The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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The Great Trib will be a time when the evil one will be all-pervading.
Therefore it would be necessary for God to take the church out of the world in order to keep them from the evil one.
In John 17, Jesus was praying that the church would remain on the earth for a long season; at least for as long as they could retain power on the earth until the power of the evil one would become all-pervading; at which time Jesus would take His people up in order to keep them from the power of the evil one as, at that time, it will be the only way for Him to do so.
Therefore it would be necessary for God to take the church out of the world in order to keep them from the evil one.
In John 17, Jesus was praying that the church would remain on the earth for a long season; at least for as long as they could retain power on the earth until the power of the evil one would become all-pervading; at which time Jesus would take His people up in order to keep them from the power of the evil one as, at that time, it will be the only way for Him to do so.
Are the 144000 Jewish believers left behind in the tribulation part of the body of Christ or not?
How many bodies are there? When he returns Jesus separates people into two groups ie Sheep and Goats. The Sheep appear to be yet another body! The question Paul asks is a good one
'Is Christ Divided?' According to some the answer appears to be yes
How many bodies are there? When he returns Jesus separates people into two groups ie Sheep and Goats. The Sheep appear to be yet another body! The question Paul asks is a good one
'Is Christ Divided?' According to some the answer appears to be yes
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Which goes against what Christ taught and is against what Paul taught which was a post-trib rapture. It also denies all the scriptures which say members of the church will be persecuted and even killed such as the 5th seal, Revelation 11, Revelation 13 and Revelation 20 not to mentioned the same being described by Christ in the Olivet Discourse.
Great tribulation happen only on the end, but tribulation for the Christian always happen start Stephen being stoned to death.
In my country now there is ex Muslim evangelist arrested bite to ancouncious 3 time, after a month or 2 while still sick they put on trial till back uncounsious the lawyer request hospital, prosecutor say no money, the lawyer pay the hospital
In my country now there is ex Muslim evangelist arrested bite to ancouncious 3 time, after a month or 2 while still sick they put on trial till back uncounsious the lawyer request hospital, prosecutor say no money, the lawyer pay the hospital
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1 Cor 15:23 says that "those who belong to Him" will be resurrected "when He comes". So no one has a "choice" as you assume.
The Bible doesn't teach that. So you must have made that up.
Why would there be an escape plan, given that for over 2,000 years, the church has suffered severe persecution all over the world?
Here's the facts though.
Scripture teaches there is ONE resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15. If you disagree with this, address the verse and prove to me that it says something different.
The Bible describes the resurrection of martyred saints in Rev 20:5 as the FIRST one. That means there's only one more, which is for unbelievers to attend the GWT judgment.
2 Thess 2:1 clearly shows the rapture occurring at the Second Advent.
Which verse shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven? Do you have any?
The Bible doesn't teach that. So you must have made that up.
Why would there be an escape plan, given that for over 2,000 years, the church has suffered severe persecution all over the world?
Here's the facts though.
Scripture teaches there is ONE resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved. Acts 24:15. If you disagree with this, address the verse and prove to me that it says something different.
The Bible describes the resurrection of martyred saints in Rev 20:5 as the FIRST one. That means there's only one more, which is for unbelievers to attend the GWT judgment.
2 Thess 2:1 clearly shows the rapture occurring at the Second Advent.
Which verse shows Jesus taking resurrected and raptured believers to heaven? Do you have any?
Of course not. The 70th week of Daniel and the Great Tribulation are Israel specific. Remember that the "prince that shall come" needs to actually sit in the yet future rebuilt temple (which will be located in Israel) demanding worship as God. This specific event begins the Great Tribulation.
The Great Tribulation is time (3 1/2 years yet future) people (Israelites) and location (Israel) specific. Furthermore the GT has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church because the Church will have been raptured AT LEAST 3 1/2 years beforehand.
The Great Tribulation is time (3 1/2 years yet future) people (Israelites) and location (Israel) specific. Furthermore the GT has nothing whatsoever to do with the Church because the Church will have been raptured AT LEAST 3 1/2 years beforehand.
You are all mixed up my friend. When Paul speaks of the body of Christ he is speaking about the Church only. Nobody else...not the 144,000, not the tribulation saints not the Old Testament saints.
