Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

The writer of Hebrews wrote Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now honestly, did the writer write here that Christ tasted death for all mankind without exception here ? Nope he did not. In the original man isnt in the verse:

τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

Man was added by the translators. The word pas can refer to all the whole, the sum total of all the group intended. Context is important n determining the group that the writer has in mind. Lets look at the very next verse 10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Bingo, its the many sons that e suffered and died for, or tasted death for, The word many polys:

many, much, large, many, numerous, great

He tasted death for many Sons, a great number of them, everyone of them. This is important,, because later in the same epistle the writer uses the adjective many again to denote who He tasted death for Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

See to taste death back in Heb 2:9 is the exact same thing as " to bear the sins of many;" again, the many Sons of vs 10, everyone of the sons is who He tasted death for, not all of mankind without exception.

See Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[ServentofYeshua12]

BOOYAH!!! THAT WAS ENDED THE CALVIN DEBATE

 

[Hakawaka]

The writer of Hebrews wrote Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now honestly, did the writer write here that Christ tasted death for all mankind without exception here ? Nope he did not. In the original man isnt in the verse:

τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

Man was added by the translators. The word pas can refer to all the whole, the sum total of all the group intended. Context is important n determining the group that the writer has in mind. Lets look at the very next verse 10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Bingo, its the many sons that e suffered and died for, or tasted death for, The word many polys:

many, much, large, many, numerous, great

He tasted death for many Sons, a great number of them, everyone of them. This is important,, because later in the same epistle the writer uses the adjective many again to denote who He tasted death for Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

See to taste death back in Heb 2:9 is the exact same thing as " to bear the sins of many;" again, the many Sons of vs 10, everyone of the sons is who He tasted death for, not all of mankind without exception.

See Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

OR: How about the biblical method of atonement from the OT. Atonement is made for the entire nation but only applied to those who humble themselves.

Atonement was made for all, but only many are brought to glory, as only many (and not all) believe the gospel.

The new testament verifies that Jesus did die for all, including the false prophets:

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[brightfame52]

OR: How about the biblical method of atonement from the OT. Atonement is made for the entire nation but only applied to those who humble themselves.

Atonement was made for all, but only many are brought to glory, as only many (and not all) believe the gospel.

The new testament verifies that Jesus did die for all, including the false prophets:

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Do you understand the OP ?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So what are you saying? That Christ died only for the elect? That's effectively true, but not actually true. Christ died for all men, but only his elect take heed that they might be saved. For whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.

 

[brightfame52]

@ChristRoseFromTheDead

So what are you saying?That Christ died only for the elect?

Yes and I will be explaining why that is true !

 

[studier]

The writer of Hebrews wrote Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now honestly, did the writer write here that Christ tasted death for all mankind without exception here ? Nope he did not. In the original man isnt in the verse:

τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

Man was added by the translators. The word pas can refer to all the whole, the sum total of all the group intended. Context is important n determining the group that the writer has in mind. Lets look at the very next verse 10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Bingo, its the many sons that e suffered and died for, or tasted death for, The word many polys:

many, much, large, many, numerous, great

He tasted death for many Sons, a great number of them, everyone of them. This is important,, because later in the same epistle the writer uses the adjective many again to denote who He tasted death for Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

See to taste death back in Heb 2:9 is the exact same thing as " to bear the sins of many;" again, the many Sons of vs 10, everyone of the sons is who He tasted death for, not all of mankind without exception.

See Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

παντὸς is a masculine singular adjective. "Every [man]" is a legitimate translation. It might even trend into all [mankind] but I wouldn't push it there. It could also be neuter singular which could make us look at other parts of the Text that seem to tie His death into resolving the issue for everything - i.e. the entire creation.

Every man is the set. The many sons in 2:10 is the subset. From every man come the many sons.

Heb9:28 doesn't negate 2:9. Many [men] and every [man] are not mutually exclusive, while many sons who are being brought/led to glory is exclusive. He died for all/every including the many.

 

[brightfame52]

παντὸς is a masculine singular adjective. "Every [man]" is a legitimate translation. It might even trend into all [mankind] but I wouldn't push it there. It could also be neuter singular which could make us look at other parts of the Text that seem to tie His death into resolving the issue for everything - i.e. the entire creation.

Every man is the set. The many sons in 2:10 is the subset. From every man come the many sons.

Heb9:28 doesn't negate 2:9. Many [men] and every [man] are not mutually exclusive, while many sons who are being brought/led to glory is exclusive. He died for all/every including the many.

Your interpretation has His taste of death ineffectual in saving all for whom He died.

 

[brightfame52]

OR: How about the biblical method of atonement from the OT. Atonement is made for the entire nation but only applied to those who humble themselves.

Atonement was made for all, but only many are brought to glory, as only many (and not all) believe the gospel.

The new testament verifies that Jesus did die for all, including the false prophets:

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Your interpretation has His taste of death ineffectual in saving all for whom He died.

