L
Liverpool
Guest
How do we worship the trinity? Could someone clarify. I understand there’s the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit. But do we worship each of them individually? How are they all one? I’m a little confused
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God.........................the Father of us
Jesus.....................God as us
Holy Spirit.........God in us
Jesus.....................God as us
Holy Spirit.........God in us
when you honor Jesus as lord you are honoring God in full
The Father is God the Father.. He has the attributes of being all knowing, all powerful, omniscient etc..
The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit.. He has the same attributes.. fully God.
Jesus the Messiah is God the Son... He has the same attriubtes.. fully God.
How are they one?
In Genesis, God said 'Let US create man in OUR image'
The Jewish national God of Israel.. speaks to Moses at the burning bush.. calling Himself 'I AM'
Jesus, in the New Testament, when pushed by the Pharisees to say who He is.. whether He was the Messiah.. said 'before Abraham was, I AM'
He identified Himself.. firstly that He has been around before Abraham existed.
Secondly.. that God who spoke at the burning bush is one with Jesus.
Through the bible this goes on and on. God is identified with the terms 'Alpha and Omega, first and last' .. in Revelation Jesus is identified with these terms.
In Revelation.. it is Jesus speaking to the churches.. but it is also the Holy Spirit speaking to the churches.
So.. this goes beyond human reasoning, because any analogies from nature we try to bring up to explain it don't quite fully do it justice. The human body.. has a body, mind and soul. That is three in one. One being with 3 substances/essences.
This doesn't quite capture the trinity.. because Jesus isn't just a 'substance or essence' neither is the Father or Holy Spirit. They are full personas in themselves.
Light.. when you put it thru a prism is many shades of 3 base colours.. that's 3 in one. This doesn't quite capture it.. because the shades can be millions of colours.. but at least it's 3 base colours.
An egg has a yolk, shell and flesh.. 3 in one. This doesn't quite capture it because yoke shell and flesh are quite different and don't have the whole egg 'essence' in each part.
The key thing is : The Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is God.
That isn't three seperate beings.. but one being in three personas. God doesn't go in out of each like a sock puppet either.
They are co-existing, co-eternal and co-equal.
The one being, God. In three personas.
L
Liverpool
Guest
Collosians 1:19, 3;17, Ephesians 1;22,23, John 14:6, 1st Corinthians 8:6 & 10:31, Hebrews 1:2, 7:25 & 12:24 & 1st timothy 2:5 all explain that all fullness of the Godhead belongs to Jesus, that He is the 1 & only mediator (not Mary as catholics believe), whatever we do in word or deed & that Jesus is the only way to Heaven. knowing this, we know to pray by asking in the name of Jesus, he forgives, answers prayers & heals. the Holy Spirit also has a role in healing. God is the only God who is omniscient, omnipresent & omnipotent.
I've always heard that we worship the Father through the Son by the Spirit.
Also, since they are One, worshipping any worships all.
The bible tells us to worship one Elohim. My research and guidance from Yahweh has shown me the Holy Spirit is the power of Yahweh, not part of a trinity.
The Holy Spirit was used through Yashua also to perform miracles.
1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you and peace from Yahweh our Father and from rhe Master Yashua Messiah; No mention of the Holy Spirit
A few more:
2 Corinthians 1:3;
Galatians1:1& 1:3;
Ephesians 1:2;
Phillips 1:2;
The Trinity belief has pagan origins and was not adopted into the faith until around 400 yrs after Yahshua rose. This was done by a committee of church leaders, not the apostles.
We have one Elohim, worship the Father through the Son.
The bible also tells us there is only 1 unforgivable sin; blasphemy against the Holy Spirit(Matthew 12:31-32; Luke 12:10 & Mark 3:29)
This is the power of Yahweh, how He inspires us, blesses us, performs miracles. That is what Pentecost is. The apostles were given the Spirit of Yahweh so all the people could understand stand them
That is what the Spirit has shown/taught me.
