Slavery, a Cultural, not Biblical Sin

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presidente

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May 29, 2013
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It seems like it is taken as a given by many Americans that owning slaves is a sin.

I had a conversation a few years ago with a man with a theology degree... not a pastor... and a law degree. He said something about slavery being a sin. I disagreed with him. Abraham and Isaac owned slaves and aren't called sinners for it. Philemon had love for the brethren, but he owned a slave, Onesimus. Paul was writing either to get Onesimus freed. But he does not condemn Philemon as a sinner for owning Onesimus. He does not urge him to repent. Paul tells slaves to obey their masters. Peter tells servants to submit to their masters, not only the good and considerate, but also the harsh ones.

The Old Testament regulates slavery. It does not forbid it. Israelites who went out to war against distant nations that would not take a peace treaty were expressly allowed to keep the virgin females as slaves, and they could also marry these slaves. Male Hebrew slaves were to be set free after seven years.

To add a bit of nuance, when Israelites were sinning in the time of Ezra by charging their brethren 1% interest (I'm assuming simple interest), and then on top of that taking debtors who did not pay as slaves, Ezra rebuked them for doing so. They had spent money to redeem fellow Israelites already. Charging interest to fellow Israelites was the actual sin in the law of Moses, not owning slaves.

Of course if you point this out in America and you aren't Black, you might get labelled a racist.

The Hebrew system of slavery was different from the transatlantic slave trade. There were some wicked practices like shackling people on the boat until many of them died, leaving other slaves in there with the stench of death. Also, kidnapping was a death penalty crime if the perpetrator were caught in the act. But obtaining slaves in war did not (necessarily) fit into this category. It seems likely transatlantic slaves were generally captured prior to being transported.

In some ways, Greek slavery may have been more humane. Romans might have been better in treatment than Transatlantic, potentially, if the slave did not end up in a brothel.

I notice that theological arguments from abolitionists in the 1800s were a bit looser theologically, based on loving one's brother. I haven't read that deeply. Southern arguments for slavery were a bit tighter on biblicist exegesis. For students of revival in the colonial era. George Whitfield, having seen the relative prosperity of southern colonies up north suggested that the new Georgia colony might be more prosperous if it had slaves, and slavery might not be as bad for those who were already accustomed to it.

While I appreciate living in a legal system without slavery (if we had it, who knows if you wouldn't be one), I kind of wonder if the trajectory of some of the liberal denominations up north, such as some of those those that grew out of the churches of the Pilgrims, Puritans, and Separatists, tending away from tight exegesis to broader principles on this contributed to the general trend. Then you end up with people who think that the Bible is written for and in a morally deficient culture, but God's overall arching theme was to lead people toward modern liberal democratic ideals, like voting, universal suffrage, feminism, LGBT rights, etc. And then there are those who think that God has changed and become more enlightened and 'liberal' over time (my words for the concept.)
 
It seems like it is taken as a given by many Americans that owning slaves is a sin.

I had a conversation a few years ago with a man with a theology degree... not a pastor... and a law degree. He said something about slavery being a sin. I disagreed with him. Abraham and Isaac owned slaves and aren't called sinners for it. Philemon had love for the brethren, but he owned a slave, Onesimus. Paul was writing either to get Onesimus freed. But he does not condemn Philemon as a sinner for owning Onesimus. He does not urge him to repent. Paul tells slaves to obey their masters. Peter tells servants to submit to their masters, not only the good and considerate, but also the harsh ones.

The Old Testament regulates slavery. It does not forbid it. Israelites who went out to war against distant nations that would not take a peace treaty were expressly allowed to keep the virgin females as slaves, and they could also marry these slaves. Male Hebrew slaves were to be set free after seven years.

To add a bit of nuance, when Israelites were sinning in the time of Ezra by charging their brethren 1% interest (I'm assuming simple interest), and then on top of that taking debtors who did not pay as slaves, Ezra rebuked them for doing so. They had spent money to redeem fellow Israelites already. Charging interest to fellow Israelites was the actual sin in the law of Moses, not owning slaves.

