The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

[throughfaith]

The Armenians come loaded with the "man does" verses while the Calvinists come loaded with the"God does" verses.
I believe the truth lies in the middle with both true but God as the first Mover.

I believe they are in essence the same . Which is ironic as they debate each other so much . They both come from the same pot. Jacob Arminius under Beza never fully left the reformed camp inspite of trying to find his way out . They both Agree on Total depravity and Perseverance of the saints with subtle differences, but really leading to the same conclusions .

 

[crossnote]

I believe they are in essence the same . Which is ironic as they debate each other so much . They both come from the same pot. Jacob Arminius under Beza never fully left the reformed camp inspite of trying to find his way out . They both Agree on Total depravity and Perseverance of the saints with subtle differences, but really leading to the same conclusions .

Lutheran don't hold to perseverance of the saints. Their debate usually involves the Sacraments. (another topic).

 

[lenna]

Never said I was trying to settle the issue.

so just another debate thread about the same ole issues that are ongoing in another thread?

so why bother then? never mind. rhetorical question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe they are in essence the same . Which is ironic as they debate each other so much . They both come from the same pot. Jacob Arminius under Beza never fully left the reformed camp inspite of trying to find his way out . They both Agree on Total depravity and Perseverance of the saints with subtle differences, but really leading to the same conclusions .

Arminians hold to perseverance of the saints? This is new to me I thought they denied this

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so just another debate thread about the same ole issues that are ongoing in another thread?

so why bother then? never mind. rhetorical question

?????

 

[crossnote]

so just another debate thread about the same ole issues that are ongoing in another thread?

so why bother then? never mind. rhetorical question

Why are you assuming this is a debate thread?
Hopefully it is a discussion thread sharing each other's perspectives on the matter stated in the OP.

 

[Blain]

Their point is 'God will have mercy upon whom He will' and they view man's choice as a pot in the potter's hands..

I mean yes this is true to a point but like I said balance is key

 

[crossnote]

hmmm

but that is not the proposal you made in your title to this thread

The BASIC Difference between Arminians and Calvinists

you are apparently interested in BASIC differences between the 2

now you are talking emphasis which I'm sorry, I don't know what you are getting at

I think you should read my post again and then soulweaver 's post 8

you know, never mind. I don't need another hair spitting argumentative debate . I understood you but you in your response to post 8 you went with emphasis, so from difference to emphasis

maybe you don't quite know what you are 'emphasizing' yourself and the differences have been explained ad infinitum in this forum

I'm not really either anyway and you certainly are not going to settle anything

so just another debate thread about the same ole issues that are ongoing in another thread?

so why bother then? never mind. rhetorical question

After looking back at your posts, I think I can help you with your confusion.
The OP contains what each party emphasizes which I believe is the root cause of their differences.

Outside that I'd say you are just trying to stir a pot that isn't there.

 

[lenna]

Why are you assuming this is a debate thread?
Hopefully it is a discussion thread sharing each other's perspectives on the matter stated in the OP.

actually the problem is not with me

by the very nature of the topic, two opposing sides are being introduced and there has never been in the history of the world, let alone this forum, where a debate has not sprouted and often with less than charitable offerings

we have dozens of these 'vs' sharing threads on this topic

After looking back at your posts, I think I can help you with your confusion.
The OP contains what each party emphasizes which I believe is the root cause of their differences.

Outside that I'd say you are just trying to stir a pot that isn't there.

see what I mean? I ask a question regarding your intent and you have turned it into 'I am trying to stir a pot'

and as an added insult I am told I am confused.

you create a thread about one of the most contentious topics in Christianity and certainly this forum, but I am the one stirring the pot

this is the simple question I had asked:

now you are talking emphasis which I'm sorry, I don't know what you are getting at

 

[Nehemiah6]

Arminians hold to perseverance of the saints?

It would be nice if people would simply see what the Bible has to say. The word "persevere" is absent from the King James Bible, as is the term "the perseverance of the saints". What is really meant is the eternal security of the believer in Christ.

