Teaching Obedience to the Law Unmasked: Neo-Judaism in the Church

[jamessb]

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law, so it should at least be worth investigating the issue of which law he was referring to us as not being under out of all of the categories of law that he spoke about. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted a law that our faith upholds with works of the law that are not of faith.

In Romans 7:7, Paul said that the Law of God is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease. Furthermore, in Romans 7:12, he said the it is holy, righteous, and good, so it is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over us. In contrast, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful, it causes sin to increase, and it is a law where sin has dominion over us. In Romans 6:14, Paul described the law that we are not under as being a law were sin had dominion over us, so he was speaking about the law of sin, not about the Law of God. Moreover, in Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under it. In addition, everything else in Romans 6 speaks in favor of obedience to God and against sin.

In regard to Galatians 3:10-12, God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to rely on God is by obedient relying on His instructions, it is contradictory to think that we should rely on God, but not on His instructions, and the position that God's instructions are untrustworthy/not of faith is the position that denies the trustworthiness/faithfulness of God. According to Galatians 3:10, the only way to avoid coming under the curse of the Law of God is by continuing to obey it, which is in accordance with what the passage that it is quoting from of Deuteronomy 27-28, where relying on God's law is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed. So if someone were to rely on works of the law instead of relying on the Law of God, then they would thereby come under the curse for not relying on the Law of God. It would be absurd to interpret Galatians 3:10 as Paul quoting from a passage to support a point that is arguing against it by saying that relying on God's law is the way to be cursed and not relying on it is the way to be blessed.

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul associated a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 saying that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Law of God will live by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of God. Moreover, the context of Habakkuk 2 contrasts the righteous who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Law of God and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of God, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it.

In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not outside the Law of God, but under the Law of Christ, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of Christ, after all Christ is God, so Paul was denying that he was under the Law of God. Paul was speaking about giving up his rights in order to meet people where they were at, not speaking about doing what God's law reveals to be sin in order to reach sinners for Christ because that would have completely undermined his message.

When you understand what Paul wrote we can discuss this further. Until then, read Romans 7:1-6

Here it is in the NET (with my emphases): Or do you not know, brothers and sisters (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law is lord over a person as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of the marriage. So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she is joined to another man, she is not an adulteress. So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

Nothing could be clearer. What can't you understand this basic principle of Christianity

 

[Soyeong]

When you understand what Paul wrote we can discuss this further. Until then, read Romans 7:1-6

Here it is in the NET (with my emphases): Or do you not know, brothers and sisters (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law is lord over a person as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of the marriage. So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she is joined to another man, she is not an adulteress. So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, so it should be worth at least considering the possibility of whether what you emphasized is referring to the Law of God or to the law of sin.

In Romans 6:16-23, Paul contrasted being slaves to sin, which leads to death or slaves of obedience, which leads to righteousness, that we have been set free from sin in order to become slaves of righteousness, and that we should no longer present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin, but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God.

So obedience to God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life in Christ, which means that you are essentially interpreting Romans 7:1-6 as saying that we need to die to God's gift of eternal life. Why does it make sense to you to interpret the proceeding verses as saying that we have been set free from God's law for how to what is righteous and are now free partake in impurity, lawlessness and sin because we are no longer under the Law of God?

In Romans 7:1-4, at no point was the woman set free from needing to obey the Law of God, and if she were to get married to a 2nd husband after the death of her first husband, then she would still be required to refrain from committing adultery, so there is nothing that leads to the conclusion that in the same way. God's word is His instructions for how to bear fruit for Him and for how to be unified with God's word made flesh, so we don't need to die to God's word in order to be free to do those things, but rather we need to die to a law that was hindering us from doing those things, namely the law of sin. Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, so it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:5 as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. Likewise, in Romans 7:6, it would be absurd to interpret that a Paul delighting in being held captive to sin, but rather he is the law of sin that is what he described in Romans 7:23 as holding him captive.

Nothing could be clearer. What can't you understand this basic principle of Christianity

Why does it make sense to you to interpret a servant of God as speaking against obeying Him? And even if you were interpreting Paul correctly, why does it make sense to you think that you should then obey him instead of God? In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law. The bottom line that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that Paul said than to disregard anything that God has commanded, though it doesn't need to come down to that because the reality is that Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against anyone obeying His commands. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so why does it make sense to you to think that a basic principle of religion based on following what Christ taught is that we should refuse to follow what He taught?

 

[Inquisitor]

When you understand what Paul wrote we can discuss this further. Until then, read Romans 7:1-6

Here it is in the NET (with my emphases): Or do you not know, brothers and sisters (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law is lord over a person as long as he lives? For a married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of the marriage. So then, if she is joined to another man while her husband is alive, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she is joined to another man, she is not an adulteress. So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code.

Nothing could be clearer. What can't you understand this basic principle of Christianity

Interesting quotation from Romans 7.

Paul is directly addressing the Jews at Rome in this chapter. The Gentiles were ignorant of the law, the covenants, the patriarchs, etc.