The Holy Spirit was used through Yashua also to perform miracles.
1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you and peace from Yahweh our Father and from rhe Master Yashua Messiah; No mention of the Holy Spirit
A few more:
2 Corinthians 1:3;
Galatians1:1& 1:3;
Ephesians 1:2;
Phillips 1:2;
The Trinity belief has pagan origins and was not adopted into the faith until around 400 yrs after Yahshua rose. This was done by a committee of church leaders, not the apostles.
We have one Elohim, worship the Father through the Son.
The bible also tells us there is only 1 unforgivable sin; blasphemy against the Holy Spirit(Matthew 12:31-32; Luke 12:10 & Mark 3:29)
This is the power of Yahweh, how He inspires us, blesses us, performs miracles. That is what Pentecost is. The apostles were given the Spirit of Yahweh so all the people could understand stand them
That is what the Spirit has shown/taught me.
They are all God, but not three separate gods. This Trinity is unlike any other gods known to humans and one reason is the trinity is not man made like all other gods.
Worship one and you worship all as they are one in a non-numerical sense.
We can begin by kneeling . . .
Acts 7:60
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep. ~KJV
"Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name."
Jesus was the Father. Not some mythical 2nd person of some mythical trinity.
Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
.
For the moment, Jesus is in Heaven as a high priest-- a man mediating
between God and his fellow men --so we probably shouldn't be worshipping
him per Phil 2:9-11 just yet.
God's Spirit has never (to my knowledge) been an object of veneration. His
function in the Godhead isn't really that of a supreme being, rather, as a sort
of facilitator capable of quite a range of duties and responsibilities. For
example in Gen 1:2 the Spirit is shown managing the immense soup of
incoherent material that the voice of God would eventually utilize to
construct the Earth.
_
For the moment, Jesus is in Heaven as a high priest-- a man mediating
between God and his fellow men --so we probably shouldn't be worshipping
him per Phil 2:9-11 just yet.
God's Spirit has never (to my knowledge) been an object of veneration. His
function in the Godhead isn't really that of a supreme being, rather, as a sort
of facilitator capable of quite a range of duties and responsibilities. For
example in Gen 1:2 the Spirit is shown managing the immense soup of
incoherent material that the voice of God would eventually utilize to
construct the Earth.
_
Some people believe in a trinity but there are some things to consider.
The Bible says but to us there is but one God, the Father, and one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Why does the Bible only attribute the Father as being God.
In Isaiah it says the Son shall be called the everlasting Father but if they are separate how can the Son be called that.
Some people will say it means adopted Father but Jesus taught we only have one Father.
The Bible says the Son has no beginning but the term Son means to have a beginning or else the term has no meaning.
The Bible says there is only one God so if there are 3 persons in one God then they all cannot be fully God on their own.
The Bible says there is one God but then some people say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit which means there is 3 Gods.
Why was Jesus conceived by the Holy Spirit the 3rd person of the trinity and not by God the Son which it would mean Jesus deity is the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says let us create man in our image so Adam was created in the image of God.
In the New Testament it says Adam was created in the similitude of Christ.
So the image of God is the image of Christ.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh.
Which means God had the plan to come in the future in flesh and created Adam in the image that He would show in the future.
So the let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is a part of that image.
Is it speaking of a trinity or is it speaking of God the Father, and the Son the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus is at the right hand of God.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
Jesus said all power is given unto me in heaven and earth.
God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.
There is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne which is the throne of God and the Lamb who is God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.
David said the LORD said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.
For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.
God exalted the man Christ Jesus to be at His right hand, exercise the throne of power because He is the mediator between God and men, and when His enemies are conquered and the saints with Him then the man Christ Jesus shall stop exercising the throne of power that God may be all in all.
Jesus at the right hand of God is a temporary role and He is not sitting on a throne next to the Father for there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne.
