Singlehood and Chastity

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Two become one flesh is children, not sex.

So the two aren't one until they have a child?? I don't think so.

 

[HeIsHere]

So the two aren't one until they have a child?? I don't think so.

That is the correct understanding of scripture, when people get divorced are they still one?

One flesh is the combined DNA of two people, God knew what He was talking about, people's romantic interpretations, not so much.

 

[Snackersmom]

That is the correct understanding of scripture, when people get divorced are they still one?

One flesh is the combined DNA of two people, God knew what He was talking about, people's romantic interpretations, not so much.

So if they marry and find they are unable to have children, Ephesians 5:31 does not apply?

 

[Magenta]

So if they marry and find they are unable to have children, Ephesians 5:31 does not apply?

Exactly. Heishere is wrong. 1 Corinthians 6 verse 16 says

Or don’t you know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

 

[HeIsHere]

So if they marry and find they are unable to have children, Ephesians 5:31 does not apply?

I will go with how the term was understood in the original culture to whom it was spoken..... as a reference to the offspring created by the both of them, since it obvious that a husband and wife do not become a single being.

 

[Magenta]

I will go with how the term was understood in the original culture to whom it was spoken..... as a reference to the offspring created by the both of them, since it obvious that a husband and wife do not become a single being.

Because you know better than Paul what was meant, and every John has children with their hookers. .

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I will go with how the term was understood in the original culture to whom it was spoken..... as a reference to the offspring created by the both of them, since it obvious that a husband and wife do not become a single being.

But they do become a single being, that is why sex is sacred and should be only with the context of marriage. Anything outside of that is sin.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Exactly. Heishere is wrong. 1 Corinthians 6 verse 16 says

Or don’t you know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”

There you go, I even forgot that Scripture was there. Thanks for adding it.

 

[Snackersmom]

I will go with how the term was understood in the original culture to whom it was spoken..... as a reference to the offspring created by the both of them, since it obvious that a husband and wife do not become a single being.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but Ephesians 5:28 and 5:29 seems to indicate it has nothing to do with children.... but moreso that a husband and wife are to care for and respect each other's bodies as if they were their own flesh. So I would assume that a Christian marriage without children or even without sex (due to injury, illness, whatever) would still produce a spiritual pairing that unites 2 as one.

However, I have never been married so I would be curious to hear more from those who have, especially if their union has not produced children.

@ThereRoseaLamb @tourist @Karlon

 

[Karlon]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but Ephesians 5:28 and 5:29 seems to indicate it has nothing to do with children.... but moreso that a husband and wife are to care for and respect each other's bodies as if they were their own flesh. So I would assume that a Christian marriage without children or even without sex (due to injury, illness, whatever) would still produce a spiritual pairing that unites 2 as one.

However, I have never been married so I would be curious to hear more from those who have, especially if their union has not produced children.

@ThereRoseaLamb @tourist @Karlon

i am married for over 8 years now. i entered matrimony late in life. i never had kids, never wanted them but also never thought of having them. my wife & i don't have any kids. she has 2. her 1st husband passed from many illnesses. husband & wife are 1 when married & when romance occurs the 1st time.

 

[HeIsHere]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but Ephesians 5:28 and 5:29 seems to indicate it has nothing to do with children.... but moreso that a husband and wife are to care for and respect each other's bodies as if they were their own flesh. So I would assume that a Christian marriage without children or even without sex (due to injury, illness, whatever) would still produce a spiritual pairing that unites 2 as one.

However, I have never been married so I would be curious to hear more from those who have, especially if their union has not produced children.

@ThereRoseaLamb @tourist @Karlon

It is all part of it and does not negate that "one flesh" as understood in the ancient culture of the time, as a reference to offspring, back then prior to birth control being with a prostitute could result in a child.
The phrase, "become one flesh" is not contained entirely nor solely within the parameters of marriage.

So yes while Paul is definitely defending the sanctity of marriage it is to protect the family that might be.
Anyway this is a minority opinion among scholars but I think given the culture of time I beleive they are correct.

 

[Snackersmom]

It is all part of it and does not negate that "one flesh" as understood in the ancient culture of the time, as a reference to offspring, back then prior to birth control being with a prostitute could result in a child.
The phrase, "become one flesh" is not contained entirely nor solely within the parameters of marriage.

So yes while Paul is definitely defending the sanctity of marriage it is to protect the family that might be.
Anyway this is a minority opinion among scholars but I think given the culture of time I beleive they are correct.

I don't think Paul was defending the sanctity of marriage purely to protect the children that could be produced from it; marriage alone is a holy union to be protected regardless of the possibility of offspring.

But I do see your point, if the phrase "one flesh" pertained only to marriage vows then 1 Corinthians 6:17 would not apply. Perhaps the vows produce a spiritual union, whereas a prostitute would only be a physical union? To be truly united I would think a spiritual union would be as much or even more important than the physical one.