Of course if you point this out in America and you aren't Black, you might get labelled a racist.

The Hebrew system of slavery was different from the transatlantic slave trade. There were some wicked practices like shackling people on the boat until many of them died, leaving other slaves in there with the stench of death. Also, kidnapping was a death penalty crime if the perpetrator were caught in the act. But obtaining slaves in war did not (necessarily) fit into this category. It seems likely transatlantic slaves were generally captured prior to being transported.

In some ways, Greek slavery may have been more humane. Romans might have been better in treatment than Transatlantic, potentially, if the slave did not end up in a brothel.

I notice that theological arguments from abolitionists in the 1800s were a bit looser theologically, based on loving one's brother. I haven't read that deeply. Southern arguments for slavery were a bit tighter on biblicist exegesis. For students of revival in the colonial era. George Whitfield, having seen the relative prosperity of southern colonies up north suggested that the new Georgia colony might be more prosperous if it had slaves, and slavery might not be as bad for those who were already accustomed to it.

While I appreciate living in a legal system without slavery (if we had it, who knows if you wouldn't be one), I kind of wonder if the trajectory of some of the liberal denominations up north, such as some of those those that grew out of the churches of the Pilgrims, Puritans, and Separatists, tending away from tight exegesis to broader principles on this contributed to the general trend. Then you end up with people who think that the Bible is written for and in a morally deficient culture, but God's overall arching theme was to lead people toward modern liberal democratic ideals, like voting, universal suffrage, feminism, LGBT rights, etc. And then there are those who think that God has changed and become more enlightened and 'liberal' over time (my words for the concept.)
Slavery in any culture is unfortunate at best and genocidal at worst. For those who chose it, they likely did so out of desperation. In most cases, the slave had little say in the matter; they were captured in war, kidnapped, or born into it. All three played into the American slavery system, as the African tribes conquered, kidnapped, and sold each other out to slavers, while the American owners did not emancipate the children of slaves. While the American system was certainly bad, the Arab (Moslem) slave trade was far worse.

As you have noted, the Bible neither explicitly condones nor condemns slavery. Instead it teaches us not to regard the economic station of another person and where possible to work for the freedom of others, both physical and spiritual.
 
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Would you want to be an employee? No? Then hiring employees would be sinful.

Would you want to be a child? No? Then having children would be sinful.

In other words, that does not follow.

Your examples don't follow. Jesus was talking about moral behavior towards others. Hiring employees and having children are not moral behavior; they're just circumstances of life. How you treat them, however, is moral/immoral behavior.
 
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Your examples don't follow. Jesus was talking about moral behavior towards others. Hiring employees and having children are not moral behavior; they're just circumstances of life. How you treat them, however, is moral/immoral behavior.
Now apply that same logic to slavery.
 
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A lot of slavery was the distribution of survivors from a side that lost a war. When the world was run on muscle power, slavery had more value. Not all slavery was plantation slavery. The physical abuse of slaves did happen, but one should consider that the slave owner who abuses his slave cut his own throat.

Serfdom was ending in Europe as Christianity began to decrease and the economic benefits to land owners to only pay for hours worked was seen as more advantageous than paying to support old people and children.
 
Enslaving someone against their will is robbing that person of their freedom. In other words, it's the worst sort of theft.
Idolatry is the worst sort of theft, while murder and adultery would rate second and third.

You are not following up on your line of reasoning, but instead shifting the topic, trying to make a moral issue of something the Bible simply does not condemn.
 
Idolatry is the worst sort of theft, while murder and adultery would rate second and third.

You are not following up on your line of reasoning, but instead shifting the topic, trying to make a moral issue of something the Bible simply does not condemn.

God didn't condemn Israel for demanding a king either, but he did consider it sin and their rejection of him ruling over them. He did warn them of the consequences of their rebellion, though. God appears to have a permissive will when it comes to certain situations. The bible doesn't condemn abortion either, but I think we can agree it is extremely evil.
 
