The collapse of America

[Cameron143]

Hi @Cameron143

We'll see. All I'm saying is that it sounds a lot more dangerous to me, in it's ability to create any change in our Constitution than anything that the liberals are doing. I haven't heard any of them talking about trying to change it. Yes, they squawk and quibble about a lot of the laws that are passed that they feel might harm their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, but no one's talking about changing it.

One of the biggest issues that I see, is that they (project 2025) seem to want to put the federal government in charge of the election processes across the country. It is established in our government, and I believe it comes from the Constitution, that the states are responsible and hold authority over the election process within their state.

States and Elections Clause | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

So voter ID destroys democracy? Not packing the Supreme Court, or taking away lifetime appointments from Supreme Court justices, or the federal government taking over health care or education, or the ongoing practice of continuing resolutions rather than individual spending bills, or the government paying companies to sensor information, or employing former government officials to lie about Intel?

You should check your spidey-sensor. Your bulb is burnt out.

 

[tedincarolina]

So voter ID destroys democracy? Not packing the Supreme Court, or taking away lifetime appointments from Supreme Court justices, or the federal government taking over health care or education, or the ongoing practice of continuing resolutions rather than individual spending bills, or the government paying companies to sensor information, or employing former government officials to lie about Intel?

You should check your spidey-sensor. Your bulb is burnt out.

Hi @Cameron143

I didn't say that the entire agenda might bring us to a place of constitutional crisis. But, if in order to accomplish the tasks that you mention, then a change to the Constitution would be necessary, then yes, that agenda will create a constitutional crisis.

We do already have voter ID verification. When I registered to vote I was required to show my driver's license. When I request a mail-in ballot I have to show my ID verification.

What's happening here is that this supposed conservative group believes that non-eligible people have been voting in our election. However, they haven't been able to drag a single voter up and show that Juan Jesus Cabrerra, who just crossed the border last month, cast a ballot. They just believe that Juan Jesus Cabrerra, who just crossed the border last month, cast a ballot. Belief isn't always reality. It's why we have the word conspiracy. That people hold to beliefs that are not the reality of what's happening in the world.

I have always had to prove my identity in some way when voting. And every time I go in to vote, they check my name against a printed roll of voters who have already been cleared by the state or local elections department. If my name is not on there, then they will let me vote a provisional ballot, which then triggers a research into that person's eligibility to vote that is done later. If it is determined that the voter was a valid voter, then the provisional ballot is counted. If not, then it isn't.

This idea that people can just walk in off the street and give any name and vote is ludicrous. It isn't happening anywhere in the country according to all of the tons and tons and tons of research that has been done on the matter.

Now, there are some local jurisdictional elections where they are more open to just allowing anyone who lives in the affected area that the vote encompasses to vote. But those are only for local agenda items and people. And that's up to the state elections and legislatures to regulate. Not the federal government.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi @Cameron143

I didn't say that the entire agenda might bring us to a place of constitutional crisis. But, if in order to accomplish the tasks that you mention, then a change to the Constitution would be necessary, then yes, that agenda will create a constitutional crisis.

We do already have voter ID verification. When I registered to vote I was required to show my driver's license. When I request a mail-in ballot I have to show my ID verification.

What's happening here is that this supposed conservative group believes that non-eligible people have been voting in our election. However, they haven't been able to drag a single voter up and show that Juan Jesus Cabrerra, who just crossed the border last month, cast a ballot. They just believe that Juan Jesus Cabrerra, who just crossed the border last month, cast a ballot. Belief isn't always reality. It's why we have the word conspiracy. That people hold to beliefs that are not the reality of what's happening in the world.

I have always had to prove my identity in some way when voting. And every time I go in to vote, they check my name against a printed roll of voters who have already been cleared by the state or local elections department. If my name is not on there, then they will let me vote a provisional ballot, which then triggers a research into that person's eligibility to vote that is done later. If it is determined that the voter was a valid voter, then the provisional ballot is counted. If not, then it isn't.

This idea that people can just walk in off the street and give any name and vote is ludicrous. It isn't happening anywhere in the country according to all of the tons and tons and tons of research that has been done on the matter.

Now, there are some local jurisdictional elections where they are more open to just allowing anyone who lives in the affected area that the vote encompasses to vote. But those are only for local agenda items and people. And that's up to the state elections and legislatures to regulate. Not the federal government.

