The Hostility Between Men & Women

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Do people have negative, latent attitudes they're unaware of?

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SonsOfCaleb said:
Read Numbers 12. In it, Aaron and Miriam begin speaking against Moses because Moses married a Gentile woman. Now, by faith we know that God doesn't hate women or view them as second-class citizens to men. However, when God confronted Aaron and Miriam for speaking against Moses, He only punished Miriam (harshly) but did not punish Aaron at all. So, either God does hate women... or something else was going on that the Bible doesn't explain to us. By faith, we know God doesn't hate women, therefore, the only real answer is that something else was going on (and I know a lot of christians hate digging for hidden gems and want to simplify everything because they're lazy).

God cursed Miriam with leprosy. (He was ticked.) When Moses and Aaron begged God to heal her, God reconsidered and told Moses, "If her father had spit in her face, would she not have been in disgrace for seven days? Confine her outside the camp for seven days; after that she can be brought back." God was so angry at Miriam that at the time He didn't have a plan for her healing. Moses had to beg Him first. He responded that if Miriam's father had spit in her face, she would have to be rejected for seven days. So, I don't want to force you think (thinking (and finding answers and mysteries) is fun for me, but not for most others), but do you know what it would take for a loving father to spit in his daughter's face? Fathers favor daughters naturally. Miriam would have to have insulted and disrespected her dad to a really high level for him to spit in her face and have her isolated for seven whole days.

So, why did Miriam and Aaron say the same bad things about Moses and God was in fact angry at both of them but was angrier at Miriam?
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Alternate theory on that episode: Aaron was the high priest and could not have performed his priestly duties if he was made unclean by leprosy. That was why God didn't strike Aaron with leprosy as well, because Aaron needed to be able to perform his duties as high priest (and apparently he was smart enough that he got the message and stopped all his complaining too when his sister was made a leper). And there's nothing to say that God didn't have a plan for her healing apart from Moses and Aaron's intercession; they prayed so quick we don't have any insight into whether there was a plan b or not, and we're also talking the forming of the nation; the nation was watching and God's and Moses's authority were on the line.

3 More intersting side notes on that passage (since I bothered to go read it to make sure I had my details right). 1) The Bible never says that she was healed; we assume she was and it's probably a fair assumption but we don't know if she was healed immediately and had to wait outside the camp for 7 days or if she was healed on the 7th day or sometime during that week. 2) The substance mentioned of their criticism was Moses' choice of wife 3) Aaron begged Moses for her healing; Moses begged God.

Sorry but don't think this has anything to do with divisions or distinctions between men and women. And the rest of your post that I didn't bother quoting was just a steaming pile of unbiblical equine defecation.
 
SonsOfCaleb said:
I'm saying that women have an innate and latent resentment for men, therefore, it's always present whether or not a woman has an issue with a man.
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That's impossible to prove since we're talking about people and every person's attitudes are so colored by their experiences that it's pretty difficult to separate those from what's innate beyond any experience. Many women have good reasons to feel apprehensive of and resentful toward men and many more have been taught that, but that doesn't make it innate. And more and more many men have reason to be distrustful of and resentful towards women. But none of that navel gazing actually helps us get along with each other better.

I will say that as a very fortunate woman who has been treated well by and given no cause to resent men; I'm pretty sure I don't have any innate resentment (though I'm happy to let the guys who've known me for a while around here weigh in on that) so that kind of disproves the theory right there.
 
I didn’t know I have an innate and latent resentment towards men.

I just apologized to my husband.

:cool:
 
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cinder said:
Alternate theory on that episode: Aaron was the high priest and could not have performed his priestly duties if he was made unclean by leprosy. That was why God didn't strike Aaron with leprosy as well, because Aaron needed to be able to perform his duties as high priest (and apparently he was smart enough that he got the message and stopped all his complaining too when his sister was made a leper). And there's nothing to say that God didn't have a plan for her healing apart from Moses and Aaron's intercession; they prayed so quick we don't have any insight into whether there was a plan b or not, and we're also talking the forming of the nation; the nation was watching and God's and Moses's authority were on the line.

3 More intersting side notes on that passage (since I bothered to go read it to make sure I had my details right). 1) The Bible never says that she was healed; we assume she was and it's probably a fair assumption but we don't know if she was healed immediately and had to wait outside the camp for 7 days or if she was healed on the 7th day or sometime during that week. 2) The substance mentioned of their criticism was Moses' choice of wife 3) Aaron begged Moses for her healing; Moses begged God.

