THE "MILLENNIUM" VS THE PRESENT KINGDOM OF GOD

PennEd · Oct 30, 2019

I don't read anywhere where Luke 1:32-33 speakS of a "Millennial Kingdom." Besides that, it is shameful to think that even though Jesus ascended to heaven after He triumphed over sin, death and the devil, and sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high (Heb. 1:3), Christians continue to believe He does nothing in heaven but doodle with His fingers until the manufactured Millennium takes place in the future.

I'd like to ask you one simple question. Please think about it before you respond, since Jesus is God and God has always reigned from heaven, how come you deny that?

Isaiah 66:1 (NIV)
"This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"

2 Chronicles 6:18 (NASB95)
18 “But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built."

Matthew 26:64 (NIV)
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

So, which of these scriptures are a lie?

Sorry. I can't answer yours til you answer mine.

When did Jesus sit on King David's earthly Throne, as promised to Mary by the Angel Gabriel?

Gentle-Warrior · Oct 30, 2019

PennEd said:

No it doesn't. It merely means that at the 1000 year mark of Christ's eternal reign, an event will take place. Satan released, an ungodly gathering against Jesus, and instant dismissal of the "bad' guys. Not even a fight.
Jesus then resumes His regularly scheduled eternity reigning![/QUOTE]

Except for one thing. The doctrine of the Millennium is not biblically based, especially when Jesus categorically said that His kingdom (eternal) is not of this world (Jn 18:36).

Jesus never once even hinted that He would reign on earth and neither one single writer of the scripture did that either.

Ahwatukee · Oct 30, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

It always amazes me, that the thousand year period is mentioned six times and many still don't take it as being literal.

I would also rhetorically ask, at what point in history after the flood did the lion ever eat straw like the ox, or when have prey and predator animals and their young ever lie down together? Since the answer is never and God's word must be fulfilled, then these events are still yet to come.

Gentle-Warrior · Oct 30, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

Rants? I think that you are the one hiding behind innuendos and unbiblical beliefs that the scriptures do not support. So, instead of accusing me of being "totally confused", why don't you prove your assertions, unless of course, you are the one who is totally confused?

1) Jesus never once hinted of an earthly kingdom. He said the opposite (Jn 18:36). None of His apostles hinted of an earthly kingdom either, especially once they understood what the finished work of redemption meant.
2) Since Jesus is GOD ALMIGHTY and cannot be separated from the Godhead (God is one), how would you explain the coming of God to earth to rule when He already rules from heaven? Are you thinking that Jesus needs to humble Himself again and come down to cater to Israel who is nothing but a political entity with absolutely no eternal significance?
3) Are you willing to split the Godhead to satisfy your unbiblical beliefs?

Give me scriptures that absolutely prove that Jesus will leave His throne in heaven and come down to reign on earth for 1,000 years. Skip Rev. 20, nothing there even hints about the Lord coming down to reign on earth.

Gentle-Warrior · Oct 30, 2019

Nehemiah6 said:

If you deny what I wrote?

Nehemiah6 said:

Pure, unadulterated suppositions that are based on nothing but carnal thinking. if you don't have scriptures that definitely prove that Jesus, God the Son, will come down to earth to reign over it for a lousy 1,000 years, prove it.

I don't need assumptions. I need proof.

Gentle-Warrior · Oct 30, 2019

PennEd said:

No it doesn't. It merely means that at the 1000 year mark of Christ's eternal reign, an event will take place. Satan released, an ungodly gathering against Jesus, and instant dismissal of the "bad' guys. Not even a fight.
/QUOTE]

Nope. God has always reigned from heaven (Isa. 66:1) unless you are willing to deny that Jesus is God. Do a search and find out one single comment in the entire Bible where it says that Messiah will reign on earth for 1,000 literal years.

Get back to me when you do... LOL!

PennEd · Oct 30, 2019

I'm sorry, was there an answer to the question amongst your accusations and ramblings?

Please answer. When did Jesus reign on King David's Throne, as promised to Mary by the Angel Gabriel?

Absolutely · Oct 31, 2019

Gentle-Warrior said:

There is no such thing as a "Millennial Kingdom." It is nothing but a man-made doctrine that was popularized by apostates like John Darby and C.I. Scofield.

