The Error of KJV-Onlyism
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Since millions of Christians -- all over the world -- for over 400 years have used the KJB EXCLUSIVELY, you are simply talking nonsense. On the other hand a cult is formed on the basis of false doctrine. But you've been talking nonsense ever since you came on CC, trying to persuade people (more knowledgeable than you) that the KJB is not the the Word of God.
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Well, in my research on Calvinism and my many discussions with Calvinists over the years, I would not agree. There are many Calvinists who believe that rejecting the knowledge of Calvinism is not a salvation issue. Others of course do believe you have to believe in Calvinism to be saved. Some Calvinists are not even sure about their own salvation status because they believe only God is aware of the Elect. So I would not be too quick to pigeon hole them.
There is no connection between Prevenient Grace and OSAS.
A person can believe in Prevenient Grace and Conditional Salvation. Prevenient grace, a concept in Arminian theology, is a universal grace that precedes and enables individuals to respond to the gospel. It is believed to convict, call, enlighten, and enable individuals before conversion, making faith and conversion possible[1][3]. On the other hand, Conditional Salvation is a belief that a believer can choose to turn away from Christ and lose salvation, contrasting with the Calvinist doctrine of perseverance of the saints[3]. Arminians hold that salvation is conditional upon an individual's response to God's grace, emphasizing free will in accepting or rejecting salvation[3].
In summary, while Prevenient Grace prepares individuals for faith and conversion, Conditional Salvation emphasizes the role of human choice in maintaining salvation, allowing for the possibility of turning away from faith[1][3].
Source:
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/Can-a-person-47e5Be7gTkm7uUHB9JAecg
There is no connection between Prevenient Grace and OSAS.
A person can believe in Prevenient Grace and Conditional Salvation. Prevenient grace, a concept in Arminian theology, is a universal grace that precedes and enables individuals to respond to the gospel. It is believed to convict, call, enlighten, and enable individuals before conversion, making faith and conversion possible[1][3]. On the other hand, Conditional Salvation is a belief that a believer can choose to turn away from Christ and lose salvation, contrasting with the Calvinist doctrine of perseverance of the saints[3]. Arminians hold that salvation is conditional upon an individual's response to God's grace, emphasizing free will in accepting or rejecting salvation[3].
In summary, while Prevenient Grace prepares individuals for faith and conversion, Conditional Salvation emphasizes the role of human choice in maintaining salvation, allowing for the possibility of turning away from faith[1][3].
Source:
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/Can-a-person-47e5Be7gTkm7uUHB9JAecg
It really comes down to whether a person wants to have the precise words of God or not. Scripture gives no indication for your belief in that God’s words are sort of like silly putty.
Also, if you were to read the Bible, it talks about many translations done within it. We have three languages written on the sign on the cross and they are translated for us (the reader). Unless you think this truth in Scripture is in error and not perfect, then you must conclude that God can make a perfect translation. There are many things like this in God’s Word. So this proves that God can make a perfect translation. You just need to believe the testimony of Scripture.
May God bless you.
Also, if you were to read the Bible, it talks about many translations done within it. We have three languages written on the sign on the cross and they are translated for us (the reader). Unless you think this truth in Scripture is in error and not perfect, then you must conclude that God can make a perfect translation. There are many things like this in God’s Word. So this proves that God can make a perfect translation. You just need to believe the testimony of Scripture.
May God bless you.
I am really super happy today. God spoke to me in a really powerful way involving a new reason or point for the King James Bible. At first, it was a point I heard before several times, and I thought it was not a strong reason for the KJB. But then, God opened up a parallel that tied into this point for me and I was in awe of His great power and work.
Praise be unto God.
I need one more really strong point or reason. Please pray that I find it quickly and that is yet another strong and amazing reason for the King James Bible.
I did have an initial 101 Reasons for the KJB, but I decide to go back to the drawing board and add more by taking away my 23 doctrinal reasons and lumping them together as one point or reason. So I have come up with 21 new really strong reasons for the KJV. Just need one more strong one.
May God’s grace and good ways shine upon you all today.
Praise be unto God.
I need one more really strong point or reason. Please pray that I find it quickly and that is yet another strong and amazing reason for the King James Bible.
I did have an initial 101 Reasons for the KJB, but I decide to go back to the drawing board and add more by taking away my 23 doctrinal reasons and lumping them together as one point or reason. So I have come up with 21 new really strong reasons for the KJV. Just need one more strong one.
May God’s grace and good ways shine upon you all today.
This might be helpful to anyone who wishes to look deeper into the causes of corruption of the text. It's recommended to everyone. God bless.
