Survival/Preppers

[Lynx]

That shelter could have used a place to poop too...

 

[MaryM]

One point. Generally speaking, why do people mock Preppers? In my view anyone who is thinking and preparing is very wise and practical. We live in an increasingly dangerous unstable world.

 

[GaryA]

Generally speaking, why do people mock Preppers?

Some people associate 'preppers' with 'conspiracy theorists'.

 

[MaryM]

Some people associate 'preppers' with 'conspiracy theorists'.

That must be part of it.

 

[MaryM]

They beat you out of toilet paper at the local store eh?
We were in the same shape. I didn't even know it was a thing until I went to get some (because we were out) and that was when I found out.

It got close for us but eventually I got a pack of cheap stuff that we survived on until I could get the normal Charmin.

I don't know how you survived! Lol!
I prefer double quilted Andrex and life without it is almost unthinksble. .

 

[Lynx]

Some people associate 'preppers' with 'conspiracy theorists'.

It's kind of like the difference between geeks and nerds. Some people who don't fit in either category think they are synonymous.

"What do they call people who care about the difference between the two?"

"I believe dork is the preferred nomenclature."

 

[MaryM]

Can I ask a question, which may sound rather silly I suppose, to any serious Preppers. What would be your basic guidance, the most important few things to prioritise if a critical situation is suspected to happen soon? Let's say up to 6 crucial steps to take that could make a huge difference.
This I ask as a UK resident, retired senior citizen. We have no guns here of course so how do we protect ourselves?
I would assume these steps:
Stock up drinking water, food especially long life, fill up fuel, obtain as much cash as possible from our accounts.
What else?

 

[JohnDB]

Can I ask a question, which may sound rather silly I suppose, to any serious Preppers. What would be your basic guidance, the most important few things to prioritise if a critical situation is suspected to happen soon? Let's say up to 6 crucial steps to take that could make a huge difference.
This I ask as a UK resident, retired senior citizen. We have no guns here of course so how do we protect ourselves?
I would assume these steps:
Stock up drinking water, food especially long life, fill up fuel, obtain as much cash as possible from our accounts.
What else?

You have to be able to be mobile and hide from others who want to take your supplies.
Cash is worthless. Barter/trade is the ONLY thing that will work.

Usually alcohol is useful when bartering. You trade pints of it for other supplies you want.

You will want traveling clothes and footwear....lightweight, calorie dense foods that require minimal preparation. Fuel that doesn't cause smoke. Food that doesn't have strong odors. Nuts are higher value than lettuce. Fish, cabbages and all varieties of onions all have strong odors when cooked....they bring anyone hungry into your vicinity by following their nose.
The best fight is the one you do not engage in. Fighting causes injuries....and desperate people will risk it. Risks must be mitigated. You don't go climbing and hiking along extremely Rocky terrain because the risk of twisting an ankle or breaking a leg or arm is high. (Medical services are not going to be available) So you also need to be proficient in first aide.

These are the things that happen when governments fail.

 

[MaryM]

You have to be able to be mobile and hide from others who want to take your supplies.
Cash is worthless. Barter/trade is the ONLY thing that will work.

Usually alcohol is useful when bartering. You trade pints of it for other supplies you want.

You will want traveling clothes and footwear....lightweight, calorie dense foods that require minimal preparation. Fuel that doesn't cause smoke. Food that doesn't have strong odors. Nuts are higher value than lettuce. Fish, cabbages and all varieties of onions all have strong odors when cooked....they bring anyone hungry into your vicinity by following their nose.
The best fight is the one you do not engage in. Fighting causes injuries....and desperate people will risk it. Risks must be mitigated. You don't go climbing and hiking along extremely Rocky terrain because the risk of twisting an ankle or breaking a leg or arm is high. (Medical services are not going to be available) So you also need to be proficient in first aide.

These are the things that happen when governments fail.

Very useful indeed, thankyou.
You say cash is worthless - however, at first it will be surely of value if credit cards are knocked out if cyber attacks mean banking fails? So at least some cash is vital as everyone will empty the banks. Converting cash quickly to food and fuel is practical?
Yes, bartering is likely after a while as modern life fails. A good way to avoid trouble is to be ready to offer useful items fairly. Absolutely violence must be avoided as no way could I fight. But what weapons could be used in self defence? Being totally vulnerable is of no use!
Excellent suggestion about avoiding cooking smells, it is best to stay low profile.

What about safety in numbers? Should trusted friends and family live in tight groups under one roof? Say your parents? Any family member who lives alone? Maybe pool resources.

 

[JohnDB]

Very useful indeed, thankyou.
You say cash is worthless - however, at first it will be surely of value if credit cards are knocked out if cyber attacks mean banking fails? So at least some cash is vital as everyone will empty the banks. Converting cash quickly to food and fuel is practical?
Yes, bartering is likely after a while as modern life fails. A good way to avoid trouble is to be ready to offer useful items fairly. Absolutely violence must be avoided as no way could I fight. But what weapons could be used in self defence? Being totally vulnerable is of no use!
Excellent suggestion about avoiding cooking smells, it is best to stay low profile.