Jesus never once mentioned an earthly kingdom and neither anyone else in the scriptures. Jesus even said, "My kingdom is not of this world" in Jn 18:36. Was He lying or did God change His mind?

God does not reign in time and space, He reigns in eternity from heaven.

Isaiah 66:1 (NIV)
"This is what the Lord says: “Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?"

2 Chronicles 6:18 (NASB95)
18 “But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold, heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain You; how much less this house which I have built."

Matthew 26:64 (NIV)
“You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

"...and after the mil satan is unleashed..."

Uh huh

Absolutely · Oct 31, 2019

Gentle-Warrior said:

you also have to ASSUME the gt is a memory of the past,as is the AC, and the raptures in the NT.

Gentle-Warrior · Oct 31, 2019

Absolutely said:

I can see I'm wasting my time here.

Gentle-Warrior · Oct 31, 2019

Absolutely said:

Keep reading and tell me where does it say in Rev. 20 that Jesus, God Almighty creator, Lord, and Redeemer, will come down to earth to reign as if He wasn't reigning now from the sphere of eternity.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 31, 2019

Gentle-Warrior said:

Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."

[this would be the OT prophets... who spoke both of His first advent and His second advent, but which the ppl of Jesus' day [that Peter is speaking to in Acts 3 (vv.12,14-15a,17,19,22,25-26)] overlooked/bypassed the "Suffering Servant" ASPECT [vv.13,26 "His SERVANT Jesus"], thus themselves having a hand in putting Him to death [vv.13b-15a,17,24 "THESE days" (the "Suffering Servant" ASPECT that they missed/overlooked/bypassed and consequently had a hand THEMSELVES in fulfilling those very things [His rejection and DEATH--that aspect])].

In Acts 3, there are TWO aspects of the "RAISE" word used in that chpt: ONE being that He was "raised" to a position of prominence BEFORE the Cross/His death; the OTHER being that He was "raised" from the dead AFTER the Cross/His death. By not distinguishing these, the "Amill-teachings" veer off course.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 31, 2019

Gentle-Warrior said:

And wasting everyone else's time also. Why start a thread when you are clueless about the subject?

garee · Nov 1, 2019

PennEd said:

David's literal throne is long gone. But God who is not a man as us is reigning sitting on the circle of the earth as King of kings.

garee · Nov 1, 2019

Gentle-Warrior said:

Yes, In respect to the Son of God. He never stopped reigning as our High Priest continually without beginning and end .

Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. Hebrews 7:3

How did the idea of dispensations a new innovation ever came about is the mystery.? Who came up with that idea to divide that which God calls one work of His faith? This is seeing the Son of God our High Priest from the foundation of the world purified the heart of Abel by a work of his faith or called a labor of His love working in Abel to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness) just as us today.

Acts 15:8-10 King James Version (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

TooFastTurtle · Nov 1, 2019

I believe the most important thing is being ready for Jesus to return. As long as people are not teaching a renewal of animal sacrifices and other extremely carnal views that denigrate our Lord Jesus Christ and His work I do not mind what eschatology views they hold to.

I believe a solid foundation can be built by looking at the words of Jesus Christ our Lord and build from that. Everything else must line up with what Jesus taught.

garee · Nov 1, 2019

The word thousand is used many times to hide the spiritual understanding according to the signified language of Revelation. Not only inspired but he also signified it giving us the spiritual understanding. . Hid from the literalist. It represents a unknown or concealed .

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:

Its an evil generation that seeks after a sign before they will believe. No sign is given . He will come on the last day . Six times in the book of John the Holy Spirit underlines his "last day" plan .He will come as a thief in the night. We can watch like Noah but it does not change the fact he will come as a thief .

The word thousand is used as a metaphor as to whatever is in view,. It always amazes me, that the thousand year period is mentioned six times in one chapter and many still don't take it as signified .This is even though any other place the words thousand years follows the same signified understating. It would seem that the literalist is not interested in rightly dividing the parables according to the prompt "as" or "though' not literally is

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but "as" yesterday when it is past, and "as" a watch in the night.