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God didn't condemn Israel for demanding a king either, but he did consider it sin and their rejection of him ruling over them. He did warn them of the consequences of their rebellion, though. God appears to have a permissive will when it comes to certain situations. The bible doesn't condemn abortion either, but I think we can agree it is extremely evil.
He condemned the sin of demanding a king.

Abortion is murder. Scripture clearly condemns murder.
 
Would you want to be a slave? If not then you enslaving someone would be sinful.
Some Israelites were happy to be slaves. Beats starving to death. Slaves were to be released after 10 years, if my memory is correct. There was also the principle of the bond slave, one who was willingly bound to the master.

Part of problem with more modern slavery is the terrible abuse. George Whitefield promoted slavery, but condemned the owners for the way they treated the slaves. It's not so often taught, but white people were also sold in slavery, mostly those captured by pirates based in North Africa.

I think the real injustice these days is expecting people to work for less than a living wage. Unpaid internship is even more disgraceful. Be assured that God sees and the unjust who get rich at the expense of their workers will not escape judgement.

And no, I would not like to be a slave and I do not see a case for allowing slavery now.
 
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It seems like it is taken as a given by many Americans that owning slaves is a sin.

I had a conversation a few years ago with a man with a theology degree... not a pastor... and a law degree. He said something about slavery being a sin. I disagreed with him. Abraham and Isaac owned slaves and aren't called sinners for it. Philemon had love for the brethren, but he owned a slave, Onesimus. Paul was writing either to get Onesimus freed. But he does not condemn Philemon as a sinner for owning Onesimus. He does not urge him to repent. Paul tells slaves to obey their masters. Peter tells servants to submit to their masters, not only the good and considerate, but also the harsh ones.

The Old Testament regulates slavery. It does not forbid it. Israelites who went out to war against distant nations that would not take a peace treaty were expressly allowed to keep the virgin females as slaves, and they could also marry these slaves. Male Hebrew slaves were to be set free after seven years.

To add a bit of nuance, when Israelites were sinning in the time of Ezra by charging their brethren 1% interest (I'm assuming simple interest), and then on top of that taking debtors who did not pay as slaves, Ezra rebuked them for doing so. They had spent money to redeem fellow Israelites already. Charging interest to fellow Israelites was the actual sin in the law of Moses, not owning slaves.

Of course if you point this out in America and you aren't Black, you might get labelled a racist.

The Hebrew system of slavery was different from the transatlantic slave trade. There were some wicked practices like shackling people on the boat until many of them died, leaving other slaves in there with the stench of death. Also, kidnapping was a death penalty crime if the perpetrator were caught in the act. But obtaining slaves in war did not (necessarily) fit into this category. It seems likely transatlantic slaves were generally captured prior to being transported.

In some ways, Greek slavery may have been more humane. Romans might have been better in treatment than Transatlantic, potentially, if the slave did not end up in a brothel.

I notice that theological arguments from abolitionists in the 1800s were a bit looser theologically, based on loving one's brother. I haven't read that deeply. Southern arguments for slavery were a bit tighter on biblicist exegesis. For students of revival in the colonial era. George Whitfield, having seen the relative prosperity of southern colonies up north suggested that the new Georgia colony might be more prosperous if it had slaves, and slavery might not be as bad for those who were already accustomed to it.

While I appreciate living in a legal system without slavery (if we had it, who knows if you wouldn't be one), I kind of wonder if the trajectory of some of the liberal denominations up north, such as some of those those that grew out of the churches of the Pilgrims, Puritans, and Separatists, tending away from tight exegesis to broader principles on this contributed to the general trend. Then you end up with people who think that the Bible is written for and in a morally deficient culture, but God's overall arching theme was to lead people toward modern liberal democratic ideals, like voting, universal suffrage, feminism, LGBT rights, etc. And then there are those who think that God has changed and become more enlightened and 'liberal' over time (my words for the concept.)

