here. There is no line. Each situation faced by each person is different, and sometimes a given situation can change in minutes. There is no way to draw the line and say "You are being a doormat here, but this is right for a good person to do."
For example I used to provide transportation for a coworker. I started taking him to work in January. Since May he has been talking about getting his driver's license and a car. In August he was still talking about soon he'll get a driver's license. August 20th I told him I would stop taking him to work on September 10th - plenty of time to get a license. As of September 10th he... doesn't have a license, he's just getting someone else to take him to work now.
Was I being a doormat when I took him to work? Was it rude to tell him I was no longer going to take him to work? There's no way for you to know. In fact there's no way for my friends, or my family members who live right next door and talk to me almost every day to know. Come to think of it, there's no real way for ME to know for sure. All I know is I did what I thought was right at the time, and will continue to do what I think is right.
T
Tintin
Guest
I'm just royally peeved that I basically have to relearn everything. And I still haven't got a handle on this confidence thing.
Dagnamitt.
Dagnamitt.
M
MollyConnor
Guest
So...now that I've looked at the actual definitions of the words does nice guy mean 'pushover?' I guess in that sense, nice guys really do finish last...that was something I never thought to be true but now...maybe. It's all about the meaning of the words, I guess.
When someone actually agrees with me...
it just makes me feel confused.
: )
We have an even bigger problem with definitions than previously mentioned.
In language, it's "usage" that always determines "meaning".
Dictionaries don't actually "determine" meaning, they just sort of "report" on meaning...
and even that is only good for a very limited time, as language is always changing.
So what was that about?
It means that not only do people have many different definitions of "nice guy",
but all of those definitions are EQUALLY VALID (unless we all agree on a specific definition).
So, if 10 people have 10 different definitions of "nice guy",
all of those definitions are equally valid, and I don't really get to yell at any of them!
: )
(This isn't relativism, this is just how language works. Since "nice guy" is a common, pop culture kind of term, and not a "well defined technical term"... it's just NEVER going to have a clear meaning. BTW, this is the same reason many of our political debates on CC run off the rails.)
This is exactly why this same topic keeps coming up, and we keep having the exact same arguments.
We could forever rid ourselves of the phrase "nice guy" if we'd instead get a list of words from the bible.
We could create a nice list of bible words, that all describe a man's character, and then we'd never have to talk about "nice guy" again.
So, that's my challenge for you guys.
Come up with a list of character qualities, for a man, directly from scripture.
Lets see what God says a man is REALLY supposed to be like.
(I think a man is supposed to have a single, huge eyeball in his forehead...
but then again, I may be biased.)
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M
MollyConnor
Guest
BTW I'm not calling anyone on here a pushover. I don't think anyone is really that nice to the point where they are constantly being taken advantage of. Everyone has their limits and those limits are actually good things to have.
And even if someone is a pushover, the great thing is that God can give them the miracle of growing a backbone. This is something I'm just learning myself. There's nothing wrong with a process.
I got a PM from someone who thought I was talking about them so I apologize if it sounded that way. That wasn't my intention at all. I was really just thinking out loud. So sorry. God bless!
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J
jennymae
Guest
I think a pushover, be it a guy or a gal, isn't nice nor not nice. A pushover is, the way I see it, a person that has never come to terms with human interaction and is, for some reason, not able to display a self whenever other people are making demands.
G
GaryA
Guest
And, a small head - based on the pair of eye-glasses in that avatar...
"Man! You have to fit two ears and everything in there..."
Oh wait - I guess that would be
"the single of eye-glasses"
or
"the single of eye-glass"
or
"the single eye-glass"
or
"the eye-glass"
. . .Why don't you wear contacts? I mean, a contact?
. . .Why don't you have perfect vision?
G
GaryA
Guest
G
GaryA
Guest
"Oh! I know! ...one-eye vision-correction lens-holding apparatus / appliance..."
( or something like that )
Peace and blessings to you, Shouryu. Thank you for sharing as you have, and I will ponder it all. Just know, there's no pride here with me, my Brother, just finding it funny that someone who speaks against niceness gets so upset when someone is not nice to him. But I digress and revert back to post #104.