The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[peldom10]

That doesn't come from the bible though. It's pure imagination. Go ahead, post scripture showing that.

Waiting on you to respond to # 304 and 305....?

You must for any further effort to be expended on your reasoning to be considered.
Otherwise you defeat yourself.

 

[cv5]

That doesn't answer the question.

God is in control of everything my friend. Satan and the fallen angels are on a leash.....

God can push the restraining throttles forward or backward as He wishes. He did to Israel and is going to do it during the time of tribulation. In fact He is doing so now.

 

[cv5]

The church will face the Great Tribulation.





It's what the bible says.





Sense has nothing to do with it. The bible says it shall happen.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.





God did not say that anywhere in the bible.

Tribulation saints. No doubt about it......

 

[lamad]

Evidently a duplicate.

 

[lamad]

Well lets use logic of scriptures...what happens to the people.... not in Christ .....at the time of the rapture?

Very simple question and answer: they are LEFT BEHIND to face Paul's "sudden destruction."
That is probably the earthquake that will be caused when God raises the dead in Christ.

 

[Absolutely]

The judeans hid from the Romans during the 70 A.D. Siege and Destruction of Jerusalem. Oddly enough, Christ told this before He began speaking about the Tribulation. Rome was so concentrated on the things it could control, it had no answer for those hiding. You act like the AC is All Knowing

How dare you equal him to God!

Just read what it says.

All take the mark.
Believers do not take it
They die.

Stick to what is written

 

[Absolutely]

Tribulation...we all have that in life...but, not the Great tribulation. A big difference.

But the other church has not even a little faith. That's the difference. One does not beget the other in your meaning.

What you are concluding is this;...God's plan is for the followers of Christ on the earth at
the time of the GT will be required to be subjected to the whims of the AC...not accept the mark of the beast and be martyred.
Is that what you are saying?

That makes no common sense at all.

For you to establish that as a true meaning you must respond to the language mentioned that God would save them from the hour that shall come upon all the earth, etc.

Wanna do that?

Like all else
We attain to our level of faith.
They can pray to escape or stay and deal with the bogey man.

Whatever they choose.

 

[Diakonos]

Lam 2:3
"....He hath drawn back his right hand from before the enemy..."

This is what you're essentially dealing with in 2Thes 2....

Lamentations 2 concerns the past = The Babylonian exile
2 Thessalonians 2 concerns the future = the day of the Lord

They are not comparable. Paul is not "essentially dealing with" the same time period, manner, concept, or doctrine. They are not similar at all.

“the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; but he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.” (vs 7)
The Holy Spirit - who currently restrains the evil of the world - will be removed Himself from this world, which triggers the Day of the Lord (2 Thes 2:6-12). And since we are eternally bound to Him...wherever He goes, we go with Him.

 

[ewq1938]

You missed something very simple; the Bride of Christ will be raptured pretrib. But people who believe as you do will be left behind (because of no faith in His coming pretrib) to be overcome by the Beast.

Why not rather CHANGE your faith and believe Luke 21:36? Believe in being found worthy to escape the beheading.

The antichrist will come and imitate Christ and use miracles to deceive Christians who aren't prepared in the Apostasy which pre=trib thinks is the rapture. Pretty easy to see the antichrist using a deceiving miracle to make people think they have been raptured et al. That's why pre-trib will always been a terrible thing to believe in.

 

[Runningman]

The antichrist will come and imitate Christ and use miracles to deceive Christians who aren't prepared in the Apostasy which pre=trib thinks is the rapture. Pretty easy to see the antichrist using a deceiving miracle to make people think they have been raptured et al. That's why pre-trib will always been a terrible thing to believe in.

we’ll said and that’s exactly what I believe will happen too.

 

[cv5]

Lamentations 2 concerns the past = The Babylonian exile
2 Thessalonians 2 concerns the future = the day of the Lord

They are not comparable. Paul is not "essentially dealing with" the same time period, manner, concept, or doctrine. They are not similar at all.

“the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; but he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.” (vs 7)
The Holy Spirit - who currently restrains the evil of the world - will be removed Himself from this world, which triggers the Day of the Lord (2 Thes 2:6-12). And since we are eternally bound to Him...wherever He goes, we go with Him.

Okay buddy. But I will have to disagree with you on this one.

 

[justbyfaith]

In order to make the great tribulation the wrath of God, you have to hold the position that God murders members of the bride of Christ.

Only if the church actually goes through the GT.

And, clearly, the GT is God's wrath on a Christ-rejecting world (Zephaniah 1:14-15, Luke 21:23).

 

[justbyfaith]

The antichrist will come and imitate Christ and use miracles to deceive Christians who aren't prepared in the Apostasy which pre=trib thinks is the rapture. Pretty easy to see the antichrist using a deceiving miracle to make people think they have been raptured et al. That's why pre-trib will always been a terrible thing to believe in.

A deceiving miracle that leads everyone to believe that they are already in heaven?

That is pretty far-fetched; especially with all of the plagues that will be hitting the earth in that time period.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The antichrist will come and imitate Christ and use miracles to deceive Christians who aren't prepared in the Apostasy which pre=trib thinks is the rapture.

