The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

[crossnote]

I'm sure glad Paul wrote before Calvin and Arminius.

 

[1ofthem]

Well, its not for a lack of asking.

Maybe you want it to be a surprise?

LOL...

She has answered your questions numerous times. So have I and many others for that matter, yet you choose to see what you want to see. Maybe open your eyes and quit twisting everything others say to you.

I actually stopped responding to you for that main reason. No matter how many scriptures are quoted to you...you continue with the same twisted replies...Continue to say the same thing we saved ourselves over powered God...etc. No matter how many times you were told no one believed that nonsense you continued to use the same lame response and try to put words in others mouth.

So here's a tip for you....Maybe open your eyes and read all the scriptures together and it wont be such a surprise...just saying.

 

[EleventhHour]

LOL...

She as answered your questions numerous times. So have I and many others for that matter, yet you choose to see what you want to see. Maybe open your eyes and quit twisting everything others say to you.

I actually stopped responding to you for that main reason. No matter how many scriptures are quoted to you...you continue with the same twisted replies...Continue to say the same thing we saved ourselves over powered God...etc. No matter how many times you were told no one believed that nonsense you continued to use the same lame response and try to put words in others mouth.

So here's a tip for you....Maybe open your eyes and read all the scriptures together and it wont be such a surprise...just saying.

Thank you @1ofthem

We are not fooled, it is a sad game they play, it all comes from a faulty doctrine that is incorrect they try to defend, having had their books on my shelf I know how subtle deception is of their words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

LOL...

She has answered your questions numerous times. So have I and many others for that matter, yet you choose to see what you want to see. Maybe open your eyes and quit twisting everything others say to you.

I actually stopped responding to you for that main reason. No matter how many scriptures are quoted to you...you continue with the same twisted replies...Continue to say the same thing we saved ourselves over powered God...etc. No matter how many times you were told no one believed that nonsense you continued to use the same lame response and try to put words in others mouth.

So here's a tip for you....Maybe open your eyes and read all the scriptures together and it wont be such a surprise...just saying.

Actually her and another member falsy him any times today in fact one her questions was based on one of the false accusations, so I can see why he responded the way he did, when they were Shown how wrong they were yet co it used with the same sherade, it can where a person down.

while we do not agree with some of what he says, to falsly accuse is wrong no matter what it is.,

 

[lenna]

frankly the calvin vs arminian debate has hurt much conversation in my view which is sad.

I was not even aware of it until this forum...and that particular debate rages here.

not on other forums I have been on but I guess they all have their 'specialties'

 

[lenna]

I hear ya

i just think we are much better off if we listen to what a person says, and not just look for keywords, and claim, well he is calvinist or she is catholic, or he is arminian

when we do so, any means of communication are wasted, because we assume we know what the other believes, and from what I have seen in my many years here, most times we are wrong, but then we are to proud to ad,it it, so it never gets resolved, as we bear false witness against the people we are trying to share our views with

well listening to the other person is THE key component to actual conversation but people do talk past each other in their desire tobe heard AND in their desire to be right

if you are wrong, especially with a thing like religion, then your world is wrong

 

[lenna]

Yep, Jack Nickolson. Probably didn't spell his last name right.

Both were good movies. Well, I should say entertaining movies. Maybe not good....

I don't get it. I did not find The Shining scary and only saw it recently. I watched it because everyone was all about how scary it was
and I was curious. meow

 

[lenna]

I'm sure glad Paul wrote before Calvin and Arminius.

I learned on the other thread that Jesus taught the same gospel as Calvin

Not Calvin taught the same gospel as Jesus, (which I would not agree with anyway) but the point being Jesus seems to have come after Calvin

 

[crossnote]

I learned on the other thread that Jesus taught the same gospel as Calvin

Not Calvin taught the same gospel as Jesus, (which I would not agree with anyway) but the point being Jesus seems to have come after Calvin

Yeah, you can learn as much on forums as you can on YouTube. That's why I never refer new converts to either.

 

[lenna]

Yeah, you can learn as much on forums as you can on YouTube. That's why I never refer new converts to either.

right. sometimes the armor gets pretty dinged up in some places

sometimes, folks will snap their suspenders and say 'oh I don't go to church. I studied up all on my own.'

well that explains it

 

[crossnote]

The Armenians come loaded with the "man does" verses while the Calvinists come loaded with the"God does" verses.
I believe the truth lies in the middle with both true but God as the first Mover.

This was my original intent of this thread, just to see where each of you put your emphasis, not to have an Arminian/Calvin debate or to rag on MacArthur etc.
As I said, I am in the middle with leanings on the 'God does' side in my posts but God is always the Initiator, that He gets the glory.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think most people fall in the middle, they agree with certain points made by both calvin and arminian, but not all of them

sadly then they still get labeled (A 2 or 3 point calvinist etc) instead of just trying to label people we should take them as individuals, I do not agree with everything my church I am in now, but I can see Gods work in them and the lost souls they are bringing in and the discipleship, so I continue to be a part of it, there is no perfect church, because they all are led by men who are fleshly. Yes they may be godly and led by god, but no one is perfect. And relying on any one is dangerous

sadly in chat rooms. It seems to be all about Romanism vs Armenian vs Calvin vs Luther etc etc, and not about God

 

[lenna]

This was my original intent of this thread, just to see where each of you put your emphasis, not to have an Arminian/Calvin debate or to rag on MacArthur etc.
As I said, I am in the middle with leanings on the 'God does' side in my posts but God is always the Initiator, that He gets the glory.

well perhaps now you might understand where I was coming from? I don't even start threads anymore because they are so easily hijacked. you cannot have a decent discussion or exchange if all people want to do is get their own points across (I am not saying you did that because you did not)

I would agree that it is some of both. I certainly do not believe God is pulling strings all the time and I certainly do not believe that He has created some people just to burn in hell.