Like I said...no spidey sense.
There is no requirement to show ID for mail-in votes. While there is a law against noncitizens voting, there is no law requiring ID to get register. That's why Dems passed all the motor-voter laws so when illegals were given licenses, they would be registered to vote. Now...a paper ballot can be printed and sent to the address without one ever being requested.
If you trust the government, that's your choice. But to believe no voter fraud is occurring is beyond me. BTW, did you know illegals were counted in the census? Why do you suppose Dems are for that? Could it be so that the extra population will afford them extra congressional seats? I've heard there is are between 6 and 19 extra congressional seats in blue districts as a result of this. Do you realize that means actual American citizens are not being represented as they ought while noncitizens have representation? People paying taxes are underrepresented and people who don't pay taxes are represented. That's OK with you?

 

[ZNP]

Like I said...no spidey sense.
There is no requirement to show ID for mail-in votes. While there is a law against noncitizens voting, there is no law requiring ID to get register. That's why Dems passed all the motor-voter laws so when illegals were given licenses, they would be registered to vote. Now...a paper ballot can be printed and sent to the address without one ever being requested.
If you trust the government, that's your choice. But to believe no voter fraud is occurring is beyond me. BTW, did you know illegals were counted in the census? Why do you suppose Dems are for that? Could it be so that the extra population will afford them extra congressional seats? I've heard there is are between 6 and 19 extra congressional seats in blue districts as a result of this. Do you realize that means actual American citizens are not being represented as they ought while noncitizens have representation? People paying taxes are underrepresented and people who don't pay taxes are represented. That's OK with you?

I think the census should count everyone whether or not they are citizens but that electoral college votes and congressional seats should be based on the number of verified registered voters. This way the same time they are doing a census they should also be verifying voter registration rolls eliminating people who died or moved out of the state.

 

[Cameron143]

I think the census should count everyone whether or not they are citizens but that electoral college votes and congressional seats should be based on the number of verified registered voters. This way the same time they are doing a census they should also be verifying voter registration rolls eliminating people who died or moved out of the state.

I agree. But that's not what is happening.

 

[tedincarolina]

There is no requirement to show ID for mail-in votes.

Hi @Cameron143

There is in my state and that particular requirement is federal law:

• Federal law requires first-time voters to show ID when requesting mail ballots. Some states have additional ID requirements for voters mailing in ballots.

PolitiFact | No ID required to vote? That’s not the case for most voters

To vote in person, there are states that don't require an ID to be presented. They use different methods, such as signature verification. But to request a mail-in ballot one must show an ID.

However, the ID issue isn't really the problem. So far, no one has shown that non-eligible voters have been voting. There have been a very few, which we have every election cycle, of a few dozen people trying to scam the system. From all that I've read, most of them, no I'm not saying all, but from what I've been reading, most of these cases have been on the GOP side of the fence in their political views.

I just don't understand why everyone is up in arms that people are voting illegally, yet they can't produce more than a couple of dozen isolated cases that mattered no more than one vote, of folks who did so. I think I read of one guy who sent in his deceased mother's mail-in ballot. And a few other cases similar where a family member tried to vote another family member's mail-in ballot. But I honestly don't think the count across the entire nation is more than a couple of hundred votes.

 

[tedincarolina]

Hi again @Cameron143

It really isn't true that people are stuffing dozens or hundreds of ballots into ballot boxes to sway the election. You can't do that!!! When a mail-in ballot comes in, it is processed through a system of checks. First of all, there can't be two ballots for the same person. So it's not like someone can go vote in person and have sent in their mail-in ballot. You can't just stand around with the phone book and make up a bunch of ballots with bogus names on them. They are checked against voter rolls.

So, I think those who are pushing this agenda just really don't know how the whole ballot process works. And they have visions of some group of people sitting in some back room filling out ballots and running them down the nearest post office. You can't do that!! You will be found out. That's why no one can show any proof that this 'voting thing' that they believe is happening, is actually happening. It isn't!!!!!

There were not a bunch of illegal Mexicans or South Americans that overran our borders and got to vote in our last election. It didn't happen. Despite the GOP talking heads that will tell you that it is. It isn't!!!!! There is absolutely no proof that a bunch of illegals voted. There are no ballots in their names. Their names aren't on any voter election roll. They cannot vote and they cannot just walk into the local elections office and ask for a mail-in ballot. Neither can someone who just came across the border last month or last year get a mail-in ballot mailed to them unless they have presented themselves before the elections office and had their ID verified and placed on the roll from which a state might send out a ballot to every registered voter. Nor do we have any evidence that someone took some deceased person's mail-in ballot that would be mailed in those states that send them out to every registered voter, except in the few cases already mentioned. And really, you think you're going to throw a national election because out of 2,000 dead people who got ballots mailed to them after their death, ten of their relatives went ahead and filled it out. Telling themselves, "Well, this is how mama would have voted." Really? I'm being completely honest here. That's what the guy did that sent his deceased mother's ballot in.