Here is what the Westminster Confession of Faith states about Sanctification (which is generally correct):

Chapter XIII Of Sanctification
​

I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man; yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part; whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail; yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome; and so, the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Arminians seem to have a confused idea about this.

 

[throughfaith]

Arminians hold to perseverance of the saints? This is new to me I thought they denied this

They hold to 'endure to the end to be saved ' as do calvinists ..The difference is subtle . One believes you can resist the Holy Spirit the other its irresistible. However it still plays out the same . One will say 'oh they were never saved to begin with . The other will say ,they lost their salvation ..Both system s look to their works .

 

[dcontroversal]

The Calvinist most likely would serve you this passage...

For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. (Rom 9:15-16)

How would you handle it?

God delights in mercy and his mercy endures forever. He would have all men be saved and come to repentance/the knowledge of the truth. So much so that day unto day and night unto night sets forth knowledge, creation speaks, the invisible testifies and because there is NO LANGUAGE barrier..they are WITHOUT EXCUSE.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They hold to 'endure to the end to be saved ' as do calvinists ..The difference is subtle . One believes you can resist the Holy Spirit the other its irresistible. However it still plays out the same . One will say 'oh they were never saved to begin with . The other will say ,they lost their salvation ..Both system s look to their works .

No Calvinist I know thinks you have to endure till the end. Unless they are hiding it

 

[EleventhHour]

They hold to 'endure to the end to be saved ' as do calvinists ..The difference is subtle . One believes you can resist the Holy Spirit the other its irresistible. However it still plays out the same . One will say 'oh they were never saved to begin with . The other will say ,they lost their salvation ..Both system s look to their works .

Exactly true!
In many of their writings and books by their famed authors over and over again.

 

[Bbrdrd]

i also will be honest, I am not sure I have ever met a true follower of Arminianism

Arminianism really is nothing more than a boogie man Calvinists rail at to try to create a false choice. I've seen one church that lists their beliefs as "Arminian methodist" but from their statement of faith it doesn't seem like they'd agree with the articles of remonstrant but have simply adopted the term because they are accused of it so often.

 

[throughfaith]

No Calvinist I know thinks you have to endure till the end. Unless they are hiding it

Every good Calvinist believes that you have to endure to the end to be saved ( hence the P in TULIP) of course due to the U , every Calvinist will endure to the end because he is ' elect ' . The problem is he can never know he really is one of the elect unless he perseveres in good works . Now your caught in a works trip . Thats my point .

 

[EleventhHour]

Every good Calvinist believes that you have to endure to the end to be saved ( hence the P in TULIP) of course due to the U , every Calvinist will endure to the end because he is ' elect ' . The problem is he can never know he really is one of the elect unless he perseveres in good works . Now your caught in a works trip . Thats my point .

Amen!! ... Thank you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Every good Calvinist believes that you have to endure to the end to be saved ( hence the P in TULIP) of course due to the U , every Calvinist will endure to the end because he is ' elect ' . The problem is he can never know he really is one of the elect unless he perseveres in good works . Now your caught in a works trip . Thats my point .

This makes no sense

a calvinist thinks any chosen person will persevere, he believes eternal life is eternal not conditional

Endure to the end is a legalistic use, it means salvation can be lost. no Calvinist thinks salvation can be lost

 

[EleventhHour]

Every good Calvinist believes that you have to endure to the end to be saved ( hence the P in TULIP) of course due to the U , every Calvinist will endure to the end because he is ' elect ' . The problem is he can never know he really is one of the elect unless he perseveres in good works . Now your caught in a works trip . Thats my point .

Exactly, because if they do not endure they were never saved.

 

[crossnote]

They hold to 'endure to the end to be saved ' as do calvinists ..The difference is subtle . One believes you can resist the Holy Spirit the other its irresistible. However it still plays out the same . One will say 'oh they were never saved to begin with . The other will say ,they lost their salvation ..Both system s look to their works .

This goes to my OP, where Calvinists lay stress on 'God keeps' whereas Arminians emphasis is on us to keep faith.