But again, I have never been married, it's just something I wonder about.

 

[Snackersmom]

I don't think Paul was defending the sanctity of marriage purely to protect the children that could be produced from it; marriage alone is a holy union to be protected regardless of the possibility of offspring.

But I do see your point, if the phrase "one flesh" pertained only to marriage vows then 1 Corinthians 6:17 would not apply. Perhaps the vows produce a spiritual union, whereas a prostitute would only be a physical union? To be truly united I would think a spiritual union would be as much or even more important than the physical one.

But again, I have never been married, it's just something I wonder about.

Correction: I meant 1 Corinthians 6:16 not 6:17.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't think Paul was defending the sanctity of marriage purely to protect the children that could be produced from it; marriage alone is a holy union to be protected regardless of the possibility of offspring.

But I do see your point, if the phrase "one flesh" pertained only to marriage vows then 1 Corinthians 6:17 would not apply. Perhaps the vows produce a spiritual union, whereas a prostitute would only be a physical union? To be truly united I would think a spiritual union would be as much or even more important than the physical one.

But again, I have never been married, it's just something I wonder about.

I am not sure about the use of the word "purely" as surely children should always to be regarded as a blessing.

This is a modern day mindset regarding marriage and its pursuit for self-fulfillment I doubt it was viewed that way in the ancient Jewish culture. Paul is not talking about people who cannot have children because of age or medical problems.

Marriage vows are nice, but I doubt Adam And Eve stated any, and God stated they would become one flesh via their offspring.
Anyway all food for thought.

 

[Snackersmom]

I am not sure about the use of the word "purely" as surely children should always to be regarded as a blessing.

This is a modern day mindset regarding marriage and its pursuit for self-fulfillment I doubt it was viewed that way in the ancient Jewish culture. Paul is not talking about people who cannot have children because of age or medical problems.

Marriage vows are nice, but I doubt Adam And Eve stated any, and God stated they would become one flesh via their offspring.
Anyway all food for thought.

If you do not like my use of the word "purely", then "exclusively" works just as well. I was not implying that children are not a blessing. I love kids and devote a lot of time and resources to serving them in ministry.

I WAS implying that God values the marriage covenant in and of itself, and wants us to uphold the sanctity of it as a holy institution regardless of the offspring that may come as a result (please do not take my use of the word "regardless" to imply that I disregard children. I can assure you that is not the case! ).

And no, of course we are not to view marriage as a means of self-fulfillment, I'm not sure why you are reading that into what I said .

 

[HeIsHere]

If you do not like my use of the word "purely", then "exclusively" works just as well. I was not implying that children are not a blessing. I love kids and devote a lot of time and resources to serving them in ministry.

I WAS implying that God values the marriage covenant in and of itself, and wants us to uphold the sanctity of it as a holy institution regardless of the offspring that may come as a result (please do not take my use of the word "regardless" to imply that I disregard children. I can assure you that is not the case! ).

And no, of course we are not to view marriage as a means of self-fulfillment, I'm not sure why you are reading that into what I said .

I am speaking to the modern western view not you in particular or anyone on this board in particular

Most protestant churches have adopted modern and post modern view of marriage, with the advent of feminism and shifted away from the real role of marriage in society, however other orthodox churches and some protestant churches who never really adopted using "the pill" kept God's original intentions for marriage in place.

 

[Snackersmom]

I am speaking to the modern western view not you in particular or anyone on this board in particular

Most protestant churches have adopted modern and post modern view of marriage, with the advent of feminism and shifted away from the real role of marriage in society, however other orthodox churches and some protestant churches who never really adopted using "the pill" kept God's original intentions for marriage in place.

Alright. I definitely support ALL of God's intentions for His awesome invention called marriage, and I think I will leave it at that.

 

[Edith]

The opposite - the absence of fornication - is the correct-and-proper way that God intends. And, I am quite sure that God has no problem with that...

I agree

 

[Edith]

I find that quite often you seem to see things in a way other than what I meant.

It is not so much about "guaranteed sex" as it is about not neglecting your spouse.

It is mostly about the attitude of both husband and wife towards each other with regard to meeting the needs of the other.

I agree with you and would add that the problem in marriages is not always sex. Sex turn to be sour when other needs are not met.

Most times the financial needs of the family my silence the sex issues. sometimes children needing much care and this where I like the western because they would go on dates to keep the flow.
sex May be a bonding item but it may not always useful if other needs are not met.

this a view from outside so please forgive it is wrong

 

[Edith]

That is the correct understanding of scripture, when people get divorced are they still one?

One flesh is the combined DNA of two people, God knew what He was talking about, people's romantic interpretations, not so much.

I don't think so let's take the Hebrew bible to know if it is written so.