The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system

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GaryA

GaryA

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PaulThomson said:
But the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) disciples are warned to flee after they see the AoD set up. If this referred to the desecration of the temple by the Roman standard entering its precincts, that happened well after the siege had been put in place, and it would be too late for the disciples to flee.
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From https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-be-in-the-future.200137/page-29#post-4603180 (discussion was focused on Matthew 24:15):

Verses 16-20 comprise the instructions that the Jew-Christians were to follow according to the recognition of what is being illustrated in verse 15.

'When ye therefore shall see...'

[then]

'follow these instructions'

(And don't waste any time doing it.)

There was a three-year seige before the Romans took the city and destroyed the temple.

The Jew-Christians followed the instructions before/as the seige began.

What did they 'see' - before/as the seige began - three years before the temple was ever touched or destroyed - that they instantly recognized as being what was illustrated in verse 15?

hint:

( whoso readeth, let him understand: )

~

What they saw was exactly what is described in the Luke account.

And, it was precisely that that they were warned to flee when they saw it.

There was no AoD circa 70 A.D. - before, during, or after the siege.
 
P

PaulThomson

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GaryA said:
The AoD has happened - back in 167 B.C.
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What do you understand the following to mean?

Luke 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

what does "the times of the gentiles" mean? And when was/will it be completed?
 
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PaulThomson

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GaryA said:
From https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-be-in-the-future.200137/page-29#post-4603180 (discussion was focused on Matthew 24:15):

Verses 16-20 comprise the instructions that the Jew-Christians were to follow according to the recognition of what is being illustrated in verse 15.

'When ye therefore shall see...'

[then]

'follow these instructions'

(And don't waste any time doing it.)

There was a three-year seige before the Romans took the city and destroyed the temple.

The Jew-Christians followed the instructions before/as the seige began.

What did they 'see' - before/as the seige began - three years before the temple was ever touched or destroyed - that they instantly recognized as being what was illustrated in verse 15?

hint:

( whoso readeth, let him understand: )

~

What they saw was exactly what is described in the Luke account.

And, it was precisely that that they were warned to flee when they saw it.

There was no AoD circa 70 A.D. - before, during, or after the siege.
Click to expand...
Sorry Gary, but your response is to circumlocutory for me to understand your points.
 
GaryA

GaryA

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PaulThomson said:
What do you understand the following to mean?

Luke 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Click to expand...
This is referring to the events of circa 70 A.D. and its aftermath.

PaulThomson said:
what does "the times of the gentiles" mean? And when was/will it be completed?
Click to expand...
The 'Times of the Gentiles' will continue until the Second Coming of Christ.

For a more complete explanation of 'Times of the Jews'/'Times of the Gentiles', read the discussion on this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
 
GaryA

GaryA

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PaulThomson said:
Sorry Gary, but your response is to circumlocutory for me to understand your points.
Click to expand...
It is actually pretty simple...

You are on the right track when you say this:
PaulThomson said:
If this referred to the desecration of the temple by the Roman standard entering its precincts, that happened well after the siege had been put in place, and it would be too late for the disciples to flee.
Click to expand...
There could not possibly have been an AoD - that people saw and then fled the city - if the AoD occurred 3 years after the starting point of the siege.

You are correct in that it would have been way too late for them to flee.

However, this is incorrect:
PaulThomson said:
But the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) disciples are warned to flee after they see the AoD set up.
Click to expand...
They were not warned to flee after they see an AoD 'event'/'incident'.

They were warned to flee when they saw what-happened-at-the-real-actual-AoD (in 167 B.C.) happen again.

The idea that the Matthew and Mark accounts of the Olivet Discourse predict a future AoD is a misinterpretation of scripture - that is not what it is saying. It is only making reference to a past event (167 B.C.) to illustrate a mental picture that the Jews would understand very well.

The key in understanding this is the parenthetical phrases in the verses that mention the AoD.

Take a look at this:

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/whoso-readeth-let-him-understand.192848/
 
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PaulThomson

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GaryA said:
This is referring to the events of circa 70 A.D. and its aftermath.


The 'Times of the Gentiles' will continue until the Second Coming of Christ.

For a more complete explanation of 'Times of the Jews'/'Times of the Gentiles', read the discussion on this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html
Click to expand...
We mostly agree on Dan. 9:24-27, it seems. I also read this passage as a single 70 weeks of years without any parenthetical church age.

However, I note that the Chaldean text does not use the definite article with "messiah" and "prince" in verse 25, so it actually says "until a messiah, a prince" and the word for prince means "one who goes before, a forerunner." So I think this messiah/anointed one and forerunner is John the Baptist.
And when I read v. 26, again "messiah" is indefinite, "a messaih shall be cut off". So, I see this a different messiah, otherwies it would have said "the messiah" referring to the one already mentioned in v. 25. I see this other Messiah as Jesus Christ.
When we come to "the end of v. 26, we read that "the people of a prince the coming (one) shall destroy (hiphil, causative verb form, so, shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary" , I think it could be that the people of the coming prince are the people of John the Baptist, the levites, who caused Titus to destroy the city by their continuing blasphemous rejection of the perfect sacrifice of Chrost and continuing to offer cattle for sins.
 
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