The fall
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Adam was not deceived
(1 Timothy 2:14)
unto Adam He said,
because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife
(Genesis 3:17)
Adam didn't listen to the Serpent, and his wife didn't trick him. i don't think she even tried to; i don't think either of them are idiots, but both wiser & more intelligent than me.
o look she has basic knowledge of 'good' before she eats 
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Genesis 3:6 doesn't say "who was with her" it says she ate, she gave to her husband "with her," and he did eat.
there are 3 events there -- her eating, her giving fruit to Adam, and Adam eating. there may be any space of time between these events, and in fact we know there are spaces of time and unrecorded events because God judged Adam because he listened to her -- but gave no record of her speaking to him.
does this necessarily mean that everyone descended from Noah was standing beside Noah when God said this? that includes me & you -- were we there? so 'with your seed after you' isn't saying we're all congregated together on Mt Ararat; it's saying we are all joined together in the covenant. it's 'with Noah' in the inclusion of the covenant, not 'with Noah' in space & time.
so i think that knowing Adam wasn't deceived, he can't have been standing beside her when she was, or when she ate. she eats, and death enters into her. she goes to Adam. she says something to him. he makes a decision and she gives him fruit. now he has fruit 'with her' - and he eats, and then he is in transgression 'with her' -- the 'with her' doesn't necessarily have reference to being in proximity to her while she is deceived by the Serpent and taking from the tree; it can be referencing 'joining her' in eating the forbidden fruit, and i think that all the other details we know about this indicate that he wasn't.
not arguing that Adam didn't sin; of course he did. but for Adam to be standing right beside his wife watching the serpent deceive her, watching her take and eat the fruit, and say or do nothing about it, Adam has to be either a enormous idiot or equally deceived, and he is neither. Woman was first in transgression, and Adam was not deceived. if Adam is guilty of failing to stop her, then Adam is first in transgression because in that case he would have failed before she ate: she thinks she can't even touch the fruit, so if we accuse Adam of allowing her to eat, then he's guilty from the moment she reaches out her hand, but she's not guilty until she eats. this contradicts scripture, because we know she was first in transgression -- and we know Adam wasn't fooled.
but God does not hold him accountable for Woman's sin -- tho Adam himself in his confession takes her sin on himself ((a figure of the last Adam who was to come)). God holds the Serpent responsible; that is who is cursed. Adam & Eve are both guilty of transgression and suffer the results of their transgression, but He does not curse them.
there are 3 events there -- her eating, her giving fruit to Adam, and Adam eating. there may be any space of time between these events, and in fact we know there are spaces of time and unrecorded events because God judged Adam because he listened to her -- but gave no record of her speaking to him.
And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you
(Genesis 9:9)
compare this -- God makes a covenant with Noah and his descendants 'with him'(Genesis 9:9)
does this necessarily mean that everyone descended from Noah was standing beside Noah when God said this? that includes me & you -- were we there? so 'with your seed after you' isn't saying we're all congregated together on Mt Ararat; it's saying we are all joined together in the covenant. it's 'with Noah' in the inclusion of the covenant, not 'with Noah' in space & time.
so i think that knowing Adam wasn't deceived, he can't have been standing beside her when she was, or when she ate. she eats, and death enters into her. she goes to Adam. she says something to him. he makes a decision and she gives him fruit. now he has fruit 'with her' - and he eats, and then he is in transgression 'with her' -- the 'with her' doesn't necessarily have reference to being in proximity to her while she is deceived by the Serpent and taking from the tree; it can be referencing 'joining her' in eating the forbidden fruit, and i think that all the other details we know about this indicate that he wasn't.
not arguing that Adam didn't sin; of course he did. but for Adam to be standing right beside his wife watching the serpent deceive her, watching her take and eat the fruit, and say or do nothing about it, Adam has to be either a enormous idiot or equally deceived, and he is neither. Woman was first in transgression, and Adam was not deceived. if Adam is guilty of failing to stop her, then Adam is first in transgression because in that case he would have failed before she ate: she thinks she can't even touch the fruit, so if we accuse Adam of allowing her to eat, then he's guilty from the moment she reaches out her hand, but she's not guilty until she eats. this contradicts scripture, because we know she was first in transgression -- and we know Adam wasn't fooled.