Here's the link:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/b/burgon/corruption/cache/corruption.pdf
Here's the link:
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/b/burgon/corruption/cache/corruption.pdf
Here is one proof of Bible corruption in the so-called ‘the oldest and the best’. The Vaticanus does not have the ending of the Gospel of Mark and leaves an empty column after the Gospel of Mark. This is the only empty column in the New Testament part of this codex. It is to note that such a remarkable claim of being’ oldest the best’ is a false claim.
The End of the Gospel Book Matthew and the Beginning of the Book of Mark
The End of Mark with Blank Space
The beginning of Luke
The End of Luke and the Beginning of John
The End of the Gospel Book Matthew and the Beginning of the Book of Mark
The End of Mark with Blank Space
The beginning of Luke
The End of Luke and the Beginning of John
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King James Bible believers hold to the view that the King James Bible is not corrupt and that it is the perfect and inerrant words of of God for today.
Now, that said: Do you believe the New World Translation (NWT) put out by the Jehovah’s Witnesses is corrupt?
Do you believe Catholic Bibles are corrupt?
It is not odd or strange that Modern Bibles align with the corrupted readings in the NWT, and Catholic Bibles and yet these corruptions are not found in the KJV?
That should tell you something.
Now, that said: Do you believe the New World Translation (NWT) put out by the Jehovah’s Witnesses is corrupt?
Do you believe Catholic Bibles are corrupt?
It is not odd or strange that Modern Bibles align with the corrupted readings in the NWT, and Catholic Bibles and yet these corruptions are not found in the KJV?
That should tell you something.
So what kind of spirit behind this Stan? No way the Lord failed to get His word to us. He preserves his words for us in the form of KJB
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So that would mean you do believe all of Gods word is corrupt outside the KJV, right? That implies not just all the versions made since, but also all before the KJV were corrupt as well. This makes no logical sense to me at all.
So basically outside the KJV you believe the gates of hell have been doing nothing but prevailing over His word. I don't. Besides that, and MOST importantly, you can't support the KJV being "THE only legit word of God" with scripture. This view is completely disconnected from scripture, yet the way you blindly follow, teach, and look down at others for not agreeing with this belief, just expose's it for the cult it is. You scream up and down how the KJV is the only perfect word of God, without mistake, without error, the most important thing ever. Yet it does not say anything about your most important tradition, a tradition that seem, for you, to over ride what that Word actually says.
So basically outside the KJV you believe the gates of hell have been doing nothing but prevailing over His word. I don't. Besides that, and MOST importantly, you can't support the KJV being "THE only legit word of God" with scripture. This view is completely disconnected from scripture, yet the way you blindly follow, teach, and look down at others for not agreeing with this belief, just expose's it for the cult it is. You scream up and down how the KJV is the only perfect word of God, without mistake, without error, the most important thing ever. Yet it does not say anything about your most important tradition, a tradition that seem, for you, to over ride what that Word actually says.
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Have you actually ever read a modern translation? Clearly, you do not know what you're talking about.
John 9:41, "Jesus replied, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains." If you claim that modern translations are corrupt, you are clearly blind!
Your mind is closed to the truth!
John 9:41, "Jesus replied, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains." If you claim that modern translations are corrupt, you are clearly blind!
Your mind is closed to the truth!
In the reality of our conversation, I made no reference to past translations or the originals or copies in the original languages that we do not have today. Seeing we do not have those, I am obviously talking about what words of God we do have today.
In this thread, if you were paying attention, I did make reference to the perfect Word of God that existed in the Latin Italic Bible by the Waldenses (Which I believe dates back to the time of the apostles). I mention a book on the history of the Waldenses in how they gave the Reformers a pure Bible.
No. I believe the promise of Psalms 12:6-7. The pure words of God always existed.
Actually, by believing certain truths in Scripture we are going to naturally be led to believe that there must exist a book of the Lord today that is the pure and preserved words of God.
1. God’s Word says His words are in a book (singular or singular complete works or scrolls) (See: Deuteronomy 17:18, Joshua 1:8, Isaiah 34:16, Jeremiah 30:2, Job 19:23-24, Luke 4:20, Hebrews 10:7). The Bible prophecies about the completed Bible in Isaiah 34:16. See this video here to learn more).
2. God’s Word says Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35); It is: “incorruptible...the word of God...” (1 Peter 1:23).
3. God’s Word tells us in 1 Thessalonians 2:13: We received the Word not as the words of men, but as the very words of God.
4. God’s Word says the Scriptures are holy (1 Timothy 3:15).
5. The word of the LORD is right (Psalms 33:4).
6. God’s Word tells us that Christians are to speak the same thing (1 Corinthians 1:10). This can only be if there is one Word of God that we can all agree upon.