Sorry but don't think this has anything to do with divisions or distinctions between men and women. And the rest of your post that I didn't bother quoting was just a steaming pile of unbiblical equine defecation.
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There's a theory for everything. I don't want to waste time thinking about theories. I have nothing in common with the ancient Greeks. I want to get to the point and stick to the facts. So, I can relate to Paul. (Acts 17.)

Aaron wasn't spared because he was high priest. That's reaching and exposes your need to be right (or your need to contend with men as being 'as/more intelligent'). God killed two of Aaron's sons, also priests, because they disobeyed God in a very specific way. If God was sparing Aaron for being high priest, then we'd have to question God's misogyny as only men could be priests. And let's talk about God's misogyny, for those who are brave and aren't just pretending to be: why were only men allowed in positions of authority?

God struck Miriam with leprosy because her heart was rebellious towards Moses and God. Aaron was rebellions in his words but not in his heart the way Miriam was. You're making too many assumptions and talking too many theories because you have no real contradiction of what I said. The real problem is that you want to contradict what I said. Why?

I used to work with about twenty married women. They were all flirtatious and resented me for not returning the favor. I told them I wouldn't 'do it' because I respected God first, myself second, them third, and their husbands fourth. (The fact was I respected their husbands more than I did them because I wouldn't want my wife flirting with and trying to sleep with other men, so I wasn't going to be a man who accepted the invitations of married women.) At this job, the women who didn't really care for me only noticed me because the other women did (you know how that goes). One of the women was crazy and did her best to try to compete with me every chance she got. Notice I said only one of the women was like that. However, her need to compete with (really, contend against) me came from 'the Wall'. She was no one to me; but I was much to her and she thought she had to 'beat me' somehow. Where does your need to compete and contradict come from? I've seen men do this too; it's usually men who think they have spiritual knowledge.

Finally, I don't blame you thinking I would sit around and talk to someone who is contentious-- male or female. You need to find a real man and get around him as uncomfortable as it would be for you. I feel no need to convince anyone or compete with anyone about anything. But you certainly do. Goodbye.
 
melita916 said:
I didn’t know I have an innate and latent resentment towards men.

I just apologized to my husband.

:cool:
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The Wall is apparent from before the start of any relationship and manifests itself within the relationship very often. The Bible doesn't have to overtly talk about something for that thing to be relevant or real. As I like to say, "Not everything is written in the Bible, but everything is contained in it."

There is a reason that 52% of marriages in the secular world end in divorce and the same number of marriages among christians end in divorce. And these are the divorces; these don't include separations nor do they include the marriages in which couples still live together but are emotionally divorced or/and are cheating on each other. No one enters a marriage thinking it's not going tow work out. So, do you really think it's just the carnal nature (me, myself, and ), money issues, adultery, and 'irreconcilable differences' causing marriages to fail so often?

Most people walk around unprepared with the subconscious thinking that "Ignorance is bliss" and "What you don't know can't hurt you." Really. There are many bad things that can be prevented when people approach any area of life with wisdom (sometimes just common sense). I remember a Dateline (I think it was) exclusive many years ago in which some married woman cheated on her husband and I think some type of crime was later connected to that. Another married woman in the same neighborhood told the interviewer how she'd reacted to the affair by thinking, "I would never do that. I would never cheat on my husband." She then shared how a few months later, she found herself in an affair with another man, cheating on her husband.

It's easy to wave off caution and mock counsel, but the facts don't care whether or not we believe them. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, of course it makes a sound. It doesn't need anyone to be around to fulfill the laws of physics. The Wall shouldn't be taken lightly if one wants to get into a heterosexual relationship, especially christians. It is always operating in the background, like the internal gears of a watch or clock. It always manifests in different ways, but sometimes it manifests in a way that causes obvious harm.

Sanctification is for a reason. satan is allowed to 'come to collect' when people have iniquities in them. Moses is the perfect example of this: at 40 years old, his pride and anger caused him to kill an Egyptian. His intentions were good, but there were consequences. Eighty years later, at the age of 120, after Moses had been so close to God and God had called him the meekest man on earth, satan 'came to collect' and Moses's pride and anger came back to the fore. He told Israel, "Must I bring water from the rock for you" (this was his pride, because God was the one who brought water from the rock both times), and instead of speaking to the rock to bring forth water like God told him to, he struck the rock (this was his anger). For this reason, God banned him from entering the promised land. Moses had the closest relationship to God that anyone on earth at the time had... but he never targeted and addressed that pride and anger that had first manifested when he was 40 years old. We would like to think that just being christian, spending time with God, and doing religious works are enough to somehow 'perfect us'; but the Bible says that there are areas of our lives that need to be specifically and purposely addressed (sanctification) so that satan cannot take advantage of us.

