The GAP Theory

[Nehemiah6]

The darkness demands it in Genesis 1:2. God is light and in him is no darkness at all. Where did the darkness come from?

God allowed the darkness to exist until He spoke cosmic light into existence. That was OUTSIDE God who is Light. And he does allow darkness to exist even to this day. He allows the "rulers of the darkness of this world" to exit.

 

[Clayman]

Job 38:4-7
4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
KJV

God had already created the angels "sons of God" when He first laid the foundations of this earth. That's who were there in that first original Perfect creation, not flesh Adam.

I do enjoy hearing your thoughts, makes things interesting for sure.

I guess I see a very literal creation account that is a picture and metaphor of the whole creation. The physical is a mirror of the spiritual creation.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Fullstop. That's it that's creation in a nutshell, God created it in the beginning which is still happening now, and then we have the whole seven days, fullstop. which is also a picture of the whole seven thousand years which is still happening now.

Verse 2 begins the recapitulation and goes over the same thing except now more detail is thrown in. The earth was without form or void and darkness was on the face of the earth.

This is the state of our creation it lies in darkness, there are numerous verses that show how we are in spiritual darkness for example Isa 9:2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwell in the land of the shadow of death.

The great light is revealed on day four or four thousand years later, when the sun/son appears and brings the great light into the world.

Anyway I wont go over every day and every detail as funny enough it extrapolates out to the whole bible to do that.

I just wanted to point out that the whole creation happens in a very short time, we will be at the end of day seven very soon which will culminate with the new heavens and the new earth.

On that future day I will sing for joy with the other sons of God.

I know everyone else will agree with you that job is pointing back to day one or before day one of our creation, but I see the Genesis account talking of our creation as one quick event including all our history and future, which is foundational for the new heaven and earth or eternal state where all creation will finally reveal the sons of God.


Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Not only that but I believe every occurrence of Son of God in the bible can only be referring to man, so to me it cannot be angels.

We are heirs with Christ and we will one day be above the angels. The idea of heirs is presented again in Rom 8 and shows that those who have been born again by the spirit are heirs, so it is only man who are heirs and children and sons of God and are in the image of Christ. Which cannot be angels.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Just my two cents I actually don't expect anyone to agree with me, just something for you to chew on, spit out or what ever.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That's simply a term some came up with that cannot keep their fleshy carnal mind from interfering with these Truths in God's Word, albeit in parable form

Truths are FACTUAL truths. So what do Ezekiel 28 and 31 reveal? The king of Tyre is spoken of as Lucifer in chater 28. But "the Garden of God" -- Eden -- as described there is NOT the Garden of Eden on earth. That is quite clear -- "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." (verse 14)

The Garden of Eden on earth was definitely not the holy mountain of God. So that effectively kills all speculation about Lucifer taking control of Eden on earth before the creation of Adam. As for chapter 31, Pharaoh king of Egypt is also called "the Assyrian" but there is no allusion to Lucifer in that chapter at all. Pharaoh is simply compared to "all the trees of Eden" as a mighty tree. So once again that kills all speculation about Lucifer on earth.

So Davy give it up and walk away from this nonsense. The Ten Commandments destroy all speculation about any earth before this earth.

 

[tedincarolina]

Isa 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Hey @DavyP

I've always seen that as a this world order kind of thing. Didn't Jesus say that he saw or had seen Satan fall like lightening to the earth? Aren't the nations of the earth today roiled with wickedness and evil because of the sinful nature that Satan opened up to us? I'm not sure I'm following why you think these words of God through His prophet Isaih necessarily means that this is alluding to some other creation than this one that we're in right now.

God bless,
Ted

 

[John146]

God allowed the darkness to exist until He spoke cosmic light into existence. That was OUTSIDE God who is Light. And he does allow darkness to exist even to this day. He allows the "rulers of the darkness of this world" to exit.

We find God making a division in verse 4 from light which is good and darkness which is evil. From beginning to end light is associated with God and righteousness, and goodness, and darkness is associated with evil and Satan, and unrighteousness.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

 

[John146]

Truths are FACTUAL truths. So what do Ezekiel 28 and 31 reveal? The king of Tyre is spoken of as Lucifer in chater 28. But "the Garden of God" -- Eden -- as described there is NOT the Garden of Eden on earth. That is quite clear -- "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." (verse 14)

The Garden of Eden on earth was definitely not the holy mountain of God. So that effectively kills all speculation about Lucifer taking control of Eden on earth before the creation of Adam. As for chapter 31, Pharaoh king of Egypt is also called "the Assyrian" but there is no allusion to Lucifer in that chapter at all. Pharaoh is simply compared to "all the trees of Eden" as a mighty tree. So once again that kills all speculation about Lucifer on earth.