7. God’s Word says that His Words are “pure words” (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140).
8. God’s Word says His words will be preserved forever (Psalms 12:6-7) (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:23-25) (Also compare John 17:17 with Psalms 100:5 and Psalms 117:2).
9. God’s Word teaches us that God translates languages. At Pentecost, in Acts chapter 2: Certain Jewish men each spoke in their own tongue, and yet God translated their language so that they could understand each other with no problems (See: Acts 2:5-13). By the way, they did not speak Hebrew, and Greek.
10. God’s Word teaches that copies were preserved and not the original manuscripts (Exodus 341) (Deuteronomy 17:18). In the book of Jeremiah: We could see that after King Jehoiakim had burned the scroll of God, the Lord told Jeremiah to take another scroll and “write out” what was formerly in the previous scroll that was burned. On top of that, many “like words” were added. Meaning: Additional words were added to the former words that were in the original scroll (See: Jeremiah 36:27-28, Jeremiah 36:32).
11. God’s Word teaches that copies of His Word are “inspired Scripture.” If you were to compare the existence of the Isaiah scroll in the New Testament with Luke 4:17, along with the existence of what appears to be another Isaiah scroll in Acts 8:28, Acts 8:32-33, at least one of these scrolls would have to be a copy and not the original. Each of these manuscripts of Isaiah is called Scripture. Timothy had known the Scriptures since he was a child (2 Timothy 3:15). Again, these Scriptures he had would have been copies. 2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. ALL Scripture is inspired, and not just some. Meaning, copies that are called Scripture are given by inspiration of God and not just the originals.
12. God’s Word says His Word is Nigh (Near) unto Thee (You). Deuteronomy 30:14 says, “But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.” (cf. Romans 10:8-10). The word is very nigh unto thee. Meaning His words would not be hidden or far away from you. God’s Word (the Bible) would be near enough to be available for us to access it. The Word is not in some faraway place (See: Deuteronomy 30:13). In other words, you don’t have to send somebody over the sea and dig in a cave to find another manuscript to figure out what God said.
13. God’s Word warns us not to add or take away from His words (Revelation 22:18-19).
14. God’s Word refers to jots and tittles. Meaning, that God cares about the details in His Word. Jesus said, “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:18). Jots and tittles are marks or formations that make up the letters in Hebrew.
15. God’s Word teaches that we can have knowledge of the certainty of the words of truth.
Proverbs 22:20-21 says,
Do you truly know whether or not you have the certainty (or assurance) of the words of truth or not?
Not all Bibles say the same thing. In fact, many Modern Bibles have errors in them and teach false doctrines.
But if you are looking for something more specific that refers to the 1611 KJV, we do see some hints or clues of this.
There is the 1,611th (1611) mention of LORD in Deuteronomy 16:11 (The verse number is 1611).
In addition, in Acts 16:11 Paul was traveling by ship. If you were to take a straight line of the path he was traveling and go further beyond his destination, this straight line would end up in England where they translated the KJV. Not only that, but Paul stopped at an island along the way. On this island is a mountain. Guess the height of that mount Fengari is 1,611 meters high (1611).
Actually, after the existence of the King James Bible, the orthodox view was that the KJV was THE Bible and it is the inspired and inerrant words of God. I have statements of faith from churches from the 1700s, 1800s, and 1900s if you would like to see them. So no. It's not a cult as you slanderously state
There was no screaming involved on my part.
In this thread, if you were paying attention, I did make reference to the perfect Word of God that existed in the Latin Italic Bible by the Waldenses (Which I believe dates back to the time of the apostles). I mention a book on the history of the Waldenses in how they gave the Reformers a pure Bible.
No. I believe the promise of Psalms 12:6-7. The pure words of God always existed.
Actually, by believing certain truths in Scripture we are going to naturally be led to believe that there must exist a book of the Lord today that is the pure and preserved words of God.
1. God’s Word says His words are in a book (singular or singular complete works or scrolls) (See: Deuteronomy 17:18, Joshua 1:8, Isaiah 34:16, Jeremiah 30:2, Job 19:23-24, Luke 4:20, Hebrews 10:7). The Bible prophecies about the completed Bible in Isaiah 34:16. See this video here to learn more).
2. God’s Word says Scripture cannot be broken (John 10:35); It is: “incorruptible...the word of God...” (1 Peter 1:23).
3. God’s Word tells us in 1 Thessalonians 2:13: We received the Word not as the words of men, but as the very words of God.
4. God’s Word says the Scriptures are holy (1 Timothy 3:15).
5. The word of the LORD is right (Psalms 33:4).
6. God’s Word tells us that Christians are to speak the same thing (1 Corinthians 1:10). This can only be if there is one Word of God that we can all agree upon.
