The Letter to the Romans...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Why are Christian so self centered, man centered? they are deceived of the Devil, that is why! Satan has been successful in his age old plan, to get preachers to teach a half truth, so followers accept the lie of the Devil for the word of God. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
Why are Christian so self centered, man centered? they are deceived of the Devil, that is why! Satan has been successful in his age old plan, to get preachers to teach a half truth, so followers accept the lie of the Devil for the word of God. Love to all, Hoffco
Click to expand...

So what part are you referring to?
 
CeileDe said:
All I have to say is WOW. Talk about an complete mistranslation of scripture.
Click to expand...

Yes, completely incomplete. Overly cerebral parsing of scripture almost always leads to error and heresy....because the Holy Spirit is not leading in that endeavour.
 
Hoffco said:
Repentance, faith and holiness can not come from a DEAD soul, we must be born of God. The requirements for salvation can not come from a DEAD Soul. !! Love Hoffco
Click to expand...

A little tweak in your viewpoint, if I may:

Salvation's requirement is faith in the Saviour, Jesus Christ, which is birthed in the heart by Holy Spirit, who quickens the spirit of man to life at that very point in time.
 
FancyNancy said:
A little tweak in your viewpoint, if I may:

Salvation's requirement is faith in the Saviour, Jesus Christ, which is birthed in the heart by Holy Spirit, who quickens the spirit of man to life at that very point in time.
Click to expand...

Technically ,you are correct, BUT, Biblically. only, half correct. The first faith in our heart is not a true saving faith ,it is only a temporal faith in Jesus, until we are born of Jesus to a full faith of repentance, trust and obedience, for a life of faith and obedience. ,caused by the New Birth of the Spirit.. otherwise there would be no truth too the statement that some have made "shipwreck to the faith", and others who "fall from grace"; a temporary faith can not save . Love Hoffco
 
Hoffco said:
Technically ,you are correct, BUT, Biblically. only, half correct. The first faith in our heart is not a true saving faith ,it is only a temporal faith in Jesus, until we are born of Jesus to a full faith of repentance, trust and obedience, for a life of faith and obedience. ,caused by the New Birth of the Spirit.. otherwise there would be no truth too the statement that some have made "shipwreck to the faith", and others who "fall from grace"; a temporary faith can not save . Love Hoffco
Click to expand...

Hebrews 4:1-2
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Both Word and Spirit work together. One without the other is vanity.

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
 
Last edited:
Hoffco said:
Technically ,you are correct, BUT, Biblically. only, half correct. The first faith in our heart is not a true saving faith ,it is only a temporal faith in Jesus, until we are born of Jesus to a full faith of repentance, trust and obedience, for a life of faith and obedience. ,caused by the New Birth of the Spirit.. otherwise there would be no truth too the statement that some have made "shipwreck to the faith", and others who "fall from grace"; a temporary faith can not save . Love Hoffco
Click to expand...

Actually, should the pastor ask anyone to raise their hand or come forward for salvation, that person has been saved before even getting out of their chair, by their faith. There's the new birth!

There is no such thing as a "temporal faith" in Jesus!
 
actually, in real life, many who raise their hand , go forward or not, do so to get attention or approval of people(or even of themselves) , not of God - no faith in God required.

years later, ask those same ones why they're not still christian , and that's what they say....
 
Jeff_56 said:
actually, in real life, many who raise their hand , go forward or not, do so to get attention or approval of people(or even of themselves) , not of God - no faith in God required.

years later, ask those same ones why they're not still christian , and that's what they say....
Click to expand...

You must be able to read minds. You are only assuming that many who raise their hands do so for attention. Most the time when someone raises their hands everyone else should be closing their eyes? At least this is what I notice. And I don't know many people who will go up to the front because they want attention. MOST people avoid going to the front of the church as much as possible.
 
Jeff_56 said:
actually, in real life, many who raise their hand , go forward or not, do so to get attention or approval of people(or even of themselves) , not of God - no faith in God required.

years later, ask those same ones why they're not still christian , and that's what they say....
Click to expand...

Show me some statistics. I find your anecdotal evidence lacking in the honesty dept.
 
Hoffco said:
to psalm1819, New Birth is before Faith, What could be so clear, from Jh.3:1-21 ? And from Rom,8;29-30 ? Love Hoffco
Click to expand...

Belief is what constitutes faith, can one have faiþ in something they do not believe?
 
Jeff_56 said:
actually, in real life, many who raise their hand , go forward or not, do so to get attention or approval of people(or even of themselves) , not of God - no faith in God required.

years later, ask those same ones why they're not still christian , and that's what they say....
Click to expand...

What a bleak outlook. Not everyone will "stick" according to the parable of the Sower. It is up to us, the local church, to love and disciple people who have professed their faith for the first time. Are you helping in that department?

As for me, I give God the glory for every person who makes a profession of faith, and we as a church body work together to disciple them in the things of God. Judging whether they are sincere or not is not for me to do.
 
Last edited:
Jeff_56 said:
....
years later, ask those same ones why they're not still christian , and that's what they say....
Click to expand...
look it up. you just have to be able to read, not read minds....
there's been many many 'studies' or follow-ups... see what "they say"(the former hand raisers) themselves, ...
and
that's not even the best evidence...

look at some on this forum .... they raised their hand perhaps, and maybe even confessed, but never repented.... now they think they're a real christian because others have told them so, but they doesn't fit the clear and specific
description of a repentant or faithful believer in the WORD OF GOD (in THE BIBLE)....
and instead of following , seeking, or listening to Jesus they engage in all kinds of other devices
as it is written"God made everything simple (HE REALLY DID), but man sought out many devices(corrupted all) "......

while you're at it, look up the truth about altar calls and so forth... it is a long study, a 'very long' read compared to threads on this forum.... but well worth it, since eternal life is very very much "at stake" , for millions of souls.... and many that visit here....