So Davy give it up and walk away from this nonsense. The Ten Commandments destroy all speculation about any earth before this earth.

God’s holy mountain is Jerusalem as defined by the Bible, the location of Eden.

Daniel 5:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Isaiah 66:
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.

 

[GaryA]

That Ezekiel 28 pointer to Lucifer was... before he fell, but by the time he is in the role of "that old serpent" with tempting Eve, he had already... fell.

No - those verses put Lucifer in the garden of Eden before he fell.

Read it very carefully.

 

[DavyP]

Hey @DavyP

I do. I don't think there's anything in my understanding that can't be supported by the words that God has caused to be written concerning this issue. Mine even includes all that God has said in the law that in six days He created all that is in both the heavens and the earth. Does yours? How do you see that your explanation fits with that part of God's explanation to us? How does your understanding fit within that six day claim that everything on the earth, in the earth, in the heavens was created in 6 days, which is a fairly clear and direct claim that God has made in His revelation to us.

And please, I 'm not looking for an argument. I just want to know how your understanding fits with all the things that God has told us about the creation event. If you can show me how it fits, I'll be happy to look your explanation over. I'd really like to see your explanation of how science has proven a single miracle that God's word tells us that He has done.

So, if you're up to it and have answers for those questions, I'd like to read them.

[/quote]

Well, if you're trying to use Scripture like Exodus 20:11, then you really have not disproved anything, because in 6 days God did... do this present 2nd world earth age creation. Even the fossil record proves this, because many specie of plants and animals were made extinct when He destroyed His first original creation in the beginning. That's why dinosaurs are no longer walking around among us anymore.

 

[DavyP]

I just presumed that Satan was enjoying himself with all the worldly wealth, he would go and indwell the kings or rulers of the earth, and make lots of money have influence and prestige masquerading as the king of Tyre, and he was very good at it, he's had a lot of years to watch men and practice.

That Ezekiel 28 Scripture though was not about the time of flesh kings, like the kings of Tyre. God is only using... the "king of Tyrus" title as a 'type'... for Satan himself in the time before... Satan rebelled. There were no flesh people back when Lucifer first rebelled in coveting God's Throne. So if the rest of your post is about that, then you have missed God's Message in that Ezekiel 28 Scripture.

 

[DavyP]

I do enjoy hearing your thoughts, makes things interesting for sure.

I guess I see a very literal creation account that is a picture and metaphor of the whole creation. The physical is a mirror of the spiritual creation.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Fullstop. That's it that's creation in a nutshell, God created it in the beginning which is still happening now, and then we have the whole seven days, fullstop. which is also a picture of the whole seven thousand years which is still happening now.

Verse 2 begins the recapitulation and goes over the same thing except now more detail is thrown in. The earth was without form or void and darkness was on the face of the earth.
....

That's how many traditionalists interpret the Genesis 1 chapter. They see Gen.1:1 as just a summary of God's creation, and the verses after that as the details.

That's still not good enough though, because what about all those Bible Scriptures I covered that are clear that God once shook this earth and destroyed its surface once before, and He even said this next destruction at the end of this world, He is going to shake not just this earth, but heaven also?

And then there's what Apostle Paul showed in Romans 8:18-25 that God had placed His creation in 'bondage of corruption' and in 'vanity', which is the actual meaning of the Hebrew for "without form, and void".

I don't see anyone so far commenting about those Bible Scriptures, but only just giving opinions like yal think that's all I'm doing. I am not... simply giving 'my' opinion on this matter of the Gap idea. It is written in God's Word, so He obviously wanted His servants to know about it. But because many brethren so easily just fall into men's traditions that sound good to their ears, they don't take the time to really check it out in Bible Scripture (like the many Scriptures I have shown which I don't see anyone commenting on.)

 

[DavyP]

Truths are FACTUAL truths. So what do Ezekiel 28 and 31 reveal? The king of Tyre is spoken of as Lucifer in chater 28. But "the Garden of God" -- Eden -- as described there is NOT the Garden of Eden on earth.
....

Uh, well, yeah Ezekiel 28 is... talking about God's Garden of Eden. So debate is over, as your own words has confirmed it when you said above that Ezekiel 28 is speaking about Lucifer.