What about safety in numbers? Should trusted friends and family live in tight groups under one roof? Say your parents? Any family member who lives alone? Maybe pool resources.

Yes....but use extreme prudence. Every family has a black sheep that will sell everyone out for their own selfish desires and some idiot family member who thinks that they should be included despite their selfish behavior.

There is safety in numbers...but be very cautious with them. They can turn in a heartbeat. Armed guards have regularly turned on those they are supposed to protect. Especially in lawless environments. You have to have some skill or experience or something of value to offer others outside of goods. For example I'm a commercial and industrial electrician. I make things work safely so people don't get lit up. I'm no good to anyone if I'm dead. I know how to generate sufficient electricity to power a small city with very limited resources.

Anything can be a weapon in the right hands and deadly when used in a proper manner.

Granted firearms are not allowed in the UK but does that include pellet guns? (Operate on compressed air) They have some that are quite handy enough to take down a moose. Then there's crossbows. Good for one or some two shots.
Then there's slingshot. Some of these are just as deadly and accurate as a crossbow. (Darts in them can be quite deadly) basically they are a rubber band powered crossbow. 600-700fps is all you need to kill or injure. These are not concealed well but if YOU are concealed and looking for self protection....they might suffice.

 

[MaryM]

Here is a question which might be silly. When and for what reason would anyone leave their home? Except of course if it was destroyed.
Surely your house is your most secure place.

When reading the novel I mentioned, it seems huge numbers of people are fleeing the cities very soon after terrorists knock out communication, air and railway systems. So the major roads are full of traffic. Why would people risk the greater dangers of the unknown by fleeing all they know?

 

[JohnDB]

Here is a question which might be silly. When and for what reason would anyone leave their home? Except of course if it was destroyed.
Surely your house is your most secure place.

When reading the novel I mentioned, it seems huge numbers of people are fleeing the cities very soon after terrorists knock out communication, air and railway systems. So the major roads are full of traffic. Why would people risk the greater dangers of the unknown by fleeing all they know?

Because most of the world lives in large cities....around 80% of the population. They are targets for invading forces. Also food production doesn't happen inside cities...processing and warehousing of foods happens in the suburbs. And cities need regular supplies of food and water. When the power goes then all fresh water, food, and sewer is gone.

So what ever shrinking supplies of fresh water and food that exists are going to become targets of those without any. Regardless of right or wrong....people will justify themselves into taking what you have by any means necessary. Scared, hungry/thirsty and desperate people who once were your neighbors are now potentially perpetrators of the worst things possible to you and your loved ones living with you.

Things are actually rather Rosie when you are well fed and not completely dehydrated....you ponder and desire toys and new things to hold your interests like hobbies. But when water and food are gone...your justifications for stealing and harming others so you can take their water and food seem so plausible that you commit them.

I know that this sounds horrible to say...because many people you know desire to be good and kind and generous.
People also panic....for doing essentially nothing more dangerous than walking and breathing, people who are panicking will attack you because even though you have done nothing to give anyone pause they will imagine danger and attack you.

So....to avoid having to fight on a daily or even hourly basis and get a good night's sleep....you get away from people.

Personally I happen to think that you are right.....wait until the people rushing out of the cities slows or stops and then leave. This of course requires provisioning. Water, food, and disposal of human waste and garbage developed that attracts no one. (Odors are an attractant)

 

[Lynx]

Because most of the world lives in large cities....around 80% of the population.

Hmm?

A quick Google turns up something quite different.

 

[MaryM]

Because most of the world lives in large cities....around 80% of the population. They are targets for invading forces. Also food production doesn't happen inside cities...processing and warehousing of foods happens in the suburbs. And cities need regular supplies of food and water. When the power goes then all fresh water, food, and sewer is gone.

So what ever shrinking supplies of fresh water and food that exists are going to become targets of those without any. Regardless of right or wrong....people will justify themselves into taking what you have by any means necessary. Scared, hungry/thirsty and desperate people who once were your neighbors are now potentially perpetrators of the worst things possible to you and your loved ones living with you.

Things are actually rather Rosie when you are well fed and not completely dehydrated....you ponder and desire toys and new things to hold your interests like hobbies. But when water and food are gone...your justifications for stealing and harming others so you can take their water and food seem so plausible that you commit them.

I know that this sounds horrible to say...because many people you know desire to be good and kind and generous.
People also panic....for doing essentially nothing more dangerous than walking and breathing, people who are panicking will attack you because even though you have done nothing to give anyone pause they will imagine danger and attack you.

So....to avoid having to fight on a daily or even hourly basis and get a good night's sleep....you get away from people.

Personally I happen to think that you are right.....wait until the people rushing out of the cities slows or stops and then leave. This of course requires provisioning. Water, food, and disposal of human waste and garbage developed that attracts no one. (Odors are an attractant)

You are SO right. I saw enough even during the covid crisis. I long ago lost all faith in people and I know one cannot afford to be open and thus vulnerable.