The Bride is unique and specifically identified as the Church. It is she that arrives WITH Jesus in Revelation 19, having been already raptured by Revelation 4:1....exactly as Jesus promised in John 14. Exactly as Paul describes in first and second Thessalonians and 1Corinthians 15.
The 144,000 Israelite commandos are ELECT wedding supper guests, and enter into the kingdom.
Tribulation saints who come to faith in Jesus during the tribulation and suffer martyrdom
are ELECT wedding supper guests, and enter into the kingdom.
Resurrected Old Testament saints are ELECT wedding supper guests, and enter into the kingdom.
Gentiles who survive the sheep and goat judgments are ELECT wedding supper guests and enter into the kingdom.
Gentile believers who survive the tribulation and are not martyred are ELECT wedding supper guests and enter into the kingdom.
Israelites who survive the tribulation and survive the Ezekiel 20:37 "pass under the rod" are ELECT wedding supper guests and enter into the kingdom.
I think that this wedding supper is very extensive and long-lasting.....maybe lasting as long as the millennium or beyond into eternity.....who really knows?
There is a little wiggle room here.....but it doesn't really matter. The point is that there is the Church and the Church age bracketed by Pentecost and the rapture.....she ALONE is the Bride.
Everyone else are wedding guests invited to the wedding supper.
Whenever you read any of Jesus's kingdom parables and you're dealing with guests to the wedding supper......you know that it's someone other than the Church.
The Bride is unique and specifically identified as the Church. It is she that arrives WITH Jesus in Revelation 19, having been already raptured by Revelation 4:1....exactly as Jesus promised in John 14. Exactly as Paul describes in first and second Thessalonians and 1Corinthians 15.
The 144,000 Israelite commandos are ELECT wedding supper guests, and enter into the kingdom.
Tribulation saints who come to faith in Jesus during the tribulation and suffer martyrdom
are ELECT wedding supper guests, and enter into the kingdom.
Resurrected Old Testament saints are ELECT wedding supper guests, and enter into the kingdom.
Gentiles who survive the sheep and goat judgments are ELECT wedding supper guests and enter into the kingdom.
Gentile believers who survive the tribulation and are not martyred are ELECT wedding supper guests and enter into the kingdom.
Israelites who survive the tribulation and survive the Ezekiel 20:37 "pass under the rod" are ELECT wedding supper guests and enter into the kingdom.
I think that this wedding supper is very extensive and long-lasting.....maybe lasting as long as the millennium or beyond into eternity.....who really knows?
There is a little wiggle room here.....but it doesn't really matter. The point is that there is the Church and the Church age bracketed by Pentecost and the rapture.....she ALONE is the Bride.
Everyone else are wedding guests invited to the wedding supper.
Whenever you read any of Jesus's kingdom parables and you're dealing with guests to the wedding supper......you know that it's someone other than the Church.
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If Jesus indeed was sacrificed as a substitute for man then that should be your STARTING PLACE.
I totally understand your need for clinical definitions that suit you.
But to be put to death for another and escape the actual wrath of that punishment ( no beating, no bruising, no crushing, no nails, no cross and no death) is one thing, but then to just assume there was no substitute of Gods wrath is taking your clinical definitions into heresy.
He became a curse.
He took upon him the sin of the world.
He experienced Gods rejection.
The JUDGEMENT OF THE WORLD , GODS WRATH, WAS UPON HIM.
IF you leave out substitute then you corrupt Jesus mission.
IOW, You now need to take "wrath" from judgement.
In your new limited "understanding" that you are trying to reframe Jesus mission, you have a need for wrath to become what you have made it.
Basically you are now taking the position that there can not be ANY WRATH in the gt.
Not an ounce or a sliver.
That is silly.
But nonetheless the core of your position.
I notice you left out God killing aaron on horeb.
Was there wrath?
See, i don't need it to be a certain way. You do.
We have 2 COMPLETELY different starting places and defending rabbit trails ( making you go against the word) is what i make my opponent do.
Glad i can just read it and accept it.
That bible you stay away from is not a mental book.