But now we have been released from the law

The Gentiles were not released from the law in the first century. We know this without any doubt. The Gentiles did not even know God let alone knowing the law or the prophets.

Paul said, "for I am speaking to those who know the law".

A tremendous misunderstanding has swept the Christian world for 2,000 years. The misunderstanding is that Paul is addressing the Jews within that church in Rome. There were extremely intelligent people that studied the scripture throughout the centuries. How on earth did they all miss the obvious?

Who was Paul really talking to in Romans chapters 2 to 11?

If Paul is addressing the Gentiles directly in Romans 7, then this chapter is impossible to understand. The Gentiles never had the law.

If Paul is directly addressing the Jews then But now we have been released from the law makes perfect sense.

 

[Inquisitor]

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive, so it should be worth at least considering the possibility of whether what you emphasized is referring to the Law of God or to the law of sin.

The law killed Saul.

Saul was not delighting in his legal obedience.

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Not the words of someone enjoying themselves.

The law was designed to kill, to condemn, in the hope that the Jews would cry out for the messiah.

The law executed Saul.

 

[Soyeong]

Interesting quotation from Romans 7.

Paul is directly addressing the Jews at Rome in this chapter. The Gentiles were ignorant of the law, the covenants, the patriarchs, etc.

But now we have been released from the law

The Gentiles were not released from the law in the first century. We know this without any doubt. The Gentiles did not even know God let alone knowing the law or the prophets.

Paul said, "for I am speaking to those who know the law".

A tremendous misunderstanding has swept the Christian world for 2,000 years. The misunderstanding is that Paul is addressing the Jews within that church in Rome. There were extremely intelligent people that studied the scripture throughout the centuries. How on earth did they all miss the obvious?

Who was Paul really talking to in Romans chapters 2 to 11?

If Paul is addressing the Gentiles directly in Romans 7, then this chapter is impossible to understand. The Gentiles never had the law.

If Paul is directly addressing the Jews then But now we have been released from the law makes perfect sense.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin, and Romans 7:6 speaks about being released from the law that held us captive, so it would make much more sense to interpret him as speaking about being released from the law of sin that held him captive instead of being released from the Law of God that he delighted in obeying. Moreover, the law of sin is something that Gentiles do need to be released from. When Paul addressed those who called themselves Jews in Romans 2:17, he was addressing Gentiles who had converted to being Jews.

 

[oyster67]

As paradoxical as it may sound the Law is BOTH righteous and also puts people into bondage. Regarding the Law Paul said this in 1 Timothy 1:
8 But we know that the Law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the Law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

So those who are lawless must understand that there is a Law against lawlessness. But Paul also said that the Law was our "schoolmaster" to bring us to Christ. So this is not an either/or situation. The Law is good as long as it is used lawfully.

Yes, the Old Law is a revealer and shows us our need for a Saviour. It exposes sin and leaves us without excuse for not seeking salvation by the new and better Way. The Old Law is a pointer-forwarder.

 

[Soyeong]

The law killed Saul.

Saul was not delighting in his legal obedience.

24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

Not the words of someone enjoying themselves.

The law was designed to kill, to condemn, in the hope that the Jews would cry out for the messiah.

The law executed Saul.

In Romans 7:12-13, Paul said that the Law of God is good and that it is not that which is good that brought death to him, yet you are trying to use his words to say that it is that which is good that brought death to him.

David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he loved the Law of God and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of obeying it, then we will also delight in obeying it as Paul did. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can’t believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of getting to obey the Law of God,

The reason that Paul wasn’t enjoying himself was because of the law of sin that was holding him captive and waging war against the law of his mind.

Earthly fathers don’t give rules their children with the he goal of condemning them, but rather they give them rules for their own good in order to bless them by teaching them how to rightly live, and this is that much more true of our Heavenly Father who knows how to give good gifts to His children (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, the Old Law is a revealer and shows us our need for a Saviour. It exposes sin and leaves us without excuse for not seeking salvation by the new and better Way. The Old Law is a pointer-forwarder.

Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God’s law, so God’s law does not just show us our need for a Savior, but also shows us the way that he is saving us from continuing to live in sin.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

From the NAS Greek Lexicon for pleroo:
"to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment"

After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. Moreover, he did not mention anything about his death in the Sermon on the. Mount. It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so preaching repentance and remission of sins in his name to all nations is calling for the nations to obey the Mosaic Law.


Indeed, in Romans 10:5-8 references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing. In Deuteronomy 32:46-47, it is our very life. In Proverbs 3:18, it is a Tree of Life for all who take hold of it. In Proverbs 6:23, for the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey him. In Revelation 22:14, those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life. In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so obedience to God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life.

Moreover, in Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts and sending the Spirit to lead us to obey it, so 2 Corinthians 3:6 should be interpreted in a way that is in agreement with these verses rather than a way that is contrary to them. If following the letter referred to correctly following God's instructions and that leads to death, then God should not be trusted to guide us and we should not be His followers.