But it's not an endemic problem. There are no 'millions of illegal votes' being tallied in U.S. elections. It just isn't happening. Donald J. Trump lost the last election fair and square. If I have anything to do with it, he'll lose the next one also.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi again @Cameron143

It really isn't true that people are stuffing dozens or hundreds of ballots into ballot boxes to sway the election. You can't do that!!! When a mail-in ballot comes in, it is processed through a system of checks. First of all, there can't be two ballots for the same person. So it's not like someone can go vote in person and have sent in their mail-in ballot. You can't just stand around with the phone book and make up a bunch of ballots with bogus names on them. They are checked against voter rolls.

So, I think those who are pushing this agenda just really don't know how the whole ballot process works. And they have visions of some group of people sitting in some back room filling out ballots and running them down the nearest post office. You can't do that!! You will be found out. That's why no one can show any proof that this 'voting thing' that they believe is happening, is actually happening. It isn't!!!!!

There were not a bunch of illegal Mexicans or South Americans that overran our borders and got to vote in our last election. It didn't happen. Despite the GOP talking heads that will tell you that it is. It isn't!!!!! There is absolutely no proof that a bunch of illegals voted. There are no ballots in their names. Their names aren't on any voter election roll. They cannot vote and they cannot just walk into the local elections office and ask for a mail-in ballot. Neither can someone who just came across the border last month or last year get a mail-in ballot mailed to them unless they have presented themselves before the elections office and had their ID verified and placed on the roll from which a state might send out a ballot to every registered voter. Nor do we have any evidence that someone took some deceased person's mail-in ballot that would be mailed in those states that send them out to every registered voter, except in the few cases already mentioned. And really, you think you're going to throw a national election because out of 2,000 dead people who got ballots mailed to them after their death, ten of their relatives went ahead and filled it out. Telling themselves, "Well, this is how mama would have voted." Really? I'm being completely honest here. That's what the guy did that sent his deceased mother's ballot in.

But it's not an endemic problem. There are no 'm.illions of illegal votes' being tallied in U.S. elections. It just isn't happening. Donald J. Trump lost the last election fair and square. If I have anything to do with it, he'll lose the next one also.

Noted. You have absolutely no credibility with me on the subject.

 

[Dude653]

Hi @p_rehbein

And yet, as I see it right now, it is the GOP that is pushing an agenda that might run us into rewriting our Constitution with their project 2025 agenda. While the liberals seem to be fairly ok with our governmental system. They know that as we, as a democratic nation, move closer to the day of Jesus' return that the approval of evil is going to be the norm, not the exception. That's according to what Paul wrote to us about the increase of sin in the world.

Of course, I'm one who believes that the United States is the beast that rises up out of the sea.

Hyperbole much?

 

[tedincarolina]

Noted. You have absolutely no credibility with me on the subject.

That's fine. I wouldn't expect to have much credibility with opposing political factions in this day and age. There is so much hate and anger between parties that you just know that Satan is all over that.

Hyperbole much?

Well, here it is right from the pages of the Scriptures:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The rampant sexual immorality is all a result of our refusal to honor God. And Paul further presents so many, many kinds of sinful activity that will be growing and growing. Coming to the point that not only will we do such things, but we will approve of those who do them. That's about where we are, as I look out across the world today.

In the song Midnight Cry, the words say, "I look around me. I see prophecies fulfilling." That's me. What God asks of me is to throw as many as I can the life preserver... Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

That's fine. I wouldn't expect to have much credibility with opposing political factions in this day and age. There is so much hate and anger between parties that you just know that Satan is all over that.



Well, here it is right from the pages of the Scriptures:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The rampant sexual immorality is all a result of our refusal to honor God. And Paul further presents so many, many kinds of sinful activity that will be growing and growing. Coming to the point that not only will we do such things, but we will approve of those who do them. That's about where we are, as I look out across the world today.

In the song Midnight Cry, the words say, "I look around me. I see prophecies fulfilling." That's me. What God asks of me is to throw as many as I can the life preserver... Jesus.

You are a Democrat?