 

[DavyP]

Hey @DavyP

I've always seen that as a this world order kind of thing. Didn't Jesus say that he saw or had seen Satan fall like lightening to the earth? Aren't the nations of the earth today roiled with wickedness and evil because of the sinful nature that Satan opened up to us? I'm not sure I'm following why you think these words of God through His prophet Isaih necessarily means that this is alluding to some other creation than this one that we're in right now.

God bless,
Ted

In other words, you have never considered the time that God showed in Ezekiel 28 with Lucifer as the anointed cherub that covereth (the Mercy Seat), and was originally in God's Eden 'perfect in his ways' before he rebelled? You mean you've never thought about that?

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

The FACTS from above:
1. NO flesh born "king of Tyrus" was ever in Eden, the Garden of God.
2. NO flesh born man is an anointed cherub that covereth; that description is about one of the two cherubim that cover God's Throne. The description in Exod.25 which God gave to the Israelites is what that position is about, a heavenly being position at God's Throne.
3. NO flesh born man has ever been 'perfect' in their ways from the day they were created. Flesh born man can only be 'counted' as perfect through the Blood of Jesus Christ.
4. NO flesh born man has ever been upon the holy mountain of God, nor walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Because of those type comparisons to flesh man, showing no flesh man was ever... involved in that, makes proper interpretation of God's Message there in Ezekiel 28 being about Lucifer so... easy!

 

[DavyP]

No - those verses put Lucifer in the garden of Eden before he fell.

Read it very carefully.

I have read it... carefully. You are simply bypassing Scripture that you don't want to believe.

By the time of Adam and Eve, Lucifer had ALREADY REBELLED against God in coveting God's Throne, which was Lucifer's original job to guard, as a covering cherub.

So you're going to try and tell me that Lucifer was perfect in his ways and guarding God's Throne when he was tempting Eve to sin?

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

So Lucifer when he tempted Adam and Eve, his status was the above descriptions?? Is that what you think, because it certainly is what you are saying.

 

[Clayman]

I have read it... carefully. You are simply bypassing Scripture that you don't want to believe.

By the time of Adam and Eve, Lucifer had ALREADY REBELLED against God in coveting God's Throne, which was Lucifer's original job to guard, as a covering cherub.

So you're going to try and tell me that Lucifer was perfect in his ways and guarding God's Throne when he was tempting Eve to sin?

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

So Lucifer when he tempted Adam and Eve, his status was the above descriptions?? Is that what you think, because it certainly is what you are saying.

So Lucifer when he tempted Adam and Eve, his status was the above descriptions?? Is that what you think, because it certainly is what you are saying.

Well yes that is also what I'm saying and also think.

I think that Lucifer had not rebelled yet and that in the garden of Eden when lucifer was just created, he was perfect in his ways, had wisdom and beauty.

This ties in with scripture verse Gen 1:31 Then God saw everything that He made, and indeed it was very good (including Lucifer who was or is a part of our creation)

 

[Clayman]

In other words, you have never considered the time that God showed in Ezekiel 28 with Lucifer as the anointed cherub that covereth (the Mercy Seat), and was originally in God's Eden 'perfect in his ways' before he rebelled? You mean you've never thought about that?

Ezek 28:13-15
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
KJV

The FACTS from above:
1. NO flesh born "king of Tyrus" was ever in Eden, the Garden of God.
2. NO flesh born man is an anointed cherub that covereth; that description is about one of the two cherubim that cover God's Throne. The description in Exod.25 which God gave to the Israelites is what that position is about, a heavenly being position at God's Throne.
3. NO flesh born man has ever been 'perfect' in their ways from the day they were created. Flesh born man can only be 'counted' as perfect through the Blood of Jesus Christ.
4. NO flesh born man has ever been upon the holy mountain of God, nor walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Because of those type comparisons to flesh man, showing no flesh man was ever... involved in that, makes proper interpretation of God's Message there in Ezekiel 28 being about Lucifer so... easy!

I'm not sure anyone is saying that Ezekiel is not addressing Lucifer when he is addressing the king of Tyrus, but I presume people believe that Lucifer a spirit being could enter into men and that Ezekiel was addressing both the man, that is to say the human/flesh king and also the spirit being Lucifer.

Also notice that when God sent His prophet to rebuke Lucifer, one of the admonition's, was by the abundance of your trading, you became filled with violence! verse 16.

Tyrus was the commercial capital of the world and known to be the wealthiest city and unconquerable makes sense to me that Lucifer was trading then and there not before Eden or in Eden.