A undetermined time period

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

A undetermined time period

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

A undetermined time period

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 1, 2019

garee said:

1 Timothy 6:15 - [one of only TWO times in all of the epistles where "King" is used (both FUTURE)]

Which in his times he shall shew [/openly manifest], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Revelation 17:14 -

These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:16 -

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

[note: ^ Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 being parallel time-wise with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23--see also verse 23, which is parallel time-wise with 1Cor15:25-27 which follows His "RETURN" to the earth, Rev19], and which is followed by a time-period, after which, the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words will take place/be carried out (GWTj, Rev20:11-15)]

_____________________

Luke 1:31-33 -

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

[see also Daniel 7:27 "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heavens" which contextually is immediately after the specific time-period mentioned in verse 25 and the specific circumstances in vv.20-25a which is parallel to Rev13:5-7 (i.e. yet future)]

Isaiah 16:5 -

in loving devotion a throne will be established in the tent of David. A judge seeking justice and prompt in righteousness will sit on it in faithfulness.

Amos 9:11-12 -

“In that day I will restore the fallen tent of David. I will repair its gaps, restore its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old, so that they may possess the remnant of Edom and all the nations that bear My name,” declares the LORD, who will do this.

Acts 15:16-18 -

After this I will return and rebuild the fallen tent of David. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, so that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear My name, says the Lord who does these things that have been known for ages.'

Fine, but see the scriptures supplied at the top of this post.

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 1, 2019

garee said:

What is said OF HIM [HIMSELF] is that He will "come AS A THIEF. [period!]" (That is in reference to His Second Coming to the earth/His "RETURN"). However, NO words "IN THE NIGHT" accompany this phrase when the Bible speaks OF HIM [HIMSELF]! (Rev16:15-16, etc.)

Where the "IN THE NIGHT" phrase is added in this phrase, THIS speaks of a very specific "TIME PERIOD" that PRECEDES His "RETURN"/2nd Coming to the earth.

These are very often conflated by those not careful with the text.

[additionally, the phrase "the last day" does not speak to "a singular 24-hr day"]

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 1, 2019

TooFastTurtle said:

I can agree with that.

If memory serves (and I'm gettin old, so bear with me

), up to the time Jesus spoke His Olivet Discourse (and INCLUDING it), He only ever spoke of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth). His disciples' Q of Him in Matt24:3 was BASED ON what He had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (when the angels will "REAP")...

I made a post some time back, showing 12 general passages that speak of His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom [i.e. not speaking of "our Rapture/Departure," per context]):

[quoting that post]

--ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come/etc" passages

--"the kingdom of the heavens" (the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom)

--"the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" passages (ditto the above; referred to in a few different passages)

--the "G347 - shall sit down [around a table / at a meal]" of Matt8:11 and its parallel

--the entire Olivet Discourse (except for the section of Lk21:12-24a about the events of 70ad), so Matt24-25/Mk13/Lk21

--the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" references of Lk18:8[chpt-17-end] "avenge IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]," [also Romans 16:20 (distinct LOCATION, same time-frame) and Rev1:1/22:6] (specific limited future time period leading UP TO the earthly MK, which will commence at His Second Coming to the earth)

--"the end [singular] of the age [singular]" in Matthew 13:24,30,39,40,49-50 (also Matt24:3 and His response); as well as "the age [singular] to come" which follows this, sequentially, but found in Matt12:32 (the MK) located in the text just before the Matt13 passage

--the two "RETURN" passages of Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." THEN the meal; and Luke 19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN," when He will deal out responsibilities regarding "have thou authority over 10 cities" and "likewise... be thou over 5 cities" (and the parallels to these; see also Rev2:26-27, Rev19:15b ["SHALL [future] shepherd them [the nations]..." (FUTURE to that point in time!)], Rev20:4, etc)

--ALL "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" passages (for those not entering the earthly MK time period, as ALL "saints/the righteous" WILL be present and accounted FOR, to enjoy)

--the "ye [the 12] shall sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel" (Lk22:30,16,18 and Matt19:28 [compare with Matt25:31-34 for TIMING: His 2nd Coming to the earth])

--about eight to TEN "BLESSED" passages in the gospels [correlating with Dan12:12's "BLESSED" (specific time slot ["Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the 1335 days"]--referring to "still-living" persons, at the time of His Second Coming to the earth) and Rev19:9's "BLESSED" both/all pertaining to their entrance into the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, commencing upon His RETURN to the earth at the time of His Second Coming to the earth]

--the Transfiguration (a picture of His Second Coming glory)

[end quoting that post]

THE "MILLENNIUM" VS THE PRESENT KINGDOM OF GOD

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