 

[studier]

Your interpretation has His taste of death ineffectual in saving all for whom He died.

He died for every man. Only some accept His death on their behalf. They are the many sons. His death is effectual for all. It succeeded in its intended results. It provides salvation for every man who truly believes.

 

[brightfame52]

He died for every man. Only some accept His death on their behalf. They are the many sons. His death is effectual for all. It succeeded in its intended results. It provides salvation for every man who truly believes.

You have a very low regard for the saving efficacy of his Death.

 

[studier]

You have a very low regard for the saving efficacy of his Death.

I think your OP re: the language of Heb2:9-10 has been answered.

 

[John146]

@ChristRoseFromTheDead



Yes and I will be explaining why that is true !

And I'd bet you believe you're part of that elect group.

 

[John146]

You have a very low regard for the saving efficacy of his Death.

And you have a high regard of your private interpretation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:6-8, 10-12, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[brightfame52]

I think your OP re: the language of Heb2:9-10 has been answered.

And I am responding to your answer.

 

[lrs68]

Great, another thread governed by personal agenda over absolute truth.

Yay!

 

[homwardbound]

The writer of Hebrews wrote Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now honestly, did the writer write here that Christ tasted death for all mankind without exception here ? Nope he did not. In the original man isnt in the verse:

τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

Man was added by the translators. The word pas can refer to all the whole, the sum total of all the group intended. Context is important n determining the group that the writer has in mind. Lets look at the very next verse 10

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Bingo, its the many sons that e suffered and died for, or tasted death for, The word many polys:

many, much, large, many, numerous, great

He tasted death for many Sons, a great number of them, everyone of them. This is important,, because later in the same epistle the writer uses the adjective many again to denote who He tasted death for Heb 9:28

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

See to taste death back in Heb 2:9 is the exact same thing as " to bear the sins of many;" again, the many Sons of vs 10, everyone of the sons is who He tasted death for, not all of mankind without exception.

See Isa 53:11

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

The only "Elect" I see is:
All are Elected to choose to believe God or not in risen Son for them to be new in God's Spirit and Truth thank you
John 4:23-24 that is what my Father seeks, sincerity in trust to his risen Son one is given new life of love and mercy for everyone to have and be in
Thanking Father forever, thanking all sin is now taken away by Son but "Unbelief" the done work for them, those doing it themselves, do not attain new life and each know this within themselves, at Least I know this within me. So, I turned to God to know this amazing love done for all through that cross in the risen Son
Today is the day to choose to either believe God in risen Son or not. that is all that is left after the cross, in his resurrection for us to be freed from under Law that people do to get, no flesh can, that is why God through Son did it once for us all, to belief it and be new in it too. It is now given by God Father in risen Son only, for me at least thanks
As the ones before the cross were looking forward to the cross, now after the cross have now received the promise of God, who in their physical life before the cross had not yet recieved it. So all they understood is: to work for it by Faith in it, not fully yet understood it then, today do. Today after the cross, that is all that is left is to believe, receive it and be new without having to. Therefore trust God whom we do not see physically anymore as the disciples state that in 2 Cor 5:16.
It is the risen Life that Father gives or not yet give, as Father sees each persons motive behind why they believe, it might be selfish and so he does not give it until one, anyone in trust repents to God personally, between God and them, then there new begins in love and mercy too, thank you
Love to Father first and then one responds in love to all, whether or not another one believes or not, matters not anymore, since all are given free choice to choose, thank you

 

[brightfame52]

@homwardbound

The only "Elect" I see is:
All are Elected to choose to believe God or not in risen Son for them to be new in God's Spirit and Truth thank you

This is error, see op

 

[Aaron56]

God created man with a body, a soul and a spirit.

The original intent of man (from God's perspective) was for mankind to be the vessels through whom God would bring His eternal economy into time and space into the earth. To this end, God created man to receive His Holy Spirit within himself. When man receives the Holy Spirit within himself, the spirit of man is reconstituted back into the purview of the One Holy Spirit. This "life in the Spirit" does not end because the Spirit of God is eternal. God's motivation for this is love.

This is the baseline standard and expectation for all men was this: that they receive the Holy Spirit.

The first Adam, however, brought sin into the whole race of mankind. By Adam's sin, the body and soul were elevated above the spirit that made Adam (and all mankind) "living beings".

Therefore...

Man is permitted to resist the Holy Spirit (God) and live by the means of his own will and desires. This is the life of the soul that is informed by the body. So, instead of being informed by the Spirit of God for direction and life, man may remain beholden to fulfill the needs of the body by means the man may decide for himself. This is "life in the flesh". Because the flesh dies, life in the flesh also ends. Life in the flesh is not eternal.

If a man does not resist God by exerting his soul he can then receive God by the spirit that is in himself. The reason there is no place for the man to brag about this occurrence is because the thing in the man that can receive God's Holy Spirit was given to the man by God.

This is the gist of the matter.