The only person we will see in heaven if Jesus which He said if you have seen Him then you have seen the Father, and it is not Him that does the works but the Father that dwells in Him does the works.
Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, which those are not names but titles, and name is singular.
Jesus said He came in the Father's name.
Hebrews says the Son inherited the name from the Father.
The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.
The name is Jesus which Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all baptized in the name of Jesus, and the people who were baptized by John's baptism had to be baptized in Jesus' name.
With all this information it does not seem easy to believe in a trinity but one God the Father.
There is one God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus which the Son was made according to the flesh, and when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son made of a woman, made under the law.
It seems like there is not a trinity but titles for the 3 relationships God has with His children.
Father- God's parental relationship with the saints.
Son- God's visible relationship to the saints, and the way He provided salvation.
Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints, and God in spiritual activity which the Spirit moved in creation, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit guides the saints.
I am learning like everyone else and this is the way I see it for there is too much information for me to believe in a trinity.
You are dealing with "the Mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ" (Col 2:2). So it will be best to avoid human logic and humanistic thinking. In the case of the Lord Jesus Christ He is a UNIQUELY begotten Son. That is what "monogenes" or "only begotten Son" means. So you can call Him "THE ETERNAL SON". And the Bible confirms this in Micah 5:2.
PROPHECY OF THE BIRTH OF CHRIST IN BETHLEHEM OF JUDAH
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
What does "everlasting" mean? Eternal. So the Lord Jesus Christ has been active in the universe eternally. Which means that He is the ETERNAL SON OF GOD. And in fact He is God. God the Father calls Jesus "GOD" twice in Hebrews 1:8,9 which is actually a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7. And God has no beginning and no end.
Why do the cults stumble over the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and the deity of Christ? Because they expect to figure out God with their limited human minds. But ultimately God is beyond human comprehension. And that is partly why God became the Man Christ Jesus.
You forgot to say "a man -- who is fully God -- mediating between God and his fellow men".
If God the Father tells all the angels of God to worship Christ, it follows that He also tells all men to worship Him. The disciples worshipped Christ as He ascended to Heaven. And in Revelation we see that the Lamb is worshipped by all in Heaven. So here is another person using humanistic thinking about matters too high for him.
They are all the same in Spirit, in essence.
Lets say you have a million gallons of water and it has the exact same chemical makeup throughout, no matter how you divide it, one ounce, one gallon, 2000 gallons or 100,000 gallons its the exact same throughout every ounce in every container. So, how are they different? Each personhood is unique, just like every container is unique but the same. DEMONSTRATION BELOW:
Lets says we have a Three (3) Trillion gallon reservoir of water that is exactly the same throughout like above, every ounce is the same. God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the same throughout, in essence, they are Love, Hope, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Honest, Truthful, etc. etc. etc. BUT.......they have unique personhoods so to speak, we can show this via the three trillion gallon reservoir.
Take 100 gallons (Jesus) of that water and pour it over your head, you will be soaking wet but A-OK. Take another 100 (Holy Spirit) gallons of that water and pour it over your head, again, you will indeed be soaked, but you would not be harmed by the 100 gallons of water poured on your head. NOW...take the full Three (3) Trillion Gallons (God the Father) of water and pour it upon your heads and you would surely die !! God the Father has the "ABUNDANCE of the Glory" They are all one and the same in Spirit, they are love, joy peace etc. but only God the Father has the abundance of the Glory.
Thus the Holy Spirit can live in us, men could walk on earth with Jesus, but when the 70 opened up the Covenant of the Ark they al died. The High Priest could only enter the Holy of Holies when blood was sprinkled else God's presence would have destroyed the High Priest who was a sinner.
When Jesus was on the cross, the reason he cried "My God my God why have you forsaken me?" was because God had to leave Jesus' presence when all of our sins were upon him, God can not abide sin, that is why men who refuse the free gift of salvation actually condemn themselves to hell, which is really just a SEPERATION from God.
Amen