The fact that God's law is a ministry of life for those who obey it and a ministry of death for those who refuse to obey it is not a very good reason to refuse to obey it. The veil was preventing people from seeing that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus, which is eternal life (John 17:3), but that veil also prevents those who reject the Mosaic Law from seeing the same thing.

naw

 

[Magenta]

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which we
are told to follow (1 Peter 2:21-22, 1 John 2:6). The way to follow Jesus is not by refusing to follow what he taught.

How interesting that you cite a verse that exhorts us not to be deceitful while you attempt to deceive others. You really ought to listen to Jesus, and stop trying to put new wine into an old wine skin. That new patch you keep trying to sew onto your old covenant doesn't work either, and Jesus cautioned about that, also, but you ignore Him while chirping about how we are supposed to practice the religion that He cursed and brought to an end. Christians are NOWHERE in Scripture told to practice Judaism. Shame on you for all your lies.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How interesting that you use a verse that exhorts us not to be deceitful while you attempt to deceive others. You really ought to listen to Jesus, and stop trying to put new wine into an old wine skin. That new patch you keep trying to sew onto your old covenant doesn't work either, and Jesus cautioned about that, also, but you ignore Him while chirping about how we are supposed to practice the religion that He cursed and brought to an end. Christians are NOWHERE told to practice Judaism. Shame on you for all your lies.

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a veil

“And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s a veil

“And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

2 Corinthians 3:13-15~ We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds
were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed. And even to this day when Moses
is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

2 Corinthians 3:13-15~ We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away. But their minds
were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed. And even to this day when Moses
is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Oooooo blue is my favorite !!!!

“For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:19‬ ‭

“What then? are we ( Jews ) better than they? ( gentiles ) No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God. ( all in the same sinking boat )

….Now we know that what things soever the law saith,( everything the law says ) it saith to them who are under the law:that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:9-11, 19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid!

Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.

For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I ( the sinner ) died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life,

I ( the sinner ) found to be unto death.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you take a person in this condition inside thier heart

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and you set a detailed account of sin before them and tell them don’t do any of these things it’s not going to work for them is the idea but if your intention is to show them they also are sinners and are condemned to die for thier sins

then tbey will hear the part about how thier sins are remitted and they are promised salvstion , redemption , resurrection from death , blessing for that curse he took away new birth death to the old sinful way born into the ways of Gods children loved and in whom he is well pleased having thier sins removed and washed clean so they can stand and hear what he’s saying themselves

The old was Importwnt part of the plan it were on to better things now the reality of Gods word to mankind has come the one that will save our souls and not make us guilty before God but instead this

“and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This had to come first or that makes no sense

every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”

Man needed to understand sin and death in order to know the value of repentance and belief in Jesus

 

[Magenta]

Romans 3:19-20 plus James 2:10

 

[Magenta]

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.” Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Proverbs 4:20-23

 

[Inquisitor]

In Romans 7:12-13, Paul said that the Law of God is good and that it is not that which is good that brought death to him, yet you are trying to use his words to say that it is that which is good that brought death to him.

David said repeatedly throughout the Psalms that he loved the Law of God and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of obeying it, then we will also delight in obeying it as Paul did. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can’t believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of getting to obey the Law of God,

The reason that Paul wasn’t enjoying himself was because of the law of sin that was holding him captive and waging war against the law of his mind.

Earthly fathers don’t give rules their children with the he goal of condemning them, but rather they give them rules for their own good in order to bless them by teaching them how to rightly live, and this is that much more true of our Heavenly Father who knows how to give good gifts to His children (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

May I ask you to correct your post.

On the one hand, you have the delight that Paul experienced of obeying the law?

Then on the other hand, the reason that Paul wasn’t enjoying himself was because of the law of sin, that was holding him captive.

What is the role of the law, for your enjoyment, or for making you aware of your evil nature?

To delight the Jews because it's wonderful, or does the law condemn the Jews?

Choose one and stick to it.

 

[ResidentAlien]

What I'd like to know is how and why so many people seem to be getting sucked into the Judaizer trap. Do they just not know the scriptures, or not understand? Judaizers make some pretty convincing arguments and I suspect people who are immature in their faith fall for it. People need to know this isn't just another sect of Christianity but a cult. Paul said in Galatians 5:4 that those who attempt to be justified by law are estranged from Christ. So you can't claim to be a disciple of Christ and at the same time try to observe the law; it's one or the other.

There seems to be a massive presence of Judaizers online. Are their numbers actually increasing or do they just all hang out online?

 

[Soyeong]

naw

If you disagree with my position without establishing that I have misunderstood the verses that I used to support my position, then you are denying the truth of those verses.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Proverbs 4:20-23

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you disagree with my position without establishing that I have misunderstood the verses that I used to support my position, then you are denying the truth of those verses.

Naw I just think you don’t understand me disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I reject scripture . But it’s just my opinion not anything more than another person in a Bible discussion forum with an opinion like everyone else

I think you can’t hear certain things yet like this

“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think you have a hard time with two covenants that aren’t the same and as well as the ordination and mediation of angels and Moses over the law I don’t think you understand that part either

about it’s just an old fool in a bi ke discussion forums opinion so I wouldn’t give a huge hoot about it or take any offense or anything