 

[tedincarolina]

You are a Democrat?

Hi @Cameron143

Yes, I am registered as a democrat, but as regards the general election, I vote 'who' I believe is the best choice among the remaining that stand. I have voted for both parties in the general election.

 

[Cameron143]

Hi @Cameron143

Yes, I am registered as a democrat, but as regards the general election, I vote 'who' I believe is the best choice among the remaining that stand. I have voted for both parties in the general election.

Doesn't surprise me. That's why you insinuate hatred and anger to others. Have you voted for candidates you know promote abortion?

 

[tedincarolina]

Doesn't surprise me. That's why you insinuate hatred and anger to others. Have you voted for candidates you know promote abortion?

I'm not usually clear on whether or not a candidate does or doesn't 'promote' abortion. Like I've said before, the issue of whether or not one gets an abortion to terminate a pregnancy is a personal decision. However, I would not expect to see a believer seeking one, and if I did know of a believer that was seeking one, I would counsel them to make another choice.

I can't see myself in a position where I would be seeking an abortion for someone because I do believe that it is wrong. But I've only believed that since I was born again. Of course, if abortion is a big issue for you, you may want to find someone else besides the current GOP candidate to support.

Oh, and I'm glad that I didn't surprise you. You really had me pegged didn't you?

 

[Cameron143]

I'm not usually clear on whether or not a candidate does or doesn't 'promote' abortion. Like I've said before, the issue of whether or not one gets an abortion to terminate a pregnancy is a personal decision. However, I would not expect to see a believer seeking one, and if I did know of a believer that was seeking one, I would counsel them to make another choice.

I can't see myself in a position where I would be seeking an abortion for someone because I do believe that it is wrong. But I've only believed that since I was born again. Of course, if abortion is a big issue for you, you may want to find someone else besides the current GOP candidate to support.

Oh, and I'm glad that I didn't surprise you. You really had me pegged didn't you?

Everyone but you knows whether a candidate is for abortion or not. Very disingenuous.
Do you know what true religion is?

 

[tedincarolina]

Everyone but you knows whether a candidate is for abortion or not. Very disingenuous.
Do you know what true religion is?

Hey again @Cameron143

I'm sure I don't. Why don't you explain it to me.

 

[ZNP]

Hey again @Cameron143

I'm sure I don't. Why don't you explain it to me.

James chapter 1 tells us what pure religion is, you care for widows and orphans and you remain unspotted by the world.

 

[Cameron143]

Hey again @Cameron143

I'm sure I don't. Why don't you explain it to me.

You've been saved 30 years and don't know what true religion is?

 

[Smoke]

I'm not usually clear on whether or not a candidate does or doesn't 'promote' abortion. Like I've said before, the issue of whether or not one gets an abortion to terminate a pregnancy is a personal decision. However, I would not expect to see a believer seeking one, and if I did know of a believer that was seeking one, I would counsel them to make another choice.

I can't see myself in a position where I would be seeking an abortion for someone because I do believe that it is wrong. But I've only believed that since I was born again. Of course, if abortion is a big issue for you, you may want to find someone else besides the current GOP candidate to support.

Oh, and I'm glad that I didn't surprise you. You really had me pegged didn't you?

Yup, just like it's an insanely personal decision to murder someone on the street in cold blood. You are very respectful, and I want to be equally respectful, but give my opinion that when I hear people describe an abortion as a very "personal decision", I read it as a tactic to minimize and trivialize the worth of the unborn child and draw sympathy towards the person wanting to execute him/her.

 

[tedincarolina]

You've been saved 30 years and don't know what true religion is?

Hi @Cameron143 and @ZNP

Yes, I know what James says that true religion is, but I was guessing you were going somewhere else with that.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, yes the United States and all the world nations will one day collapse. But what we are seeing today in the collapse of moral values across the world has been prophesied to come. My understanding is that we're not going to stop it because the account doesn't claim or infer, "but if you go out there and win the world to Jesus it won't happen'. Or, 'well if you'd just get the world to stop sinning it won't happen." I'm confident that it's going to happen. As I sit and watch it happen, yes, I'm free to make my convictions based on the Scriptures known. But I don't expect to ever win the day with them. I might win over some person or two, but the world, at large, is going to end up lost and the way we get to Jesus' return is that the world gets so overpowered with sin that God's patience runs out and He stands up and commands, "Son! Go get my children! For the time is at hand, the end has come. All that is written in the scroll has been accomplished and the day of judgment is here."