I think He can say who the elect are because He knows the end and what people will do, but at the same time, He is not forcing anyone and He is certainly not regenerating people before salvation as some claim. Nothing in scripture will back that up

 

[Chester]

This was my original intent of this thread, just to see where each of you put your emphasis, not to have an Arminian/Calvin debate or to rag on MacArthur etc.
As I said, I am in the middle with leanings on the 'God does' side in my posts but God is always the Initiator, that He gets the glory.

Since coming to CC I have gotten a better understanding of the 5 point Calvinistic position. I formerly thought it was unbiblical and just plain crazy! But hearing some here clearly articulate the Calvinistic position has made me see that is is Biblical: in that it brings out in a powerful way God's role and his divine power and position. So I do not minimize the Calvinistic position except that then the five points of Calvinism are man's words of Biblical truth: and then if one takes man's words of a doctrinal position and takes it back to interpret Scripture you will get it wrong every time!

Much the same can be said for the Arminian position. So both sides have truths from Scripture: but if the truth from Scripture is then made a doctrinal statement used to interpret other Scriptures, you will be wrong every time!

I do not so much take a middle position between the two, but take the truths that the Bible teaches about both God's part and about man's part.

And that is also why I do not accept the doctrinal position of "once saved always saved". It is a doctrinal position (similar to one of the Calvinistic 5 points) that is then used to interpret all Scriptures. OSAS simply takes one part of Calvin's teaching and by so doing removes "free choice" from the believer.

I agree that God is the initiator (by grace) for He is the one who began the whole thing by creating man. But I do not really lean one way or the other: I just ignore the manmade statements and rest completely on the Scriptures and the Lamb of God.

 

[AndyMaleh]

I had an Armenian friend in high school, and used to listen to Metal music by Armenians when I was younger, so I have much respect for them.

Also, a Calvin University professor at Grand Rapids, Michigan gave one of the most influential lectures on my career of Software Engineering.

They are both my brothers in Christ. I wouldn't have it any other way just because of semantics.

Focus on what is the common with all Christians and avoid thinking of differences. Jesus would want you to love them without discrimination.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I am with ya until the end

i do not lean towards calvinism, I was saved because god led me to repentance and in turn faith. And because of what god did, I was justified freely and I became alive based on that justification

a calvinist would claim I leaned toward Arminianism.

its Like the grace vs works bit

a licentious person would call me a legalist because I call for Christian growth, while a legalist calls me a licentious person because I believe in eternal security

a calvinist would call me arminian leaning because I “saved myself” while an arminian calls me a calvinist, because I believe in eternal security

frankly the calvin vs arminian debate has hurt much conversation in my view which is sad.

You are God's son @EG , and that is the only label you need to bare brother...
...xox...

 

[crossnote]

Since coming to CC I have gotten a better understanding of the 5 point Calvinistic position. I formerly thought it was unbiblical and just plain crazy! But hearing some here clearly articulate the Calvinistic position has made me see that is is Biblical: in that it brings out in a powerful way God's role and his divine power and position. So I do not minimize the Calvinistic position except that then the five points of Calvinism are man's words of Biblical truth: and then if one takes man's words of a doctrinal position and takes it back to interpret Scripture you will get it wrong every time!

It is interesting that Calvin in his opus magnum 'Institutes of the Christian Religion' never got into the doctrine of Predestination until Book III (out of 4). But the way so called 'Calvinists' speak today, you'd think he was all about TULIP, when in fact he mainly focuses on the idea of Covenants...hence 'covenant theology'.

 

[crossnote]

I had an Armenian friend in high school, and used to listen to Metal music by Armenians when I was younger, so I have much respect for them.

Also, a Calvin University professor at Grand Rapids, Michigan gave one of the most influential lectures on my career of Software Engineering.

They are both my brothers in Christ. I wouldn't have it any other way just because of semantics.

Focus on what is the common with all Christians and avoid thinking of differences. Jesus would want you to love them without discrimination.

LOL, I'm sure Armenians appreciate that, but not sure if Arminians do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are God's son @EG , and that is the only label you need to bare brother...
...xox...

Amen sis. It is all that matters! And I am blessed to have people like you and @Grandpa as my brother and sister

 

[SoulWeaver]

Yes. That's the dividing line.

Its like Crossnote said. Calvinists place God as being the first cause and Arminians place people as the first cause.

If God CAUSED our Salvation then it can't be lost unless God, for some unknown reason, decides to take it back. Which is not biblical.

If people CAUSED their own Salvation then it CAN be lost. They caused it so they can further cause the loss of it.


No one has seemed to understand Crossnotes opening post.


Salvation is the dividing line, imo. If you truly understand that Salvation is a Gift that cannot be lost then you lean towards Calvinism. If you believe that what you did (obedience, repentance, baptism, etc...) caused God to save you and you further believe that what you do could cause God to un-save you then you lean towards Arminianism.

Kind of a free-will vs. Gods Will scenario. Whose will win...

I think @Magenta is right in emphasising that man doesn't really have "free" will, well not in sinful state at least. I kicked the term "free will" out of my Bible dictionary, lol.
And thinking about it, the Bible describes sinful state as being drunk, slumbering, being captive, controlled, unable to walk, blind, sick in need of healing. It doesn't seem very "free". But when one hardens heart to God, it hardens more and more. It's also like a path one has taken. It's really hard to claim man has no agency, because then it makes God the author of sin. Man has some agency rather we just don't know how to call it and do justice to the rest of the Bible.