How do you not agree that Lucifer was indwelling the human king and trading here, if this was before Eden or in Eden what was he trading?

Also notice the judgments are future or at the least in this creation.

You defiled your sanctuaries by the iniquity of your trading, also most likely a possible reference to the priestly role with Sodom and Abraham.

"I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings" verse 17

Surely you don't believe there were no kings before the garden of Eden of even in the garden of Eden?

 

[tedincarolina]

Well, if you're trying to use Scripture like Exodus 20:11, then you really have not disproved anything, because in 6 days God did... do this present 2nd world earth age creation. Even the fossil record proves this, because many specie of plants and animals were made extinct when He destroyed His first original creation in the beginning. That's why dinosaurs are no longer walking around among us anymore.[/QUOTE]
Hi @DavyP

Well, needless to say, I don't read anything about any second creation event or second earth found in the Scriptures. As far as proof, uhh, no, I don't see that the fossil record proves such a thing.

We'll see.

 

[tedincarolina]

In other words, you have never considered the time that God showed in Ezekiel 28 with Lucifer as the anointed cherub that covereth (the Mercy Seat), and was originally in God's Eden 'perfect in his ways' before he rebelled? You mean you've never thought about that?

Hey @DavyP

Oh no, I agree that there was a time that Satan was perfect in all his ways. But just as Adam and Eve were created perfect in all of their ways, and did apparently live for a time satisfied with that existence, there came a time that they rebelled against God's authority, just as Satan did.

Now, that time was before our realm was created. The angelic realm, which seems to have direct access to the throne of God, is a separate existence of living creatures that God created at some point before He created this realm of stars and planets in which we live. The Scriptures tell us that the angels rejoiced at God's creative efforts in bringing about this realm of existence in which man lives. So they were already existing when God spoke the earth to exist in the black inkiness of the space that we see in this realm referred to as our universe.

 

[Clayman]

That's how many traditionalists interpret the Genesis 1 chapter. They see Gen.1:1 as just a summary of God's creation, and the verses after that as the details.

That's still not good enough though, because what about all those Bible Scriptures I covered that are clear that God once shook this earth and destroyed its surface once before, and He even said this next destruction at the end of this world, He is going to shake not just this earth, but heaven also?

And then there's what Apostle Paul showed in Romans 8:18-25 that God had placed His creation in 'bondage of corruption' and in 'vanity', which is the actual meaning of the Hebrew for "without form, and void".

I agree about Romans 8, but do you also see how that lines up with my view that this creation is in bondage of corruption, and lines up with without form and void, that there was a need for light, and with the light it creates a division with the light and the dark. And even today there are those still in the dark, in fact we were all once in the dark, but now some of us have seen the light(salvation Hallelujah)

I don't see anyone so far commenting about those Bible Scriptures, but only just giving opinions like yal think that's all I'm doing. I am not... simply giving 'my' opinion on this matter of the Gap idea. It is written in God's Word, so He obviously wanted His servants to know about it. But because many brethren so easily just fall into men's traditions that sound good to their ears, they don't take the time to really check it out in Bible Scripture (like the many Scriptures I have shown which I don't see anyone commenting on.)

I think some of your scriptures have been commented upon, you don't really address the others viewpoints.

 

[Clayman]

That Ezekiel 28 Scripture though was not about the time of flesh kings, like the kings of Tyre. God is only using... the "king of Tyrus" title as a 'type'... for Satan himself in the time before... Satan rebelled. There were no flesh people back when Lucifer first rebelled in coveting God's Throne. So if the rest of your post is about that, then you have missed God's Message in that Ezekiel 28 Scripture.

I can't believe it...

There is a subliminal message in your post, that says that you did not even read all my post lol

 

[Clayman]

Hey @DavyP

Oh no, I agree that there was a time that Satan was perfect in all his ways. But just as Adam and Eve were created perfect in all of their ways, and did apparently live for a time satisfied with that existence, there came a time that they rebelled against God's authority, just as Satan did.

Now, that time was before our realm was created. The angelic realm, which seems to have direct access to the throne of God, is a separate existence of living creatures that God created at some point before He created this realm of stars and planets in which we live. The Scriptures tell us that the angels rejoiced at God's creative efforts in bringing about this realm of existence in which man lives. So they were already existing when God spoke the earth to exist in the black inkiness of the space that we see in this realm referred to as our universe.

Could you please be more specific about the rejoicing of God's creative efforts, I mean what exactly was created by the time the angels rejoiced at, in your view?