but God does not hold him accountable for Woman's sin -- tho Adam himself in his confession takes her sin on himself ((a figure of the last Adam who was to come)). God holds the Serpent responsible; that is who is cursed. Adam & Eve are both guilty of transgression and suffer the results of their transgression, but He does not curse them.
how do we know he didn't?
we know they had unrecorded conversations. we know she spoke to him before he took and ate, because God in His judgement says Adam harkened to her. and we know that they didn't eat from the other tree -- tho they certainly had time to: they used that time to make garments out of fig leaves and hide, instead. so why didn't they eat from the tree of life? don't you suppose there was some sort of conversation about that?
what stopped Woman from taking from the tree of life?
what stopped Adam from taking from the tree of life?
how did they decide on fig leaves & hiding? how long did it take to gather fig leaves, to sew them and put them on? how close were the fig trees? why did they choose fig leaves instead of say, elephant ear or palm?
there are clearly spaces of time, conversations and decisions in the sequence of events that aren't recorded for us.
we know they had unrecorded conversations. we know she spoke to him before he took and ate, because God in His judgement says Adam harkened to her. and we know that they didn't eat from the other tree -- tho they certainly had time to: they used that time to make garments out of fig leaves and hide, instead. so why didn't they eat from the tree of life? don't you suppose there was some sort of conversation about that?
what stopped Woman from taking from the tree of life?
what stopped Adam from taking from the tree of life?
how did they decide on fig leaves & hiding? how long did it take to gather fig leaves, to sew them and put them on? how close were the fig trees? why did they choose fig leaves instead of say, elephant ear or palm?
there are clearly spaces of time, conversations and decisions in the sequence of events that aren't recorded for us.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that Adam and Eve didn't have any awareness of the difference between good & evil prior to eating from the tree. Hear (or read) me out on this:
God is the ultimate standard of good. He is the bar against which ALL other things are measured. And everything/everyone falls short of God by default, because they are merely created.
Adam & Eve indeed disobeyed God, but they had no knowledge or awareness of the existence of evil as such (before they ate the fruit). The Scripture say that their "eyes were opened" once they ate.
What it comes down to is that Eve believed the serpent instead of God (although she didn't perceive that the serpent's words were deceptive). And Adam chose to eat the fruit that his wife gave him. They both were effectively choosing that day whom they would serve (cf. Joshua 24:15).
Eve also "added to" what God had said when she answered the serpent. God never said (at least according to Scripture) that they should not touch the fruit; only that they should not eat it.
$0.02
God is the ultimate standard of good. He is the bar against which ALL other things are measured. And everything/everyone falls short of God by default, because they are merely created.
Adam & Eve indeed disobeyed God, but they had no knowledge or awareness of the existence of evil as such (before they ate the fruit). The Scripture say that their "eyes were opened" once they ate.
What it comes down to is that Eve believed the serpent instead of God (although she didn't perceive that the serpent's words were deceptive). And Adam chose to eat the fruit that his wife gave him. They both were effectively choosing that day whom they would serve (cf. Joshua 24:15).
Eve also "added to" what God had said when she answered the serpent. God never said (at least according to Scripture) that they should not touch the fruit; only that they should not eat it.
$0.02
.
It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the so
called fallen nature is inherited from one's biological father. Oh? From
whence did the woman get it?
She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior to the
forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after his wife was
born; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the so-called fallen nature to
her by means of procreation.
In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the change that took place in the first couple's moral
perception; but now I seriously doubt it because the woman was the first to
eat it, and when she did, nothing happened. She remained shameless and
went about in the buff as usual; the woman's self awareness was
unchanged, and her feelings about the human body remained the same. It
wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to think that full frontal
nudity is indecent; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more
serious than the chemistry of that fruit.