CeileDe said:
You must be able to read minds. You are only assuming that many who raise their hands do so for attention. Most the time when someone raises their hands everyone else should be closing their eyes? At least this is what I notice. And I don't know many people who will go up to the front because they want attention. MOST people avoid going to the front of the church as much as possible.
Click to expand...
 
Jeff_56 said:
look it up. you just have to be able to read, not read minds....
there's been many many 'studies' or follow-ups... see what "they say"(the former hand raisers) themselves, ...
and
that's not even the best evidence...

look at some on this forum .... they raised their hand perhaps, and maybe even confessed, but never repented.... now they think they're a real christian because others have told them so, but they doesn't fit the clear and specific
description of a repentant or faithful believer in the WORD OF GOD (in THE BIBLE)....
and instead of following , seeking, or listening to Jesus they engage in all kinds of other devices
as it is written"God made everything simple (HE REALLY DID), but man sought out many devices(corrupted all) "......

while you're at it, look up the truth about altar calls and so forth... it is a long study, a 'very long' read compared to threads on this forum.... but well worth it, since eternal life is very very much "at stake" , for millions of souls.... and many that visit here....
Click to expand...

Well. I bow down to you Archie....a "real" Christian. Good on you.
 
FancyNancy said:
What a bleak outlook. Not everyone will "stick" according to the parable of the Sower. It is up to us, the local church, to love and disciple people who have professed their faith for the first time. Are you helping in that department?

As for me, I give God the glory for every person who makes a profession of faith, and we as a church body work together to disciple them in the things of God. Judging whether they are sincere or not is not for me to do.
Click to expand...

have you even read the bible yet ? did noah have a 'bleak' outlook ? did jesus ? did the apostles ?

in fact, does YAHWEH (the CREATOR) have a "bleak" outlook ?

what does YAHWEH, JESUS, NOAH, and all the apostles and prophets say about these days we live in ?
do they have a "bleak" outlook ?

seek and listen to the Father in heaven, and pray that HE permits you to know....

not many on earth are saved. in fact, according to GOD'S WORD, few are.
and
HE describes in detail quite a bit that you apparently think is "bleak"......

yet also HE offers salvation through faith in JESUS by HIS GRACE... to as many as love HIM and are called according to HIS PURPOSE....

the fact in HIS WORD, it is written for all to see, is that few make it - few are saved..... and
multitudes REFUSE TO BE SAVED (is that "bleak"?).....

or else they might be saved......
 
Jeff_56 said:
have you even read the bible yet ? did noah have a 'bleak' outlook ? did jesus ? did the apostles ?

in fact, does YAHWEH (the CREATOR) have a "bleak" outlook ?

what does YAHWEH, JESUS, NOAH, and all the apostles and prophets say about these days we live in ?
do they have a "bleak" outlook ?

seek and listen to the Father in heaven, and pray that HE permits you to know....

not many on earth are saved. in fact, according to GOD'S WORD, few are.
and
HE describes in detail quite a bit that you apparently think is "bleak"......

yet also HE offers salvation through faith in JESUS by HIS GRACE... to as many as love HIM and are called according to HIS PURPOSE....

the fact in HIS WORD, it is written for all to see, is that few make it - few are saved..... and
multitudes REFUSE TO BE SAVED (is that "bleak"?).....

or else they might be saved......
Click to expand...

I know the word.

People are often saved before they repent. Repentance comes after faith. I know that there are far more unrighteous people on earth than righteous. It has always been that way. However, it is not for me to wring my hands over it. My job in the Lord is to present His message of love and forgiveness, and I let Holy Spirit do His work.

Speaking all doom and gloom and negatively about how so many who say they are saved yet are not is not your job. We who know Christ know that we are living in perilous times, spiritually, so let's roll up our sleeves and get to work, taking the gospel message to all who are seeking and will be saved at this last hour.
 
"by their fruit you shall know them." We must do the Work of God, with the assurance that God know who are His, and we know that those who are His will depart from evil and live a holy life. Jesus knew Judas' heart and still Jesus worked with Judas for 3plus yrs and never complained about Judas to the others. We can expect to work with some Judas'; But if they keep a good cover up of their evil hearts, we won't really know whose side they are on. It is not a great concern for me. But I will teach the whole truth and those would will back me, I will work with them. I fire anyone who opposes my teaching. and let the chips fall, where they will. At times it is a member of our family. so be it. I am the pastor and to keep unity, all have to keep peace with me. I don't allow division in our church. This site is not my church ,so you can breath easy. LOL Love to all, Hoffco , Ptr. doug
 
To FancyNancy, I like you method, you work with those you have and disciple them, then If they aren't saved ,we give them an opportunity to get saved, "perhaps God will give them repentance". This how I do it; assurance is based on Faith and Good
Works for Jesus. Heb.6:9-10 Love to all, Hoffco
 
Preach JESUS, Man's sin and sinfulness, and God's command to repent,trust Jesus and obey Jesus to gain eternal. And God will save His "elect" ones. This is Peters method, Pauls method, John's method. the BIBLE'S METHOD.! Love Hoffco
 
I want to hear more of you understanding on God's "EFFECTUAL CALL" to salvation. Please read: Wayne Grudem's Sys.Theo.Bk. pages1185-1187on Effectual call,Adoption, SAnctification.faith, repentence, and good works. Love to all, Hoffco
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back