Since Faith is a Gift, is Suffering Also a Gift?
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That's fine if you think so, I just asked if you could provide Scripture you concluded this from:
Was there a time when He was disobedient? If not, why did He need to learn obedience? (just askin)
Just as the OP stated...
Philippians 1:29 KJVS
[29] For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Something 'given'.
This is often misunderstood. As a Man, Christ learned obedience to the Father by fully submitting to the will of the Father in all things. And when He suffered daily on earth without murmuring or complaining (which He did) then He was learning obedience through suffering. Christ suffered the assaults of Satan and His enemies daily. He was constantly under attack. But He accepted all of that as a part of His mission on earth.
Yes it can bring a person to a place to cry out for mercy in a living hope of being strengthened to do the will of our unseen God. That work can be seen being performed with the Son of man Jesus as he suffered unto death. saying; Not as I will but as you will .
We suffer with him as he strengthens us to finish the good work of salvation in us, The arrows of the evil one directed at him come toward us. With the shield of faith the power of God they fall to the ground.
We should remember Satan as a fallen messenger is not subject to salvation .The gospel remains foreign. He hates all flesh having no idea of what the Son of man Jesus was . His goal as a murderer from the beginning is to kill all who name the name Christ.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
They do not add to his sufferings. .His alone provides the power to believe. The work of Him and the father not seen. The same power that strengthens us to finish the good works of sufferings he does begin in us. Being yoked with Christ our burden is made lighter .Sometimes a light as air.
Well, we know he did not sin and yet the scripture is clear.....he was also dealt faith as a gift as we are yet without measure.....interesting concept!
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
I would think having the same spirit of faith as it is written. . not of his own self but of the father. It worked in Jesus' earthen body of death. It was a measure of one faith in respect to the witness of two (father and Son) .The golden measure not seen, faith.
Faith, the unseen to faith. Or face to face. . The revealed knowledge of God not seen . Him revealing the unseen theophany as a vison as shadow of the temporal .The Son of man our high priest continually without mother or father beginning of Spirit life or end thereof .He provided the one time outward demonstration of a invisible God. The gospel
Hello @crossnote, the Bible tells us that saving faith is a "gift" from God .. Ephesians 2:8. I'm pretty sure that the same is not true of "suffering", and yet, whenever God allows His saints to suffer through something in this life, He always intends it for our good, and as a blessing to us, not to harm us. So I guess suffering could be considered a type of "gift" to us from God .. Romans 8:28.
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - as Spurgeon once said,
"We know that God causes all things to work together
for good to those who love God, to those who are
the called according to His purpose."
Romans 8:28
Hebrews 12
10 God disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness.
11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - as Spurgeon once said,
"We know that God causes all things to work together
for good to those who love God, to those who are
the called according to His purpose."
Romans 8:28
Almost missed this great quote, thinking it was part of your signature. Spurgeon sure had some jewels.
I would say, according to Phil 1:29 we should be referring to ... (1) saving faith (which is not a gift given to unbelievers),
It's a tricky matter, as we were once all unbelievers.
Yes. And the Gospel was given to unbelievers so that they would believe (Rom 10:17). But Phil 1:29 would be related to walking in the Spirit, and thus a fruit of the Spirit, since it is connected to suffering for Christ.
Yes the context does seem to be our walk...
Philippians 1:27-30 (NASB) Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; in no way alarmed by your opponents--which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you, and that too, from God. For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear to be in me.
...Or at least our walk in regards to saving faith.
Jesus Christ and Him Crucified,” is the Story of the Bible; every Doctrine must be built upon that Foundation, which constitutes the house built upon the Rock; otherwise, it’s a house built upon sand. When God’s Word is held in its Righteous context, referring to the context of Christ and His Redemptive Work at the Cross, the benefits of that Work will be MANIFEST in our lives.
The Word of God comes alive with POWER when every jot and tittle of the Word of God is pointed only to the Cross (the narrow way / the Blood of Jesus) where the victory was won. Lev. 17:11, Heb. 4:12
We have been given the measure of faith. We live in a fallen world where Satan is the god of this world. And if we sin the price for that sin equals death. You know if we sin and confess it He is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from all unrighteousness. Understand SIN in this world equals death. Sin in this world has a price. Forgiven but that SIN you did has a price. There is no time limit on it. Effects us now or years later. Then may not even touch us.. just those around us. Did not Christ once say "Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you”? We really need to KNOW who our Father really is and just what Christ died for. For the sin of the world yes but oh for SO much more.
Shocking to see how many believe God allows us to suffer. That alone goes against the word of God and everything written that He promised.