However, as a survival basis, surely by leaving your home and possessions without a concrete destination you make yourself far more vulnerable?
Better to quietly stay put unless it is too dangerous and await authorities to help? Barricade your home, ration supplies immediately, supplement by short trips out with vigilance. Don't follow the panicking hordes. I would not leave my home, I couldn't possibly survive.

 

[Lynx]

You are SO right. I saw enough even during the covid crisis. I long ago lost all faith in people and I know one cannot afford to be open and thus vulnerable.

However, as a survival basis, surely by leaving your home and possessions without a concrete destination you make yourself far more vulnerable?
Better to quietly stay put unless it is too dangerous and await authorities to help? Barricade your home, ration supplies immediately, supplement by short trips out with vigilance. Don't follow the panicking hordes. I would not leave my home, I couldn't possibly survive.

If you need a concrete destination you could always come down here to West tennessee. We got plenty of room, lots of water and we can always open another jar of green beans or tomatoes.

 

[GaryA]

Better to quietly stay put unless it is too dangerous and await authorities to help?

Generally speaking, in the Survival/Preppers scenario that this thread is about, the first thing you should assume is that there will be no 'authorities' to help - OR - possibly [even] - that the 'authorities' will be[come] your enemy...

Whether the 'authorities' are friend or foe will have to be very carefully discerned.

 

[JohnDB]

Generally speaking, in the Survival/Preppers scenario that this thread is about, the first thing you should assume is that there will be no 'authorities' to help - OR - possibly [even] - that the 'authorities' will be[come] your enemy...

Whether the 'authorities' are friend or foe will have to be very carefully discerned.

When New Orleans was hit by Katrina (hurricane) and flooded out....how many of the "first responders" (police, ambulance staff, firefighters, and etc) did we see not only abandon their jobs but take part in looting and leaving nursing home residents and hospitals to their fate.

In Russia when the USSR collapsed the police became the Russian mafia...committing every horrible crime possible until they died.

Those we expect to come to our rescue won't come at all and possibly if they do its not for noble reasons.

Here in the US we do have the National Guard....controlled by the Govenor and state legislatures. Those who actually report for duty tend to be OK...not always but generally speaking they tend to be better than city or county staff.

Red Cross? No photo op and they aren't going to show up.
Salvation Army will show up (and stay until things have normalized) but they tend to be extremely disorganized for large scale catastrophe. They are awesome at small and medium sized catastrophic events....but they do get overwhelmed. (They are not allowed alcoholic beverages....so don't offer any and don't expect to be offered any)

Your local gun enthusiast might be in a panic but not appear to be....such is the nature of PTSD.


Surviving a complete disaster is more about luck and divine providence than planning and preparation . I wish I could say otherwise. Chaos is in charge during these events. And nothing goes according to plan during Chaos.

 

[GaryA]

If you need a concrete destination you could always come down here to West tennessee. We got plenty of room, lots of water and we can always open another jar of green beans or tomatoes.

Just be sure to feed her well - let her take a good hot shower - and give her a comfortable bed to sleep in - she will be very tired --- it is a long swim from the UK...

 

[MaryM]

Generally speaking, in the Survival/Preppers scenario that this thread is about, the first thing you should assume is that there will be no 'authorities' to help - OR - possibly [even] - that the 'authorities' will be[come] your enemy...

Whether the 'authorities' are friend or foe will have to be very carefully discerned.

Now that I disagree with. The human race cannot survive without leadership. Those in authority will do all they can otherwise life will be meaningless. To that hope I will cling, while helping myself as I can, because without hope there is nothing.

 

[MaryM]

When New Orleans was hit by Katrina (hurricane) and flooded out....how many of the "first responders" (police, ambulance staff, firefighters, and etc) did we see not only abandon their jobs but take part in looting and leaving nursing home residents and hospitals to their fate.

In Russia when the USSR collapsed the police became the Russian mafia...committing every horrible crime possible until they died.

Those we expect to come to our rescue won't come at all and possibly if they do its not for noble reasons.

Here in the US we do have the National Guard....controlled by the Govenor and state legislatures. Those who actually report for duty tend to be OK...not always but generally speaking they tend to be better than city or county staff.

Red Cross? No photo op and they aren't going to show up.
Salvation Army will show up (and stay until things have normalized) but they tend to be extremely disorganized for large scale catastrophe. They are awesome at small and medium sized catastrophic events....but they do get overwhelmed. (They are not allowed alcoholic beverages....so don't offer any and don't expect to be offered any)

Your local gun enthusiast might be in a panic but not appear to be....such is the nature of PTSD.


Surviving a complete disaster is more about luck and divine providence than planning and preparation . I wish I could say otherwise. Chaos is in charge during these events. And nothing goes according to plan during Chaos.

Sadly, I must also agree. Yet I believe there are good people in every level who would do all they could. A real crisis brings out the best and worst. It is awful to contemplate.