Colossians 3:22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Are servants slaves? Aren't we all slaves? To earn a living, we have to work, unless excused legally from work or are retired!

Servants are freed slaves. I am a freed slave. Now a servant to God, not a man pleaser any longer. was and down that road only ended up in stress and a mess, with no rest for me anyways, thanks, I like the post
Hebrews 4:9-13
 
Enslaving someone against their will is robbing that person of their freedom. In other words, it's the worst sort of theft.

The slavery described in scripture isn't even close to what you're talking about. People in the OT treated their enemies better than modern man treats his friends!

Maybe? If we had a slave system like that, we wouldnt need the welfare system or food stamp system for society. They could hire on as ranch hands and live in the bunk house!. Room & Board, Bed & Found.

I'm building a barn and need help. You live in my neighborhood, come help is the same thing. But man is too evil for that. Build your own barn. And you, you will go work the brothel...all that crap perverted the whole system.
 
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The slavery described in scripture isn't even close to what you're talking about. People in the OT treated their enemies better than modern man treats his friends!

Maybe? If we had a slave system like that, we wouldnt need the welfare system or food stamp system for society. They could hire on as ranch hands and live in the bunk house!. Room & Board, Bed & Found.

I'm building a barn and need help. You live in my neighborhood, come help is the same thing. But man is too evil for that. Build your own barn. And you, you will go work the brothel...all that crap perverted the whole system.

I perceive, you have had some bad experiences. God bless you, as I see you are. Not easy to remain harmless as a dove once see truth in truth from God above, living on us Father and Son. Wanting us, me at least to understand to trust his lo ve and mercy to live through us, Luke 21:14-15 I am in process thanks form th at post reply
 
When does a human beings status change from just being a person , to being a slave ? What marks someone out as being a potential slave ? They r weak ? Homeless ? Penniless ? Intellectually inferior / uneducated ? Because someone appears to b deficient in some way ? Does that mean that we can take advantage of them ?
We must remember , God is real , alive , and knows all of our thoughts and words .
 
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When does a human beings status change from just being a person , to being a slave ? What marks someone out as being a potential slave ? They r weak ? Homeless ? Penniless ? Intellectually inferior / uneducated ? Because someone appears to b deficient in some way ? Does that mean that we can take advantage of them ?
We must remember , God is real , alive , and knows all of our thoughts and words .

I knew of a person, homeless. I would drive by that person every day, going to work or coming home from work. I noticed that person was content, and joyous, even though homeless.
So I stopped and asked that person, if they needed anything?
That person replied, no I have everything I need for life.
I replied what? Yep he said. I said I see you are homeless and in need.
The reply was, nope I am not homeless. My home with with Father and Son in Heaven that is my home.
I said yes, I agree, yet here you are on earth and in need are you not? He said no, I got God whether rich or poor, in sickness or health, I know God will not, does not ever forsake me, and has not
I want that I said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please??????????
Go to your own closet, lock out the world and pray, ask God

Guess what I received?
A Bank on Christ card. Only you go and get what I need in reality, not what the media implores and people get lost here in this world in
As Paul said. I am content in all things, rich or poor, matters not. Even in Jail he still rejoiced in God. The jail help wondered, who rejoices in adversities? Paul
So they decided to believe God also

It is a belief to God even whenever in adversities. Look at Jesus going to that cross for us, never having to go there for himself, he is perfect. A perfect walk he did for us to see and do that too, how????????????????????/I do nothing or say nothing without Father's lead
Who are we given now, is it Father? Yes, read that in John 20, when Jesus said to Mary I go to my Father, now your Father. Is that only meant for her? I see not!
Love and mercy to all. From God Father by Son. Who revealed the only way to walk in Father. Our turn to be new, remain new, accept and not reiect anymore, and see the flow of God flow through us too. Amazing Love all in God's win for us by Son to us. No more having to think about it over and over as religion teaches people to do that and see it their way not the world's. When Earth Church is of this world Hebrews 8:1-4. Not of Heaven, which we are called to be in and of right now, thanks