7. God’s Word says that His Words are “pure words” (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140).
8. God’s Word says His words will be preserved forever (Psalms 12:6-7) (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:23-25) (Also compare John 17:17 with Psalms 100:5 and Psalms 117:2).
9. God’s Word teaches us that God translates languages. At Pentecost, in Acts chapter 2: Certain Jewish men each spoke in their own tongue, and yet God translated their language so that they could understand each other with no problems (See: Acts 2:5-13). By the way, they did not speak Hebrew, and Greek.
10. God’s Word teaches that copies were preserved and not the original manuscripts (Exodus 341) (Deuteronomy 17:18). In the book of Jeremiah: We could see that after King Jehoiakim had burned the scroll of God, the Lord told Jeremiah to take another scroll and “write out” what was formerly in the previous scroll that was burned. On top of that, many “like words” were added. Meaning: Additional words were added to the former words that were in the original scroll (See: Jeremiah 36:27-28, Jeremiah 36:32).
11. God’s Word teaches that copies of His Word are “inspired Scripture.” If you were to compare the existence of the Isaiah scroll in the New Testament with Luke 4:17, along with the existence of what appears to be another Isaiah scroll in Acts 8:28, Acts 8:32-33, at least one of these scrolls would have to be a copy and not the original. Each of these manuscripts of Isaiah is called Scripture. Timothy had known the Scriptures since he was a child (2 Timothy 3:15). Again, these Scriptures he had would have been copies. 2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God. ALL Scripture is inspired, and not just some. Meaning, copies that are called Scripture are given by inspiration of God and not just the originals.
12. God’s Word says His Word is Nigh (Near) unto Thee (You). Deuteronomy 30:14 says, “But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.” (cf. Romans 10:8-10). The word is very nigh unto thee. Meaning His words would not be hidden or far away from you. God’s Word (the Bible) would be near enough to be available for us to access it. The Word is not in some faraway place (See: Deuteronomy 30:13). In other words, you don’t have to send somebody over the sea and dig in a cave to find another manuscript to figure out what God said.
13. God’s Word warns us not to add or take away from His words (Revelation 22:18-19).
14. God’s Word refers to jots and tittles. Meaning, that God cares about the details in His Word. Jesus said, “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:18). Jots and tittles are marks or formations that make up the letters in Hebrew.
15. God’s Word teaches that we can have knowledge of the certainty of the words of truth.
Proverbs 22:20-21 says,
“Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge, That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?”
Do you truly know whether or not you have the certainty (or assurance) of the words of truth or not?
Not all Bibles say the same thing. In fact, many Modern Bibles have errors in them and teach false doctrines.
But if you are looking for something more specific that refers to the 1611 KJV, we do see some hints or clues of this.
There is the 1,611th (1611) mention of LORD in Deuteronomy 16:11 (The verse number is 1611).
In addition, in Acts 16:11 Paul was traveling by ship. If you were to take a straight line of the path he was traveling and go further beyond his destination, this straight line would end up in England where they translated the KJV. Not only that, but Paul stopped at an island along the way. On this island is a mountain. Guess the height of that mount Fengari is 1,611 meters high (1611).
Actually, after the existence of the King James Bible, the orthodox view was that the KJV was THE Bible and it is the inspired and inerrant words of God. I have statements of faith from churches from the 1700s, 1800s, and 1900s if you would like to see them. So no. It's not a cult as you slanderously state
There was no screaming involved on my part.
I am actually Core-KJV and not KJV-Only. This means that the KJV is my core foundational text. So while I believe the KJV is the perfect and inerrant words of God (i.e., the Pure Cambridge Edtion circa. 1900) that does not mean I will not use Modern Bibles to help flesh out what the KJV says at times. However, Modern Bibles cannot be my final Word of authority because I know they teach false doctrines. So yes, I have used Modern Translations. I used them many times over the years. They have been helpful at times. However, that said, I know they can be dangerous, too.
I have been studying this topic for a very long time now.
Check out this article here:
https://www.scionofzion.com/esv_exposed.htm
(Note: Please keep in mind that I do not share all of the author's views or beliefs).
So then why are you the one who would not bother to look at my list of false doctrines found in Modern Bibles?
See again my posts in this thread starting here.
I have been studying this topic for a very long time now.
Check out this article here:
https://www.scionofzion.com/esv_exposed.htm
(Note: Please keep in mind that I do not share all of the author's views or beliefs).
So then why are you the one who would not bother to look at my list of false doctrines found in Modern Bibles?
See again my posts in this thread starting here.