Ruling out Adam, and ruling out the fruit; we're left with two alternatives:
either God did it to them or the Serpent did it. My money is on the Serpent,
a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)
He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the
human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke
13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.
The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. As soon as Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work with the fig leaves.
FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she
tasted the forbidden fruit?
A: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into
the world, it would come via a male's actions just as life and righteousness
would later be offered to the world via a male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)
FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?
A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)
NOTE: I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting
blame away from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to
believe biological fathers propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the
Serpent all along. How he has managed to decieve so many people for so
long a time I don't know, but what's really cool about it is that there are
people behind pulpits, and chairing whole Sunday school departments,
helping him do it as unsuspecting accomplices.
_
It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the so
called fallen nature is inherited from one's biological father. Oh? From
whence did the woman get it?
She was constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior to the
forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after his wife was
born; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the so-called fallen nature to
her by means of procreation.
In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had
something to do with the change that took place in the first couple's moral
perception; but now I seriously doubt it because the woman was the first to
eat it, and when she did, nothing happened. She remained shameless and
went about in the buff as usual; the woman's self awareness was
unchanged, and her feelings about the human body remained the same. It
wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit that she began to think that full frontal
nudity is indecent; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far more
serious than the chemistry of that fruit.
Ruling out Adam, and ruling out the fruit; we're left with two alternatives:
either God did it to them or the Serpent did it. My money is on the Serpent,
a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)
He has the power of death (Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the
human body and the human mind in ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke
13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.
The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment
that Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it
takes effect. As soon as Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both
immediately set to work with the fig leaves.
FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she
tasted the forbidden fruit?
A: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into
the world, it would come via a male's actions just as life and righteousness
would later be offered to the world via a male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)
FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of
the womb?
A: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb. (Ps 51:5 & 58:3)
NOTE: I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting
blame away from himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to
believe biological fathers propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the
Serpent all along. How he has managed to decieve so many people for so
long a time I don't know, but what's really cool about it is that there are
people behind pulpits, and chairing whole Sunday school departments,
helping him do it as unsuspecting accomplices.
_
Hebrews 3:13 speaks of "the deceitfulness of sin". Whenever I come across this phrase I ask myself, "how exactly does sin deceive?"
And as I read the discussion here the phrase popped in my mind and seems to tie directly to Eve's deception in the garden.
Was Eve duped by the serpent, as if ignorant of right and wrong or weak in intelligence? The serpent was indeed crafty, but no I don't think it was an intellectual contest that Eve lost. That's not the cause of deception..
The serpent tempted her to eat the forbidden fruit and she reasoned with him as to why she shouldn't......but then gave in.
So at the most basic level she let her flesh justify within herself that doing this "bad" thing was "good" for her to do. I think that's the deception.
James 1:14-15
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death
True the serpent planted the thought but Eve's body enticed her to commit the act. And if we consider our own lives, surely we can intellectualize why sinning is wrong in the mind, but it's our bodies that compel us to continue.
Now if we pull from truths we know, Adam was Eve's head (just like Christ is the head of the Body who is His bride), which makes Eve Adam's body (notwithstanding the fact that she actually came from Adam).
So Eve let her body lead her decision to succumb to the serpent and sin, and so likewise Adam let his "body" lead him to do the same.
But the head is supposed to lead the body, not the other way around.
And as I read the discussion here the phrase popped in my mind and seems to tie directly to Eve's deception in the garden.
Was Eve duped by the serpent, as if ignorant of right and wrong or weak in intelligence? The serpent was indeed crafty, but no I don't think it was an intellectual contest that Eve lost. That's not the cause of deception..
The serpent tempted her to eat the forbidden fruit and she reasoned with him as to why she shouldn't......but then gave in.
So at the most basic level she let her flesh justify within herself that doing this "bad" thing was "good" for her to do. I think that's the deception.
