Some thought about "Jews"
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All who reject Jesus as the promised Messiah will spend eternity in Hell.
I'm not arguing how Jews get saved now. The fact that they are sealed means they are NT saints. They are also Jews. And it was through the ministry of Jews that the gospel came to the world in the 1st century.
The remnant of the Jews in other words the original church who converted to Christianity ….
“The fact that they are sealed means they are NT saints. “
How did you reach this conclusion ?
Lol yea the first believers in Jesus were Jews that repented and believed the gospel …converting to Christianity
Then that remnant of Israel that believed began preaching the gospel to everyone. Most of the Jews rejected Jesus. But a remnant of them accepted him and were sent out preaching the gospel to both Jew and gentile
“And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
many would fall but a remnant would be sent out preaching the gospel )
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.”
Isaiah 8:14-16, 18 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ( Jew or gentile ) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
…And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.”
Mark 16:15-18, 20
Sure I was saying that earlier but also it’s the ones he promised to raise to life when he came from the Old Testament they also are the remnant . It’s really not worth arguing lol it’s all laid out in the ot prophets the nt is always coming from them
Christian’s aren’t identified as the tribes of Israel the law was thier covenant
“These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.”
Deuteronomy 29:1 KJV
That had to be fulfilled forst the tribes of Israel’s covenant with God the remnant is of that group the first disciples are of that group thier the last generation born under Moses law.
Christians are identified in the group shouting salvstion and praising the lamb
The first group isn’t singing and shouting this song about the lamb because they are of the old covenant made with the tribes of Israel tbose God always promised they would sleep and then he would raise them up when he came they are those of Israel’s tribes appearing in the kingdom before the gentiles .
but yes the first disciples before he died and rose they are part of that group actually they will judge all the tribes of Israel being the last and chosen apostles of the Jews
“And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
Matthew 19:28
there are many God promised to save in the ot brother you should read the ot prophets more it makes the New Testament make sense because that’s where it’s coming from
The ot were preaching Jesus also brother a lot of people don’t realize that but they were preaching him before he came and now we hear of him after
“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
Acts 26:22-23 KJV
Hell isn’t eternal
“and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
Revelation 20:13-14 KJV
the lake of fire will end everything cast into it until it is no more
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. ( hell would cause sorrow and pain and tears and suffering the things of this fallen world )
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”
Revelation 21:1, 4-5 KJV
“I'm not arguing how Jews get saved now. “
“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:27-29 KJV
it doesn’t matter how we identify a Jew or gentile or some other term we are all saved the same way. The remnant is about what he prophecies to israel regarding the end of thier covenant in 70 ad
christians don’t have a remnant the remnant is of the tribes of Israel who had thier own covenant that had to be finished the remnant has an actual doctrine in the ot.
There was often only a remnant of those who truly trusted in God in Israel. This was certainly true in the 1st century. But there were also times when large numbers of Israelites were saved.
You have some problems with your statements. God fulfilled the 1st Covenant when Jesus came to earth as the Messiah. Most of the Jews rejected Him as such. To reject Jesus is to reject Gods fulfillment of the 1st Covenant. F.Y.I. My Grandmothers maiden name is Soloman. Thus she and I are direct descendants of the Tribe of Solomon. However, I am a Christian. I believer in and follower of Jesus the Christ.
John, Chapter 10:
30) I and my Father are one.
John, Chapter 14:
6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
8) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Mark, Chapter 16:
15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Romans, Chapter 9:
25) As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26) And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27) Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
All who die in unbelief will not be saved. There will be no magical salvation for those Jews who died denying Jesus is the promised Messiah and Savior of the world. If there were, then God would not be a Just God.
Chapter 3:
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
The 1st Covenant was the Law of Moses. The New Covenant is the Law of faith!
Hebrews, Chapter 8:
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Sadly, all peoples who die in unbelief and denial of Jesus will be damned for eternity. This includes Jews.
THE STATUS OF JEWS PER JESUS
MT 7:21: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
MT 8:11: I say to you that many will come from the east and the west and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
MT 10:32: Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven, but whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
MT 11:6&13-14: Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me… For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
MT 13:14-15: This people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and I would heal them.
MT 21:43: I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
MT 23:37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
MT 28:18-19a: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations…
JN 6:40: My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
JN 8:42, 44&56: If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own, but he sent me… You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him… Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.
JN 10:16: I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
JN 12:48a & 49b: There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words… for the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
JN 16:1-2: All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. They will put you out of the synagogue. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.
MT 7:21: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
MT 8:11: I say to you that many will come from the east and the west and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
MT 10:32: Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven, but whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.
