Test Everything by Scripture

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It’s becoming clear that this discussion with @ChristRoseFromTheDead isn’t really about seeking the truth of God’s Word, but about defending a particular system or tradition.

I’m not here to push an agenda — Catholic, Calvinist, or otherwise — but to uphold what Scripture actually says.

God’s Word stands above every denomination and philosophy. When our loyalty shifts from truth to team, we stop listening to the very voice of God through His Word.

My prayer is that we’d all return to the simple question that matters most:
“What saith the Scripture?” (Romans 4:3)

Grace and Peace
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Are you seminary or bible college trained? If yes, I'd like to know which one(s) so I can check their theological bent.
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I’m not here to promote a school or system — only Scripture.
My views come from careful study of the Word, not from allegiance to any institution.
If something I say is biblical, the source doesn’t matter; if it isn’t, then it should be rejected no matter where I learned it.
That sounds like you’re more interested in labeling me than discussing Scripture.
My credentials don’t determine truth — God’s Word does.
And from the way you’re approaching this, it seems the authority of Scripture is being held in lower regard than the pedigree of the person quoting it.
Let’s measure ideas by the Bible, not by résumés.

Grace and Peace
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
What saith scripture according to what the holy spirit says, not according to what Calvinism says
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I don’t claim loyalty to Calvin, Luther, or any system — only to Christ and His Word.

If something I say aligns with Scripture, then the source isn’t Calvinism — it’s truth. And if it doesn’t align with Scripture, then it should be rejected, no matter who said it.

The issue isn’t whether an idea sounds “Calvinist,” “Catholic,” or “Arminian,” but whether it’s biblically true.

Acts 17:11 praises the Bereans because they “searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” That’s all I’m trying to do — to measure every teaching, mine included, by the Word of God.

Grace and Peace
 
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Election

The problematic part of the doctrine of election (DOE) is not the term “elect”, which simply means “choose souls to be saved”, but rather it is whether God determines that only some sinners will be saved and that the majority of humanity are condemned to hell in accordance with what is known as the Calvinist TULIP dogma, which may be described as follows (with Scriptures indicating the opposite in parentheses):

T – total depravity, meaning souls are unable to exercise sufficient MFW to seek salvation. (Matt. 7:7, Rom. 1:20, 2:5, 3:22-28)

U – unconditional election, meaning that souls need not satisfy a divine requirement such as faith or repentance, but God chooses to save some while damning the rest to hell. (Matt. 4:17, 7:21, John 3:16, Eph. 2:8-10, Gal. 5:6, 1John 3:23)

L – limited atonement, meaning that Christ died to pay the penalty of sin only for elect souls. (Rom. 3:22-26, 5:18, 2Cor. 5:14-19, Heb. 2:14-17, 1John 2:2)

I – irresistible grace, meaning that elect souls cannot resist or refuse God’s will for them to be saved. (Matt. 13:14-15, 23:37, 1Tim. 2:3-4, Tit. 2:11, 2Pet. 3:9)

P – perseverance of the saints, meaning that the elect cannot repudiate their salvation and commit apostasy, because God perseveres in keeping them saved. (Rom. 11:22, 1Cor. 15:2, Gal. 5:4, Col. 1:22-23, 2Thes. 1:4-5, 2Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6&14, 10:35-36, Jam. 1:12, 2Pet. 1:10-11, 2:20, 1John 2:24-25 and Rev. 2:10)

The viewpoint opposed to TULIP may be termed Moral Free Will (MFW) and described as follows:

M – God’s requirement for salvation (GRFS) is a Moral condition called faith, which is manifested as seeking God’s righteousness or salvation, which in turn presumes sufficient human volition even for sinners to make them morally accountable.

F – God enables all morally accountable souls sufficient Freedom to satisfy GRFS—or not, because His grace is not irresistible, which means sinners are accountable and justly condemned when they do not repent and accept Christ’s atonement for their sins

W – Faith is almost synonymous with Will, but volition focuses on faith as cooperation with God (or not), and cooperating with God by accepting His grace is NOT meritorious or working to earn heaven or salvation by obeying moral laws.

A systematic study of the DOE necessitates interpreting Scripture that seems to be the fountainhead of the Calvinist TULIP dogma, mainly Romans 9:10-24, may be found in Lesson 11.

The concerns of those who accept TULIP—to affirm the sovereignty of God and the inability of souls to earn salvation—are valid, but the solutions are problematic, because they deny or ignore Scripture teaching the love of God for all sinners and the moral accountability of sinners for rejecting the love of God, thereby effectively perverting the Gospel (Gal. 5:6) and impugning God’s justness/righteousness (Psa. 33:5, Isa. 9:7).