Most people don't know when their partner is cheating on them because they don't understand the carnal nature. The Wall simply complicates things in heterosexual relationships. It's always there, 'waiting to be let out', and whatever iniquity is in a person (christian or non), satan is always looking to use it to harm them (and maybe others). The Bible tells us to sanctify ourselves. Since God is good, it's no surprise that sanctification is not only for God's sake; it's mostly for ours.
 
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SonsOfCaleb said:
You think most women want a man who embodies strength under control. I know all women naturally want that (naturally; no wounds and other mitigating factors added) because it is God's design. Find God's design and you have basically the whole thing. All women are designed to be attracted to the same thing; the same with all men. That's the simple part of things; then there's a complex part because everything (down to rocks and water and molecules) God created is both simple and complex... of course, because God is both simple and complex.

Slow down. You run ahead like most people. If you don't understand or even agree with someone says, it's better to ask what they mean than to just start disagreeing. That doesn't make for any peace or unity. I didn't say if a woman has a problem with a woman then it's carnal nature but that if a woman has a problem with a man then it's the Wall of Division. I'm saying that women have an innate and latent resentment for men, therefore, it's always present whether or not a woman has an issue with a man. The issue doesn't always spring from the Wall, but the Wall is there unlike when a woman has an issue with a woman. There is no special wall between women; there's a special Wall between men and women. Whether or not men and women get along, that Wall is still there between them. The NT alludes to this, but like most things in the Bible, it's not there on the surface. There is a Wall; the Wall causes a latent hostility between men and women, not between men and men or women and women. Simple. You don't even have to go to the Bible first; go and watch people-- especially couples (starting with unmarried ones). Look beneath the surface. Feminism has been here since the Fall; it's just been growing more and more as we approach 'the end of all things'. I mean, the Bible doesn't tell us, but imagine how Adam and Eve felt towards each other when they were kicked out of the Garden. There was no one to blame but themselves, and they were blaming themselves before the Fall even kicked off. Can you see it now? It's not difficult to put things together when you begin looking. But if you aren't looking... then how will you see?
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Uh... You know cinder is a woman, right? But you're trying to explain to her what women want? Really?
 
SonsOfCaleb said:
Sanctification is for a reason. satan is allowed to 'come to collect' when people have iniquities in them. Moses is the perfect example of this: at 40 years old, his pride and anger caused him to kill an Egyptian. His intentions were good, but there were consequences. Eighty years later, at the age of 120, after Moses had been so close to God and God had called him the meekest man on earth, satan 'came to collect' and Moses's pride and anger came back to the fore. He told Israel, "Must I bring water from the rock for you" (this was his pride, because God was the one who brought water from the rock both times), and instead of speaking to the rock to bring forth water like God told him to, he struck the rock (this was his anger). For this reason, God banned him from entering the promised land. Moses had the closest relationship to God that anyone on earth at the time had... but he never targeted and addressed that pride and anger that had first manifested when he was 40 years old. We would like to think that just being christian, spending time with God, and doing religious works are enough to somehow 'perfect us'; but the Bible says that there are areas of our lives that need to be specifically and purposely addressed (sanctification) so that satan cannot take advantage of us.
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Interesting also that uncircumcision in the bible is used as a description for pride and being stiff-necked. Moses wasn't able to rectify this himself and would have been killed, but God had pre-ordained someone to do it for him - his wife. Acting out the role of life-saver that God had ordained in the beginning for women - to be life-savers of men (their husbands), rather than life-takers/controllers?
 
Dino246 said:
Yes... "Lighthearted" here on CC is now Mrs. Dino. :cool:
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Somehow I missed all the clues :unsure::giggle: Wishing you both all the best!
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Dino246 said:
Yes... "Lighthearted" here on CC is now Mrs. Dino. :cool:
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Follow-up question:

Is there a thread somewhere detailing the events of this joyous occasion?

The venue, the attendees, the fare, the bride wore... ? Any pics? :unsure::D
 
When I was a young adult, I was resentful/bitter towards men because I felt invisible. Praise the Lord for His healing touch!

P.S. I have no problem apologizing to my husband when I have done something wrong. He has no problem apologizing to me when he has done something wrong. All glory to God for changing our hearts!
 
