The Effect of Eve's Sin on Women

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Not true.

Mar 10:3
And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

Jesus said unto them, What did Moses command you?

He did not say, What command can I formulate based upon a reality described in Genesis?

After God had made Eve from one of Adam's ribs, Moses said, Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. From Jesus' perspective, implicit in those words was the command for a man to not put asunder what God has joined together. I will stick with Jesus' understanding of this command from Moses, and you are free to do otherwise.

Of course it's true It was the same thing as the sermon on the mount where he said, you have heard it said, but I say unto you. Likewise, you have heard Moses say to put away your wife with a bill of divorcement, but I say unto don't rip asunder what God has joined together as described in Genesis

 

[keepingthingsreal]

“How can you claim that Adam's placement over Eve is a remnant of the curse of the law”

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭

I’m saying that sin ( breaking of the commandment ) is why Adam was placed over eve because that’s what God said when he cursed her just before he cursed Adam

to be clear im sayong “ Paul is talking about this in the disputed verses and it’s accurate “ you can reject this part also and say someone else added it but that’s the error in rejecting verses we don’t like

“Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;

and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. ( God said this to the woman because of what she did ) And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:

( Eves words led Adam astray just as the serpents words led her astray into the cirse from the blessing they already were under )

cursed is the ground for thy sake; ( to Adam he’s saying it’s because of what Adam did now because he’s talking to Adam ) in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:16-17, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul is discussing this event and he is saying “ I don’t allow women to teach “ and then he makes his argument for why , to Timothy , by speaking about Sam and eve and the curses they received . In another place in Roman’s chaoter five he discusses adams fault and curse of sin and death he brought .

paul didn’t allow women to teach and then he explains his reasoning but what I’m saying is everything he said is accurate.

If a women has a good message from God I’ll sit and listen until she’s done speaking friend . But the scripture is all correct it always lines right up with whatever old testsment thing they are discussing in the new whether Adam and Eve there or Adam here

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

They are usually discussing things from the Old Testament like that

Im not making the argument that women shouldn’t be allowed to speak and teach , I’m saying Paul eas clearly making that argument and supporting it with the events in Eden between Adam and Eve and Satans temptations and deceptions

Although I am certainly not fond of the poster on this thread who I put on ignore earlier today, he was correct when he stated that God did not curse either Adam or Eve. Instead, he cursed the serpent, and he cursed the ground because of what Adam had done.

Also, you did not address my actual question. Paul said that the marital union is a great mystery in that it was originally ordained by God to show the relationship of Christ and his church to the world, and that was before either sin or any actual curse entered into this world. In other words, in the same manner that Christ is the head of the church, God ordained, from the beginning, for a husband to be the head of his own wife, and there are several scriptures in the New Testament which plainly state this as being Christian doctrine, and the not the result or aftermath of some alleged curse.

How do you get around this?

I am not implying that you are deliberately seeking to circumvent this truth, but I am attempting to admonish you to seriously consider it before the Lord. In essence, you are calling what God ordained from the beginning to represent Christ and the church to the world a curse. That is not something that I can recommend for you to keep on doing in good conscience before the Lord, so please reconsider what you are saying here.

 

[Dino246]

“Wrong. My argument is on the basis of coherence.”

right remove the verses because your so coherent lol

What’s more coherent the Bible is all true ?

or the conspiracy theory that God allowed someone to change a sentance in a letter because you don’t agree and are coherent ?

especially when what paul says , we can read happening for ourselves in genesis chapters 1-3 ?

wouldnt it be biblically coherent to read those and see if Pauls word about it makes sense ? That’s what I try to do rather than explain why the verses aren’t real when I disagree

Your response can be summed up in one word, but I won't put it in print here. I suggest you go and look up the word, "coherent" before responding again.

I have read both Genesis and Paul's letters many times, and I consider the traditional interpretation incoherent. Disagree if you like, but at least have the integrity to understand what I'm saying before you denigrate it; because at this point you clearly don't understand what I'm saying.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not true.

Mar 10:3
And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

Jesus said unto them, What did Moses command you?

He did not say, What command can I formulate based upon a reality described in Genesis?