1. Firstly, Christians WILL NOT be deceived by the Antichrist since God will send a strong delusion only upon the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked. See 2 Thessalonians.

2. Secondly., according to the Bible the Antichrist CANNOT take full control of the world until and unless the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians). And since the Church is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, when He is taken out of the way, so is the Church. And where would they go other than to Heaven at the Resurrection/Rapture? The Holy Spirt was sent to earth to begin the Church, and when the fulness of the Gentiles within the Church is complete He will return to Heaven.

3. Thirdly, the Tribulation coincides with the reign of the Antichrist. And the Tribulation is as much an expression of the wrath of God as the Great Tribulation. This entire period encompasses the seven trumpet judgments of Revelation. Since Christians CANNOT, and will not, face the wrath of God, they will be absent from the earth during this time.

4. Fourthly, the Apostasy is already here. One has to simply see what is going on in Christendom today (and will continue to grow until the Antichrist is revealed). A good example is the recent setting up of an interfaith complex in Abu Dhabi (United Arab Emirates), called the "Abrahamic Family House":

UAE reveals progress on interfaith complex to house synagogue, mosque, church
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uae-r...ith-complex-to-house-synagogue-mosque-church/

Since both Muslims and Jews reject the deity of Christ, this must be a preparation for the Antichrist.

 

[cv5]

The antichrist will come and imitate Christ and use miracles to deceive Christians who aren't prepared in the Apostasy which pre=trib thinks is the rapture. Pretty easy to see the antichrist using a deceiving miracle to make people think they have been raptured et al. That's why pre-trib will always been a terrible thing to believe in.

See......there you go again. Yet another completely wackadoo assertion. Paul clearly indicates that only the unsaved will be deceived per 2Thes2:10. Furthermore it is God Himself who sends these who are perishing strong delusion per 2Thes 2:11.

According to you, both God AND Satan are deceiving these saved but weak Christians, damning them. WOW. Or are they unsaved Christians???? ROFL.

It doesn't matter anyway, because we Christians are long gone in verse 3. Before the man of sin is revealed.......precisely as is CONFIRMED in the book of Revelation. And yes I believe that "the departure" is the correct term there.

 

[ewq1938]

1. Firstly, Christians WILL NOT be deceived by the Antichrist since God will send a strong delusion only upon the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked. See 2 Thessalonians.

Only a Christian can commit Apostasy.

2. Secondly., according to the Bible the Antichrist CANNOT take full control of the world until and unless the Holy Spirit is "taken out of the way" (2 Thessalonians).

Of course the antichrist can take control of the world whether the holy spirit is here or not. Personally I think it's ridiculous to ever think the HS can not be here especially when we know the Spirit is active during the Great Tribulation.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Naturally the saints have the HS during the Great Tribulation. True Christians like the 144k and two witnesses have that Spirit.

3. Thirdly, the Tribulation coincides with the reign of the Antichrist. And the Tribulation is as much an expression of the wrath of God as the Great Tribulation.

The Great Tribulation is the wrath of satan against the church. Afterwards comes the wrath of God against satan and the beasts and their kingdom and those with the mark.

4. Fourthly, the Apostasy is already here.

There has always been some type of apostasy but "the Apostasy" Paul referred to is a specific event related to the man of sin.

 

[ewq1938]

It doesn't matter anyway, because we Christians are long gone in verse 3. Before the man of sin is revealed.......

Which goes against what Paul said:

Pre-trib has the church rapturing away before the man of sin is revealed but Paul said the rapture would not happen until the man of sin was revealed.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the rapture)
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, (the day of the rapture) except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Pre-trib: church raptured BEFORE the man of sin is revealed.
the bible: church raptured AFTER the man of sin is revealed.

This proves rapture cannot happen before man of sin is revealed which proves the Great Tribulation will have started before the rapture occurs.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Just read what it says.

All take the mark.
Believers do not take it
They die.

Stick to what is written

I did read and I am sticking to what was said and what actually happened. Christ said to hide, they hid, and result escaped their 70 A.D. Tribulation. Pretty good Outline for us to follow for the coming Tribulation

 

[Marilyn]

Which goes against what Paul said:

Pre-trib has the church rapturing away before the man of sin is revealed but Paul said the rapture would not happen until the man of sin was revealed.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (the rapture)
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, (the day of the rapture) except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


Pre-trib: church raptured BEFORE the man of sin is revealed.
the bible: church raptured AFTER the man of sin is revealed.

This proves rapture cannot happen before man of sin is revealed which proves the Great Tribulation will have started before the rapture occurs.

That Day is actually the Day of the Lord, (1 Thess. 5: 2, & 2 Thess. 2: 2)

Remember that the word Day in Hebrew is a time period and a specific day. Both are referred to in scripture.

Thus the man of sin revealed is AFTER the tribulation has begun and BEFORE the specific day of the Lord when He comes to take vengeance upon the rebellious, (2 Thess. 1: 7)

 

[tanakh]

I wouldn't mind being raptured! Who wouldn't? Question is what exactly are you
supposed to do to qualify? There are many books supporting the idea and arguing
about when it is supposed to happen but none of them spell this out. It seems to me
that it consists of some kind of divine lottery. I suppose I will have to wait and see if
I have a winning card or not.