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SonsOfCaleb said:
There's a theory for everything. I don't want to waste time thinking about theories. I have nothing in common with the ancient Greeks. I want to get to the point and stick to the facts. So, I can relate to Paul. (Acts 17.)
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I can't be the only one who snorted and thought there's the pot calling the kettle black at this. If there's anything you've demonstrated in your time on this forum it's that you love to expound upon ridiculous, misogynistic theories. That and you wouldn't know a fact from a theory that confirms your prejudices if one walked up and slapped you in the face.


Aaron wasn't spared because he was high priest. That's reaching and exposes your need to be right (or your need to contend with men as being 'as/more intelligent'). God killed two of Aaron's sons, also priests, because they disobeyed God in a very specific way. If God was sparing Aaron for being high priest, then we'd have to question God's misogyny as only men could be priests. And let's talk about God's misogyny, for those who are brave and aren't just pretending to be: why were only men allowed in positions of authority?
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Just for the record, by objective measure I am more intelligent than most men, as well as most women. God gave me gifts and I've tried to steward them to the best of my ability. But since I know that and am comfortable with it, you won't find me too concerned about proving it. God sparing Aaron for being high priest would have been a religious not a misogynistic distinction. And as to only men being allowed in positions of authority we've got Deborah, Esther, Priscilla being prominent enough to be mentioned first in scripture when the couple is mentioned, as well as some ungodly examples. We should probably also consider that one of God's purposes in creating the nation of Israel was to reveal himself to the surrounding nations. Nations that probably would have found them less relatable and possibly less respectable if they were a matriarchal society.

God struck Miriam with leprosy because her heart was rebellious towards Moses and God. Aaron was rebellions in his words but not in his heart the way Miriam was. You're making too many assumptions and talking too many theories because you have no real contradiction of what I said. The real problem is that you want to contradict what I said. Why?
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Because I'm convinced that this theorizing is incorrect (because you're making too many assumptions and applying too many extrabiblical theories and speculations) and more than that it leads to the kind of thinking that demeans women to second class possessions that should have no rights of their own (which if you won't avow outright you certainly seem well on your way to seeing women as less than men which is completely unbiblical).

I used to work with about twenty married women. They were all flirtatious and resented me for not returning the favor. I told them I wouldn't 'do it' because I respected God first, myself second, them third, and their husbands fourth. (The fact was I respected their husbands more than I did them because I wouldn't want my wife flirting with and trying to sleep with other men, so I wasn't going to be a man who accepted the invitations of married women.) At this job, the women who didn't really care for me only noticed me because the other women did (you know how that goes). One of the women was crazy and did her best to try to compete with me every chance she got. Notice I said only one of the women was like that. However, her need to compete with (really, contend against) me came from 'the Wall'. She was no one to me; but I was much to her and she thought she had to 'beat me' somehow. Where does your need to compete and contradict come from? I've seen men do this too; it's usually men who think they have spiritual knowledge.
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Ah so you've been looking in the mirror again, man who thinks he has spiritual knowledge. I don't need to compete and contradict (at least not outside of board games and other competitive endeavors and then yes I've been known to talk about how someone messed up my strategy for a big win after I've won). But I have a very serious passion for the word of God and to see it used rightly and it's got nothing to do with your chromosomes or genitals. It has everything to do with you twisting scriptures to fit your preconceived prejudices in ways that are not evident from the text, and arrogantly proclaiming that your conclusions are the ones required by scripture. I do the exact same to women when I think they're wrong too.

Finally, I don't blame you thinking I would sit around and talk to someone who is contentious-- male or female. You need to find a real man and get around him as uncomfortable as it would be for you. I feel no need to convince anyone or compete with anyone about anything. But you certainly do. Goodbye.
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Everytime a man like you says something patronizing like that, I thank God that I had good parents who encouraged me to be the intelligent competent woman he made me to be so that I don't feel any need for a man such as you. I love meeting good, intelligent, godly men and have the utmost respect for them. You just haven't measured up as one of them. Though your self delusion appears to run quite deep.
 
Funny. This same idea is taught all over the place, including schools. And it outrages many people, especially Christians, except it's about race, not gender. It's Critical Race Theory. Funny that when it's Critical Gender Theory it's suddenly an acceptable idea.

So much generalizing and people speaking for groups they aren't even a part of.
 
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Magenta said:
Before the fact, and it still mentions nothing of venue, attendees, fare, or what the bride wore.
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Nope, it doesn't. You need to get them to get on the stick and post some stuff.
 
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