After God had made Eve from one of Adam's ribs, Moses said, Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. From Jesus' perspective, implicit in those words was the command for a man to not put asunder what God has joined together. I will stick with Jesus' understanding of this command from Moses, and you are free to do otherwise.

Moses wrote genesis too and it’s also law before the children of Israel’s covenant existed even in promise

“The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:3-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is commanding what was before Moses law came in the beginning referring to genesis chapter two

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Of course it's true It was the same thing as the sermon on the mount where he said, you have heard it said, but I say unto you. Likewise, you have heard Moses say to put away your wife with a bill of divorcement, but I say unto don't rip asunder what God has joined together as described in Genesis

No, it is not the same thing.

Jesus told those who quoted Moses' precept from Deuteronomy chapter 24 that Moses wrote that due to the hardness of their hearts. He then gave them Moses' true command which was, from Jesus' perspective, implicit in what Moses wrote in Genesis 2:24.

I am not going to go back and forth with you on this any further. I have said enough on this aspect of the conversation already, What you do with it is totally up to you.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Moses wrote genesis too and it’s also law before the children of Israel’s covenant existed even in promise

“The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:3-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is commanding what was before Moses law came in the beginning referring to genesis chapter two

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-2, 4‬ ‭

You are preaching to the choir in that this is what I have been saying all along.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Although I am certainly not fond of the poster on this thread who I put on ignore earlier today, he was correct when he stated that God did not curse either Adam or Eve. Instead, he cursed the serpent, and he cursed the ground because of what Adam had done.

Also, you did not address my actual question. Paul said that the marital union is a great mystery in that it was originally ordained by God to show the relationship of Christ and his church to the world, and that was before either sin or any actual curse entered into this world. In other words, in the same manner that Christ is the head of the church, God ordained, from the beginning, for a husband to be the head of his own wife, and there are several scriptures in the New Testament which plainly state this as being Christian doctrine, and the not the result or aftermath of some alleged curse.

How do you get around this?

I am not implying that you are deliberately seeking to circumvent this truth, but I am attempting to admonish you to seriously consider it before the Lord. In essence, you are calling what God ordained from the beginning to represent Christ and the church to the world a curse. That is not something that I can recommend for you to keep on doing in good conscience before the Lord, so please reconsider what you are saying here.

“Although I am certainly not fond of the poster on this thread who I put on ignore earlier today, he was correct when he stated that God did not curse either Adam or Eve. “

I don’t need to get around anything lol I’m not the one erasing plain words saying” it doesn’t belong in the Bible “ friend and then making the argument why …. You are the one going in a big circle avoiding it I’m saying what Paul said can be confirmed by reading what he’s talking about lol

you are the one making the argument why paup really didn’t say what’s written in his letter . I’ve gotta just tell you you’ve lost alot of credibility by making the argument the Bible’s wrong and then trying to use your “coherence “ to show why it’s got it all wrong.

So admonishments don’t really hold alot of weight when it’s based on why the Bible’s wrong and not really what Paul said . I’ve heard that a lot in life and here so I get it but I don’t respect it

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You are preaching to the choir in that this is what I have been saying all along.

Yea not really preaching or disagreeing was trying to offer some scripture to show something about what he was saying there

 

[keepingthingsreal]

“Although I am certainly not fond of the poster on this thread who I put on ignore earlier today, he was correct when he stated that God did not curse either Adam or Eve. “

I don’t need to get around anything lol I’m not the one erasing plain words saying” it doesn’t belong in the Bible “ friend and then making the argument why …. You are the one going in a big circle avoiding it I’m saying what Paul said can be confirmed by reading what he’s talking about lol

you are the one making the argument why paup really didn’t say what’s written in his letter . I’ve gotta just tell you you’ve lost alot of credibility by making the argument the Bible’s wrong and then trying to use your “coherence “ to show why it’s got it all wrong.

So admonishments don’t really hold alot of weight when it’s based on why the Bible’s wrong and not really what Paul said . I’ve heard that a lot in life and here so I get it but I don’t respect it

You must have me totally confused with another poster because I never said a word about Paul not saying what is written in his letter.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You must have me totally confused with another poster because I never said a word about Paul not saying what is written in his letter.