The song playing "EveryGood think Neon Feather remix". saying "every promise you provide". Well that was sung the same moment I was typing "everything written that He promised". What are the odds
We as in Adam and Eve sinned. And this suffering is part of that price that God had no hand in. So Deuteronomy has cures and promises. Do you KNOW which IS yours? I don't follow some group. I will share a small part of me. I am 59 still married since 1984. So when we got married I had the pastor read ALL the promises in Deuteronomy. I found out it was mine. My Father promised it to me. So Christ comes what happen? Showed you what rights you have in and through Him. Its ALL HIM never us. Peter and John even told you. Short is "why look at us as if we did this under out own power. Its FAITH IN THAT NAME".
A few months ago the lord said in a dream and just words "you don't invoke the name of Jesus enough". Do you KNOW who you are in Christ Jesus? Every little thing matters. A word spoken a thought or sin you don't stop or repent of. Those can open the door to the enemy. So suffering God never allowed. Did into Christ say "if this was my kingdom my servants would not have allowed you to take me"? Suffering is part of this world and GOD has no hand in it. We walk with Him as His word tells us not some group you follow. That way Satan can TRY but has no right to follow it through. For he is always trying to kill steal and destroy. So many believers do not know WHO they are WHO their FATHER IS! Who CHRIST IS!
What in the WORLD do you have to lose by just blindly following believing not what I say or anyone one else but what HE SAID in HIS WORD? You want to see GOD MOVE in your life? Be like a child and picture your on some Island and you find this book "BIBLE". You have never heard of it. Now read it and just believe! Faith MOVES GOD! Knowing with out seeing. Knowing when you pray according to His word knowing in that moment HE has already started the answer before you even ASK! No one loves you more then Him. He is ALWAYS for you never against you. He is ALWAYS with you..KNOW what ever it is HE WILL get you out of it. NO matter what you see hear or feel. The song playing right now "Lift my eyes "Vaughn Owens".
MAN haha PRAISE GOD! Again the song.. what I JUST typed and the song.. perfect TIMING! See another part of me.. I LOVE MUSIC! Since I was.. as far back as I can remember. So.. He has always spoken to me in music.. just on of so many. You know if I could GIVE away it would be for you to know HOW MUCH HE LOVES YOU and IS FOR YOU!! Your not alone.There are more angels out there helping.. the best is yet to come! Hold your ground... YOUR NOT ALONE!
Shocking to see how many believe God allows us to suffer. That alone goes against the word of God and everything written that He promised.
The song playing "EveryGood think Neon Feather remix". saying "every promise you provide". Well that was sung the same moment I was typing "everything written that He promised". What are the odds We as in Adam and Eve sinned. And this suffering is part of that price that God had no hand in. So Deuteronomy has cures and promises. Do you KNOW which IS yours? I don't follow some group. I will share a small part of me. I am 59 still married since 1984. So when we got married I had the pastor read ALL the promises in Deuteronomy. I found out it was mine. My Father promised it to me. So Christ comes what happen? Showed you what rights you have in and through Him. Its ALL HIM never us. Peter and John even told you. Short is "why look at us as if we did this under out own power. Its FAITH IN THAT NAME".
A few months ago the lord said in a dream and just words "you don't invoke the name of Jesus enough". Do you KNOW who you are in Christ Jesus? Every little thing matters. A word spoken a thought or sin you don't stop or repent of. Those can open the door to the enemy. So suffering God never allowed. Did into Christ say "if this was my kingdom my servants would not have allowed you to take me"? Suffering is part of this world and GOD has no hand in it. We walk with Him as His word tells us not some group you follow. That way Satan can TRY but has no right to follow it through. For he is always trying to kill steal and destroy. So many believers do not know WHO they are WHO their FATHER IS! Who CHRIST IS!
What in the WORLD do you have to lose by just blindly following believing not what I say or anyone one else but what HE SAID in HIS WORD? You want to see GOD MOVE in your life? Be like a child and picture your on some Island and you find this book "BIBLE". You have never heard of it. Now read it and just believe! Faith MOVES GOD! Knowing with out seeing. Knowing when you pray according to His word knowing in that moment HE has already started the answer before you even ASK! No one loves you more then Him. He is ALWAYS for you never against you. He is ALWAYS with you..KNOW what ever it is HE WILL get you out of it. NO matter what you see hear or feel. The song playing right now "Lift my eyes "Vaughn Owens".
MAN haha PRAISE GOD! Again the song.. what I JUST typed and the song.. perfect TIMING! See another part of me.. I LOVE MUSIC! Since I was.. as far back as I can remember. So.. He has always spoken to me in music.. just on of so many. You know if I could GIVE away it would be for you to know HOW MUCH HE LOVES YOU and IS FOR YOU!! Your not alone.There are more angels out there helping.. the best is yet to come! Hold your ground... YOUR NOT ALONE!