Your mental gymnastics on wrath proves you can not handle multifaceted truth.
We see you guys over and over in that dwarfed mindset of " show me where it says 'white bird' on the white bird" ..." See it can not be a white bird, you guys are liars"
Pure comedy.
I totally understand your need for clinical definitions that suit you.
But to be put to death for another and escape the actual wrath of that punishment ( no beating, no bruising, no crushing, no nails, no cross and no death) is one thing, but then to just assume there was no substitute of Gods wrath is taking your clinical definitions into heresy.
He became a curse.
He took upon him the sin of the world.
He experienced Gods rejection.
The JUDGEMENT OF THE WORLD , GODS WRATH, WAS UPON HIM.
IF you leave out substitute then you corrupt Jesus mission.
IOW, You now need to take "wrath" from judgement.
In your new limited "understanding" that you are trying to reframe Jesus mission, you have a need for wrath to become what you have made it.
Basically you are now taking the position that there can not be ANY WRATH in the gt.
Not an ounce or a sliver.
That is silly.
But nonetheless the core of your position.
I notice you left out God killing aaron on horeb.
Was there wrath?
See, i don't need it to be a certain way. You do.
We have 2 COMPLETELY different starting places and defending rabbit trails ( making you go against the word) is what i make my opponent do.
Glad i can just read it and accept it.
That bible you stay away from is not a mental book.
Your mental gymnastics on wrath proves you can not handle multifaceted truth.
We see you guys over and over in that dwarfed mindset of " show me where it says 'white bird' on the white bird" ..." See it can not be a white bird, you guys are liars"
Pure comedy.
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I just did a little 5 minute search on " wrath"
I did not find anywhere ( yet...still looking at it) where wrath is mentioned in the flood.
But it fits all test patterns.
You now can safely ASSUME that all Gods judgements in the ot were not wrath in any way, unless it SPECIFICALLY SAYS "WRATH" IN THE STORY.
Do the study and show me "wrath" in every judgement
Now remember, not "implied", it HAS TO use that word.
I did not find anywhere ( yet...still looking at it) where wrath is mentioned in the flood.
But it fits all test patterns.
You now can safely ASSUME that all Gods judgements in the ot were not wrath in any way, unless it SPECIFICALLY SAYS "WRATH" IN THE STORY.
Do the study and show me "wrath" in every judgement
Now remember, not "implied", it HAS TO use that word.
These questions have been answered perhaps a million times by now in forum threads. You have not believed even one answer. WHERE did Jesus go to build homes for us? On earth? Hardly! WHERE will Jesus be while Revelation chapters 8-16 are taking place? Of course, in heaven. Rev. 19 proves that.
True, the rapture will certainly happen the NEXT coming, which will be His second time to come - but He will come ONLY to the air: no touch down.
It says prōtos resurrection. You only assume "first" is the best translation. Since Jesus' resurrection was really the "first" as in sequence, then "first" is not the right translation for this Greek work. It was also translated as "Chief" and could be as "most honorable." This resurrection, being for all the righteous for all time, is certainly the most honorable of resurrections. See? No problem at all when you look at a Greek Lexicon. You only imagined that there was a resurrection for the righteous only ONE TIME. It was pure imagination based on a faulty translation.
Jesus rose. A long time ago. CHECK!
The Dead in Christ will rise later. CHECK!
The beheaded and the two witnesses and all the Old Testament saints will rise even later. CHECK!
True, the rapture will certainly happen the NEXT coming, which will be His second time to come - but He will come ONLY to the air: no touch down.
It says prōtos resurrection. You only assume "first" is the best translation. Since Jesus' resurrection was really the "first" as in sequence, then "first" is not the right translation for this Greek work. It was also translated as "Chief" and could be as "most honorable." This resurrection, being for all the righteous for all time, is certainly the most honorable of resurrections. See? No problem at all when you look at a Greek Lexicon. You only imagined that there was a resurrection for the righteous only ONE TIME. It was pure imagination based on a faulty translation.
Jesus rose. A long time ago. CHECK!
The Dead in Christ will rise later. CHECK!
The beheaded and the two witnesses and all the Old Testament saints will rise even later. CHECK!
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