MT 11:6&13-14: Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me… For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
MT 13:14-15: This people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and I would heal them.
MT 21:43: I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
MT 23:37: O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you! How often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
MT 28:18-19a: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations…
JN 6:40: My Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
JN 8:42, 44&56: If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own, but he sent me… You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him… Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.
JN 10:16: I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
JN 12:48a & 49b: There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words… for the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
JN 16:1-2: All this I have told you so that you will not go astray. They will put you out of the synagogue. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.
I’m not sure what you mean by that term but I’m assuming it’s the belief that hell isn’t permanent ? And that even hell will be destroyed in the lake of fire ? I’m just saying
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:13-15 KJV
“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9
i know there are scriptures for both views brother like this one
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
Revelation 14:9-11
I know there is an argument for both ideas either eternal punishment or the second death being the death of the spirit as the first death is appointed to all men’s flesh the second is of thier spiritual body.
i bekieve ( I’m not my ones teacher or a prophet or anything special just an old guy in a bible discussion forum offering my own beliefs according to scriptures I have myself seen ) but my belief when I came here was that hell was forever and people suffered and cried and were tormented for all eternity that was my position when I first came here
i had some intense discussions with a few members but it wasn’t like it is here now days . we were comparing our ideas and scripture to support those ideas and working towards a common understanding
and afterwards I considered everything that was said by myself and then and all the many many scriptures we dug up on the matter and they won me over and now I don’t believe he’ll and suffering and torment are forever
i look at it more like when a tree doesn’t bear fruit you do chop it down and remove it and burn it up but it doesn’t suffer and burn forever it burns up and is gone
what I’m saying is I can’t find a purpose for eternal suffering in a world without suffering and pain . I believe those are part of this creation and the lake of fire is the end of it
But to stress this point , I’m no one official or anything it’s just what I’m have come to believe after a great discussion with other believers who also see things and have ideas to consider
“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
Romans 2:5-11 KJV
“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we ( Jews ) shall be saved, even as they.”( gentiles )
Acts 15:7, 9-11 KJV
“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:11-22 KJV
Jew and gentile is irrelevant
Honestly, I pray for this to be true …. I seriously feel that an eternal punishment is too harsh, for my human brain to wrap around. . Even for the worst of human beings like Hitler.. however I believe this point of view is the minority among Christians scholars.
This is where you lose me, because the Bible teaches that there is NONE righteous no not one, no one obeys the law and that is the issue. If what you wrote is true, why bother spreading the Gospel?
The jews are living in open sin and defiance against God. They rejected the Son of God, and most are atheists, the so called Haredi jews are sucking on the private parts of a boy when they circumcise him, the talmud blasphemes against Jesus and spreads open hatred to gentiles teaching them gentiles have 0 value. They can break their vows and contracts with a satanic ritual which some of them do by waving a chicken around. I could continue the list but this suffices.
Yes. If they are outside of Christ.
It actually is speaking of the day of judgment as well. Jesus said shall He find faith on earth when He returns. Clearly its a minority.
I recommend listening to Steve Gregg teaching on the three views of hell. He also has a book (actually two, the second is a
reprise of the first with extra info added) but you can find the teaching via YT and also on his own site, thenarrowpath.com
Most people believe that hell is the final state of the condemned following the final judgment.
At the same time, many people cannot comprehend why God created hell for the unsaved.
Respected church fathers held a variety of views dating back to the early centuries of the church.
This book explains views on why hell exists: unending suffering, the annihilation of the unrepentant,
and the rehabilitation of the lost. Most Christians are unaware of the scriptural basis for each of
these positions. Why Hell? is meant to educate the interested reader without advocating for
any one point of view. The following are some of the book's features:
- Biblical vocabulary of hell and positions held throughout early Christian history
- Positive cases presented on three perspectives: traditionalist, conditionalist, and restorationist
- Critiques of each view
- Helpful charts at the back of the book that summarize and cross-examine the arguments for each view
all the data and then consider for themselves the consequences of three Christian perspectives on hell.
Conditional immortality (that is, life ever after is attained solely by grace through faith in the shed righteous
blood of Jesus Christ). I have mentioned SG (as above) to you before... just a reminder to check him out, for
although he does not hold to any one view per se, despite having for many many years believed the mainstream
version, he now knows that the mainstream view has less Scriptural evidence/verses than does conditional immortality.
yes brother im certainly not absolutely " right " its just what i myself have come to believe and also i hope so too doesnt seem gods nature in some way doesnt fit with the rest of his interactions and merciful relationship even at times wrath but it always ends at some point you know ?