Your saying that the people that lived in Israel for a thousand years, were never citizens of Israel?
"The Anatomy...
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Here's my understanding so far:
OT saints were part of many nations under many names. Chosen people were never citizens of a "chosen nation" until Christ and the nation in Christ. The chosen people of the OT were never citizens of a chosen nation.
There are no passages in the Christian Bible that talk about a chosen "nation of Israel", only a chosen people from across many nations, and it is explicitly stated that not all people of Israel were chosen. The Bible even has a passage in Exodus that alludes to the fact that Israel never became a chosen nation because they failed to be perfect under the Law.
The concept that the "nation of Israel is chosen" is not consistent with Christian scripture and is in fact from Talmudic Judaism. If you were a Talmudic Jew, that's just part of your faith. But as a Christian, it is contrary to scripture to accept the premise that a Christless Israel would have been a chosen nation, even if it contained a percentage of the population that were chosen people.
Yes, I am a member of the Primitive Baptist church, but I stand by my previous statement of only depending on the scriptures proving themselves, harmonizing with each other.
I have heard that John Calvin believed that everything that a person does was predetermined by God, and we do not believe that. It is called absolutism. We believe that God gave mankind the freedom to choose how he wants to live his life here on earth. That is the reason the world is in the mess it is in. But thanks be to God, that he choose a great number out of that mess to be his adopted children, and had Jesus to cleanse them from their sins on the cross.
Jesus doctrine gives his people more comfort, peace, hope, and security, than all of the false doctrines of the world.
Just for you.
God quickened us when we chose to believe the gospel. (Eph 1:13)
The gift is salvation by faith, not the faith to believe (Eph 2:8-9). God wants all people to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). A natural person can choose to seek God, and when he does, and decides to believe the gospel, he becomes born again. Eph 1:13; Rom 10:9, 17
You were born again when you decided to believe the gospel (Eph 1:13).
It was. Eph 1:13-14; Acts 2:38
Christ died for everyone. 1 John 2:2 Those who choose to believe the gospel are the ones that become saved. Eph 1:13; Rom 10:9; Acts 16:30-31; John 3:16
Anyone can choose to become one of God's elect. 1 Tim 2:4; 2 Pet 3:9; Ezek 33:11
Calvinism isn't true.
The first thing that you fail to glean from the scriptures is that according to Greek translation the words Salvation = deliverance, saved =delivered, save = deliver. his chosen people were delivered once, from their sins, and secured their inheritance on the cross. They are delivered many times as they sojourned here on earth.
God choose an elect people - Eph 1:4. God made them accepted - Eph 1:6. God predetermined them to be adopted as his children - Eph 1:5. God predetermined their inheritance - Eph 1:11.
The "faith" is not man's faith, but is Christ's faithfulness in going to the cross to justifying (Gal 2:16) those that God gave him.
Whew.
I'm glad I remembered correctly.The scriptures do harmonize, but not with Calvinism.
God also gave mankind the freedom of will to believe the gospel.
Not before they believed.
Agreed! We just don't agree on what Jesus' doctrine is. God wants everyone to be saved. He is not willing that any should perish. He wants the wicked to turn from their evil ways so they might live (be saved). You cannot harmonize those verses with the rest of scripture unless you change their clear, simple meaning.
Predestination verses are about Christianity in general, not individual Christians. No indivdual person is predestined for anything. Again, God gave people free will. He wants everyone to choose to believe the gospel and become saved.
The faith is a man deciding to have faith in Jesus Christ, something anyone can choose to do.
There is a deliverance (salvation) here in time, when a child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth. The "all men" being those who are born again. Rom 10:1-3 is another example of God's born again people who have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
We have to look back to 2 Pet 1:1 to see who Peter is speaking to in 3:9, and that is to them that have obtained like precious faith. Peter is giving them a warning that when they commit a sin, they should repent in order to not separate themselves from their fellowship with God. Peter even includes himself in his warning by using the word "USWARD". "perish=death=separation"
When a child of God commits a sin, they separate themselves from their fellowship with God, temporary, until they repent, because God will not fellowship sin, even turning his back on his own Son on the cross.
You are not separating eternal deliverance from timely deliverances. Jesus instructed his apostles to preach to the "lost sheep of the "house of Israel"/Jacob. God ordains his elders to preach to his newborn babes in Christ (lost sheep) teaching them the knowledge of God's righteousness contained in the gospel of Christ that they may grow thereby., and be delivered from their ignorance of the knowledge.
The gospel teaches about eternal deliverance, but the gospel does not deliver you eternally. The gospel does, however, deliver a child of God here in time.
You assign your own definition because as stated: "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." it contradicts your belief.
Pretty fancy footwork, there...
I believe what it says.
The difference is our interpretation of the scriptures. I believe that all of the scriptures must harmonize before you understand the truths contained in them.
Many students of the bible fail to take into consideration that God has changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel. (Gen 32:28) Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect people (Rom 9:11) that include every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).
Agreed. You interpret them from a Calvinist perspective, I do not.
Agreed.
People rarely change their view on these things. Calvinists tend to remain Calvinist. I will continue to believe that God wants everyone to be saved, and that anyone has the capacity to decide to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.
God rejected the nation of Israel and favored the Gentiles. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, who is representative of God's elect from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation
I agree that before any of God's children will understand the truths that are contained in Jesus doctrine, they will have to deny their own entelect, and depend upon the Holy Spirit within them to reveal it to them.
Do you think that the scriptures teach that Christ only died for those that his Father gave to him,? as John 6:39 says.
People do not have the Holy Spirit within them before they decide to believe the gospel. When a person hears the gospel and decides to believe it THEN they are sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13).
Christ died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Anyone has the capacity and/or ability to believe the gospel.