James 1:14-15
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death
True the serpent planted the thought but Eve's body enticed her to commit the act. And if we consider our own lives, surely we can intellectualize why sinning is wrong in the mind, but it's our bodies that compel us to continue.
Now if we pull from truths we know, Adam was Eve's head (just like Christ is the head of the Body who is His bride), which makes Eve Adam's body (notwithstanding the fact that she actually came from Adam).
So Eve let her body lead her decision to succumb to the serpent and sin, and so likewise Adam let his "body" lead him to do the same.
But the head is supposed to lead the body, not the other way around.
Anywhoo asked: WHAT CAUSED EVE TO EAT THE FRUIT OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL
First and foremost, before I give my opinion, I would like to say that
1. we are tempted by what we see, hear, smell, touch or taste which tend to ignite our heart desires; and desires, if unchecked with proper knowledge and understanding of God could lead to lust and lust once conceived leads to sin (James 1:15). Temptation is therefore centered on our ability to overcome the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life, on our ability to prove the ”nothingness” of the physical or material world and the allness of God, for God which is all in all is the only thing that matters.
2. the testimonies of the physical senses are sometimes deceitful, therefore we must always back ourselves up with our knowledge of the word of God. Jesus overcame his temptation by using the iconic word, it is written, for the word of God is the sword of the spirit (Ephesians 6:17) by which battles are won over the flesh.
Having said these, I submit as follows:
For her lack of knowledge, she failed to understand that true wisdom can only be obtained from God Himself who is the Creator rather than from the creature. This ignorance led to her unbelief and then to her disobedience. Hence, the root cause of her disobedience is ignorance. In Jeremiah 9: 23, God said, let him that glory, glory in this, that he understands and knows me. 1 John 5:20 tells us that Jesus came to give us an understanding of the true God that we should know Him and have eternal life and no longer perish for lack of knowledge. The knowledge of God and understanding of His ways is key to our faith in Him.
Eve saw something that does not exist as if it does. The condition of the forbidden fruit being able to make one wise was not part of the features of the fruit but was purely out of Eve’s lustful eyes and pride awakened by the lie of the devil who worked on her ignorance. Because of her ignorance of God and unbelief, which made her to jettison the word of God, the Spirit of God was not in her thought process, therefore, she missed the light that would have lit her eyes and guided her to the right path. We recall that it is written in John 1 : 4, that the word of God is life and this life is the light of men and Jesus said, the words I speak to you they are spirit and they are life. In the absence of this light, Eve could not comprehend rightly the situation she was in and therefore she embraced and leaned on the flesh which is always in conflict and parallel with the Spirit.
What the flesh does is to cloud our physical senses to see unreality in what is real and to see reality in what is unreal and base our decisions and actions on falsehood. Hence, we are warned not to judge by the sight of our eyes but to stand on faith and be guided by the word of God. Be watchful and prayerful, the bible tells us. Again, we are told that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and they became ashamed of their nakedness and sowed aprons of fig leaves to cover themselves. Because they were under the influence and promptings of the flesh, they saw something bad in what was hitherto good. They saw evil in what was good. They saw falsehood without recognizing it as such. The scripture tells us that God created them naked and they were both naked and were not ashamed and that God saw everything He made and behold it was very good (this including their nakedness)
They were not ashamed because in their purity, they saw everything the way God made them, good. The scripture said, to the pure all things are pure but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (Titus 1:15). God asked Prophet Jeremiah, “What do you see?” And when Jeremiah answered, God told him, you have well seen. (Jeremiah 1:11-12), which means that Jeremiah saw it the way God intended it to be seen and not any other way. We can equally see things the right way if only we have good knowledge of God and understanding of His ways and continue to walk with Him in truth and sincerity.
As you look around you, what do you see? And, what do you make out of what you see?
First and foremost, before I give my opinion, I would like to say that
1. we are tempted by what we see, hear, smell, touch or taste which tend to ignite our heart desires; and desires, if unchecked with proper knowledge and understanding of God could lead to lust and lust once conceived leads to sin (James 1:15). Temptation is therefore centered on our ability to overcome the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life, on our ability to prove the ”nothingness” of the physical or material world and the allness of God, for God which is all in all is the only thing that matters.