Yeah that comment I did I had another o was trying to reply to and mixed it up with that one sorry about that . I wasn’t disagreeing with you I was offering scriptire to show what you were saying

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Yea not really preaching was trying to offer some scripture to show something about what he was saying there

Preaching to the choir is just a popular way of saying that you are telling someone something that they already believe in or agree with, and I said it in relation to the words of Jesus that you quoted.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Yeah that comment I did I had another o was trying to reply to and mixed it up with that one sorry about that . I wasn’t disagreeing with you I was offering scriptire to show what you were saying

No worries, and thanks for clarifying what happened.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No, it is not the same thing.

Jesus told those who quoted Moses' precept from Deuteronomy chapter 24 that Moses wrote that due to the hardness of their hearts. He then gave them Moses' true command which was, from Jesus' perspective, implicit in what Moses wrote in Genesis 2:24.

I am not going to go back and forth with you on this any further. I have said enough on this aspect of the conversation already, What you do with it is totally up to you.

Have you ever looked into this ?

“Wherefore then serveth the law?

It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No worries, and thanks for clarifying what happened.

Yeah no problem

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Have you ever looked into this ?

“Wherefore then serveth the law?

It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don't want to go off topic, but, yes, I have looked into it many times. I am guessing that your emphasis is on the bold-faced part, and even greater emphasis is on the bold-faced and capitalized part.

Whatever the case may be, I have looked into both of those things extensively, but we should try to keep this thread on topic for the sake of the poster who started it. Either one might be a good topic for another thread.

 

[SomeDisciple]

"I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children; your desire will be for your husband, and he shall rule over you" (Gen. 3:16).

God didn't curse mankind; he cursed the earth and multiplied the woman's sorrow and conception for the sake of mankind. "your desire will be for your husband, and he shall rule over you" is just saying that she will continue to desire him, despite the fact that her sorrow and conception are multiplied.

 

[ValleyAnt]

God cursed the ground and the serpent. He did not curse the man and the woman; rather, He told them the consequences of their action.

There are many different translations of this passage in English. In light of this, it doesn't make sense to assign doctrinal basis to a single translation without demonstrating that the chosen translation is likely the best one.

Right. God doesn't curse (at least not now). At the time of the Fall, the Curse entered and God declared it (or made it known the same way He was only making known a spiritual law that had already long been in effect when He told Moses th.at the sins of the parents would continue through the children).

English and human language are limited. Try to find what the gems in what you read because gems are gems because they are rare and hidden.

And yes, after the Curse entered, walls were raised between male and female. One of those walls was raised by the Curse; the other wall God raised. These are all things that are not only in the Bible but that you experience daily. Asking God for eyes to see or to make sense of what you experience-- ie. everyday life-- shows you that the truths in the Bible are all around us still. Those truths are not only in the Bible; they are in all of Creation and existence.

I recall back in college when girls wanted to know how guys think and guys wanted to know how girls think. They wanted to understand each other better. I did my best to explain what was obvious or plain to me, but throughout college no one got it. It was years later when I realized why they couldn't see it: God hid it. When at the Fall sin entered, it made Adam and Eve immediately selfish. People became inclined to seek pleasure and to use others to get it. To mitigate each gender's ability to use the other, God hid from each party understanding about the other because He could no longer trust them with that information. You can see this around you today. A man can grow up surrounded by women-- sisters, aunts, friends, etc.-- and still not understand women; and a woman can experience a lot of attention and validation from men and still not understand men. This was not the case before the Fall. So, don't stay in the Bible and forget about natural, practical, everyday life. All the things in the Bible are relevant and operational right here and now just like all the past revivals are still alive (though not manifesting) and relevant today.

 

[Dino246]

Right. God doesn't curse (at least not now). At the time of the Fall, the Curse entered and God declared it (or made it known the same way He was only making known a spiritual law that had already long been in effect when He told Moses th.at the sins of the parents would continue through the children).

English and human language are limited. Try to find what the gems in what you read because gems are gems because they are rare and hidden.

And yes, after the Curse entered, walls were raised between male and female. One of those walls was raised by the Curse; the other wall God raised. These are all things that are not only in the Bible but that you experience daily. Asking God for eyes to see or to make sense of what you experience-- ie. everyday life-- shows you that the truths in the Bible are all around us still. Those truths are not only in the Bible; they are in all of Creation and existence.