The apparent reasons for these errors are threefold: 1. Ignorance of Scripture that contradicts their dogma, such as those teaching the possibility of apostasy, 2. Viewing faith as a meritorious work rather than as the non-meritorious condition of cooperating with God’s grace, and 3. Unconcern about portraying God as unjust by showing favoritism toward the elect. Once these errors are cured by including Scripture supporting MFW, doctrinal harmony is enhanced.
 
LightBearer316 said:
I’m not here to promote a school or system — only Scripture.
My views come from careful study of the Word, not from allegiance to any institution.
If something I say is biblical, the source doesn’t matter; if it isn’t, then it should be rejected no matter where I learned it.
That sounds like you’re more interested in labeling me than discussing Scripture.
My credentials don’t determine truth — God’s Word does.
And from the way you’re approaching this, it seems the authority of Scripture is being held in lower regard than the pedigree of the person quoting it.
Let’s measure ideas by the Bible, not by résumés.

Grace and Peace
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Sounds impressive, but you don't, and you don't sound honest. A simple yes or no would have been the appropriate response rather than your word-salad evasion. You act like you're trying to hide something
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Sounds impressive, but you don't, and you don't sound honest. A simple yes or no would have been the appropriate response rather than your word-salad evasion. You act like you're trying to hide something
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That reply you received is a classic deflection tactic — he ignored my biblical point and tried to impugn my motives instead.
That’s an unfortunate assumption. There’s nothing hidden here — I’ve been transparent.
The only thing I’m trying to “hide” behind is the Word of God.
Personal attacks don’t prove truth; Scripture does.
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” — 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)


Grace and peace.
 
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LightBearer316 said:
That reply you received is a classic deflection tactic — he ignored my biblical point and tried to impugn my motives instead.
That’s an unfortunate assumption. There’s nothing hidden here — I’ve been transparent.
The only thing I’m trying to “hide” behind is the Word of God.
Personal attacks don’t prove truth; Scripture does.
“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” — 1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)


Grace and peace.
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Face it. You're a sophist and a casuist
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Face it. You're a sophist and a casuist
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Sophists were traveling teachers who used clever rhetoric to win arguments rather than to seek truth.
Name-calling isn’t an argument.
I’m not here to win debates or play word games — just to stand on Scripture.
If something I’ve said is unbiblical, show it from the Word and I’ll gladly correct it.
Otherwise, let’s stay on topic.

Grace and Peace
 
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I don’t claim loyalty to Calvin, Luther, or any system — only to Christ and His Word.

If something I say aligns with Scripture, then the source isn’t Calvinism — it’s truth. And if it doesn’t align with Scripture, then it should be rejected, no matter who said it.

The issue isn’t whether an idea sounds “Calvinist,” “Catholic,” or “Arminian,” but whether it’s biblically true.

Acts 17:11 praises the Bereans because they “searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” That’s all I’m trying to do — to measure every teaching, mine included, by the Word of God.

Grace and Peace
 
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
I've showed you many times and you resort to casuistry to try to win the argument
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Accusing me of casuistry isn’t the same as proving I’m wrong.
Show from Scripture where my point contradicts God’s Word, and I’ll gladly listen. That’s the standard we should all use—Bible, not rhetoric (Acts 17:11).

Grace and Peace
 
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@ChristRoseFromTheDead Baptism is not the saving act itself, but rather an outward sign and testimony of the salvation already received by faith.

Salvation by Faith Alone (Before Baptism)
  • Ephesians 2:8–9 — “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
  • Romans 3:28 — “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
  • Romans 10:9–10 — “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
  • John 3:16 — “Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
  • John 5:24 — “He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life.”
  • Acts 16:31 — “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”
Faith Comes First — Then Baptism Follows
  • Acts 10:43–48 (Cornelius) — They believed and received the Holy Ghost before being baptized.
  • Acts 8:36–37 (Ethiopian eunuch) — “If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.”
    -> Belief first, baptism second.
  • Acts 2:41 — “Then they that gladly received his word were baptized.”
    -> Receiving the Word precedes baptism.
  • Mark 16:16 — “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.”
    -> Belief comes first; unbelief condemns (not lack of baptism).
Baptism as a Public Testimony / Symbol
  • Romans 6:3–4 — Baptism pictures our identification with Christ’s death and resurrection.
  • 1 Peter 3:21 — “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us… not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.”
    -> It’s a figure or symbol — not a cleansing of sin itself.
  • Galatians 3:26–27 — “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”
    -> Faith makes us children of God; baptism outwardly identifies us with Him.
“By grace… through faith.” — Ephesians 2:8​
Baptism follows salvation as an act of obedience, never as the means of receiving it.​

Grace and Peace
 
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