The Natural Man

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Before a person becomes a Christian.
Scripture calls them the natural man.
They have no ability to worship or serve God.
After salvation a believer can be led by the Spirit or be a spiritual man.
 
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jackrosie said:
The natural man does not have the spirit of God living in them.
The spiritual man produces the fruit of the Spirit.
The spiritual man is one who is characterised by the leading of the HolybSpirit.
The Bible encourages believers to let the Spirit lead them.
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All of your points are working on the assumption that the ' natural man ' is unsaved . Which is false . No one is preaching like this " ok you natural men ,let me tell you the Gospel . Jesus died for the sins of all natural men ( elected natural men to be saved ,according to Augustine and Calvin )
God has commanded all natural men everywhere to repent . "
 
1 cor 3:1
King James Bible
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I don't know if carnal means totally without belief or what.

jackrosie said:
The atural man does not have the spirit of God living in them.
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Was there a scripture that says that?

throughfaith said:
Pharaoh was not around to hear Paul speak about the wisdom Paul spoke to the mature believers .
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I know, but the principle still applied. He suffered for not believing.
 
jackrosie said:
Before a person becomes a Christian.
Scripture calls them the natural man.
They have no ability to worship or serve God.
After salvation a believer can be led by the Spirit or be a spiritual man.
Click to expand...
Before a person believes the Gospel ( eph 1 .13 -14 ) He is lost ( eph 2 .11-13) There is no mention of a lost person called ' the natural man '
 
throughfaith said:
All of your points are working on the assumption that the ' natural man ' is unsaved . Which is false . No one is preaching like this " ok you natural men ,let me tell you the Gospel . Jesus died for the sins of all natural men ( elected natural men to be saved ,according to Augustine and Calvin )
God has commanded all natural men everywhere to repent . "
Click to expand...



The natural man is unsaved...he is alienated from God....so rebuke you saying it’s false.

So we will have to agree to disagree...

I have also posted scripture,which you misinterpret differently from me....about the natural man.
 
DiscipleA said:
1 cor 3:1
King James Bible
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

I don't know if carnal means totally without belief or what.


Was there a scripture that says that?


I know, but the principle still applied. He suffered for not believing.
Click to expand...
Do you think Paul is speaking to these believers as unbelievers ? " alright mate ,fancy a pint later " . ? No he can only speak to them as of the ' milk ' rather than the meat .
as parrelled in Hebrews 5
11Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12¶For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil
 
DiscipleA said:
So the Corinthian Christians still had some things to learn at this point. Goes to show, when we believe, there is a learning and growing process for maturing spiritually.
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By all means. WE are born (again), are babes, are children, are young men and end as mature men. It takes a lifetime. But some mature later, and some need fiery trials, and some need severe chastisement - just like life. And the Corinthians did not have the advantage of 1,500 years of the Word and Morals of God like Israel. They came from a background of sensuality - as all pagans do. One can sympathize a bit with them.
 
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jackrosie said:
Before a person becomes a Christian.
Scripture calls them the natural man.
They have no ability to worship or serve God.
After salvation a believer can be led by the Spirit or be a spiritual man.
Click to expand...

I think that 1st Corinthians 15:44 shows that a man is natural until death, irrespective of his standing with God. Paul was born of the womb and thus "natural" till death. But he was not carnal. The grammar of Romans 8:12-14 makes clear that a Christian could be carnal:

12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."

The Greek word for "sons" in verse 14 refers to a mature man who can INHERIT. It is contrasted with "children" in verse 16. There the Greek only indicates "offspring" who are heirs by birth, but may not inherit.
 
I've always interpreted those verses to mean that a natural man (unsaved) does not receive or understand the things of the Spirit of God because he hasn't yet received Christ as Savior and thus hasn't received the Holy Spirit.

Once a person becomes a believer and has the indwelling of the Spirit, certain truths will be revealed and said person will be able to understand and discern them.
 
1 Cor 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Interesting.....just as a seed is sown in the ground and it has to die in order to produce a plant, our bodies are buried (sown) when they die and they are raised up a spiritual body.

What it all means I don't know. Oh, the many wonderous works of God!
 
How do we reconcile the gospel of John with the perception of this thread that the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit? John says that Light is come into the world and it lights every man in the world. Jesus speaks of men being confronted by the light and some turning back while some come to the light.

I agree that the natural man cannot understand many of the things the Spirit teaches but the natural man can understand the gospel and come to the point of decision as to the fact he must be saved or remain forever lost.

1 Corinthians does not exist in a vacuum. Lost sinners do not come to Christ with a PhD in Theology. They come to Christ with a PhD in sin. Gods grace intercedes or all men perish.

God is indeed sovereign in salvation but God does call every man to repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Corban said:
By all means. WE are born (again), are babes, are children, are young men and end as mature men. It takes a lifetime. But some mature later, and some need fiery trials, and some need severe chastisement - just like life. And the Corinthians did not have the advantage of 1,500 years of the Word and Morals of God like Israel. They came from a background of sensuality - as all pagans do. One can sympathize a bit with them.
Click to expand...
NotmebutHim said:
I've always interpreted those verses to mean that a natural man (unsaved) does not receive or understand the things of the Spirit of God because he hasn't yet received Christ as Savior and thus hasn't received the Holy Spirit.

Once a person becomes a believer and has the indwelling of the Spirit, certain truths will be revealed and said person will be able to understand and discern them.
Click to expand...
Yes sadly this is taught widely and even some translations mess this up like the Niv and the NET for example .
The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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