I recall back in college when girls wanted to know how guys think and guys wanted to know how girls think. They wanted to understand each other better. I did my best to explain what was obvious or plain to me, but throughout college no one got it. It was years later when I realized why they couldn't see it: God hid it. When at the Fall sin entered, it made Adam and Eve immediately selfish. People became inclined to seek pleasure and to use others to get it. To mitigate each gender's ability to use the other, God hid from each party understanding about the other because He could no longer trust them with that information. You can see this around you today. A man can grow up surrounded by women-- sisters, aunts, friends, etc.-- and still not understand women; and a woman can experience a lot of attention and validation from men and still not understand men. This was not the case before the Fall. So, don't stay in the Bible and forget about natural, practical, everyday life. All the things in the Bible are relevant and operational right here and now just like all the past revivals are still alive (though not manifesting) and relevant today.

In general I agree with you, but I disagree with your bolded sentence. The Law is not "operational" for Christians today; it is a historical reality that has relevance in understanding the new covenant in Christ, but we are not "under" the Law the way ancient Israelites were.

 

[ValleyAnt]

You are terribly misinterpreting this as this has nothing to do with a curse.

When God told Eve thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee, he was talking about Eve's ungodly desire to rule over her husband or to usurp his God-given authority. This same terminology appears in the next chapter of Genesis in regard to Satan's desire for Cain.

Gen 4:6
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

Gen 4:7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Paul alluded to what God said to Eve in his first epistle to the Corinthians.

1Co 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

1Co 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Your women are the wives of the Christian men he was addressing or those who were instructed to ask their husbands at home while keeping silence in the churches.

When Paul mentioned as also saith the law, he was alluding to Genesis 3:16 and to what God said to Eve there.

One can only talk about one thing at a time. And a woman's desire to rule over a man is indeed a curse. My focus isn't the specific words being used but the meaning or interpretation of what was said in order to explain the reality we all are living right now.

It's like waking up one morning to see a dent in the side of your car: you see the negative effect of something, so naturally you're going to seek out the cause. I see the same negative effects in women in general, so I went to the Bible to look for the cause. "Nothing comes from nothing." Everything has an origin, everything has a correct answer or response, and everything (somewhere, eventually, inevitably) makes sense.

 

[ValleyAnt]

In general I agree with you, but I disagree with your bolded sentence. The Law is not "operational" for Christians today; it is a historical reality that has relevance in understanding the new covenant in Christ, but we are not "under" the Law the way ancient Israelites were.

Have to inform you that talking to me about a lot of things will either a.) cause your mind to expand or will b.) cause your mind to squirm in protest.

I wrote, "All the things in the Bible are relevant and operational right here and now." The Israelites were told to physically stone people caught in certain sins. We are not doing that today... but the principle behind it is still operational. Believe me, if you lived with a witch who wanted you dead, you wouldn't want to suffer a witch to live either. But honestly, God's judgment lingers on people who would have been stoned in the past. The difference now is they have time to repent; the same judgment of death still hangs over them. So while the application of that command/scripture to stone certain people has changed (as we see with Jesus and the woman caught in adultery), the essence/reality of it never will (and therefore Jesus told that woman to stop sinning so that the judgment/stoning could no longer hang over her).

The Bible says tons about God's Word such as that it is sweeter than honey from the honeycomb (Ps. 19), it is a discerner of the innermost and most hidden attitudes and feelings and beliefs in everyone's hearts (Heb. 4:12-13), and that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2Tim. 3:16-17).

So yes, you have certain things in Scripture that are not practiced today; but those things along with every other thing in Scripture are still operational (which means 'ready to work' or 'relevant'), not necessarily operating (which means 'currently working'). Military forces in waiting or on reserve are still operational even if they aren't operating. God's Word never goes extinct. The initial or previous use may go extinct but the Word or command or prophecy remains. This is how all moves of God (revivals, etc.) are: they reach an end on our natural plane-- like the Azusa Street revival-- but never go out, stop, or are extinguished in the spirit. God's Word is alive (and active: Heb. 4); it never dies and can't die.