2. the testimonies of the physical senses are sometimes deceitful, therefore we must always back ourselves up with our knowledge of the word of God. Jesus overcame his temptation by using the iconic word, it is written, for the word of God is the sword of the spirit (Ephesians 6:17) by which battles are won over the flesh.
Having said these, I submit as follows:
We read from the scripture quoted above by Anywhoo that when the woman, Eve, was told that God lied about the forbidden fruit and that the forbidden fruit, if eaten, will instead make them become as gods, knowing good and evil, she saw in her thought and imagined in her heart that the fruit is actually capable of making them wise rather than causing their death. Therefore, to her, God really lied and this belief prompted her to eat the fruit and also gave to her husband who also ate it. This signifies that: Eve had no knowledge and understanding of God for if she had, she would have known that God can never lie for He is not a man that He should lie. (Numbers 23:19). His words are absolute truth. For her lack of knowledge, she failed to understand that true wisdom can only be obtained from God Himself who is the Creator rather than from the creature. This ignorance led to her unbelief and then to her disobedience. Hence, the root cause of her disobedience is ignorance. In Jeremiah 9: 23, God said, let him that glory, glory in this, that he understands and knows me. 1 John 5:20 tells us that Jesus came to give us an understanding of the true God that we should know Him and have eternal life and no longer perish for lack of knowledge. The knowledge of God and understanding of His ways is key to our faith in Him.
Eve saw something that does not exist as if it does. The condition of the forbidden fruit being able to make one wise was not part of the features of the fruit but was purely out of Eve’s lustful eyes and pride awakened by the lie of the devil who worked on her ignorance. Because of her ignorance of God and unbelief, which made her to jettison the word of God, the Spirit of God was not in her thought process, therefore, she missed the light that would have lit her eyes and guided her to the right path. We recall that it is written in John 1 : 4, that the word of God is life and this life is the light of men and Jesus said, the words I speak to you they are spirit and they are life. In the absence of this light, Eve could not comprehend rightly the situation she was in and therefore she embraced and leaned on the flesh which is always in conflict and parallel with the Spirit.
What the flesh does is to cloud our physical senses to see unreality in what is real and to see reality in what is unreal and base our decisions and actions on falsehood. Hence, we are warned not to judge by the sight of our eyes but to stand on faith and be guided by the word of God. Be watchful and prayerful, the bible tells us. Again, we are told that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, their eyes were opened and they became ashamed of their nakedness and sowed aprons of fig leaves to cover themselves. Because they were under the influence and promptings of the flesh, they saw something bad in what was hitherto good. They saw evil in what was good. They saw falsehood without recognizing it as such. The scripture tells us that God created them naked and they were both naked and were not ashamed and that God saw everything He made and behold it was very good (this including their nakedness)
They were not ashamed because in their purity, they saw everything the way God made them, good. The scripture said, to the pure all things are pure but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure but even their mind and conscience is defiled. (Titus 1:15). God asked Prophet Jeremiah, “What do you see?” And when Jeremiah answered, God told him, you have well seen. (Jeremiah 1:11-12), which means that Jeremiah saw it the way God intended it to be seen and not any other way. We can equally see things the right way if only we have good knowledge of God and understanding of His ways and continue to walk with Him in truth and sincerity.
As you look around you, what do you see? And, what do you make out of what you see?
I think that
the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food ---- just as God made it
and pleasing to the eyes ----- as God made it
I do not think that seeing things God"s way would amount to lust. I agree with the pride aspect because the tree was not fashioned for wisdom. That's where I think the devil's lie caught up with her.
the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food ---- just as God made it
and pleasing to the eyes ----- as God made it
I do not think that seeing things God"s way would amount to lust. I agree with the pride aspect because the tree was not fashioned for wisdom. That's where I think the devil's lie caught up with her.