Seventh Day Adventist

[JesusLives]

Let's see... The OP offers a poll asking if we thought it was a cult.
I said no.
Then the OP writer went on to say they did not believe it was a cult either.
Plus I answered some of your thoughts about me in post #162.
And no, I have no beefs against Messianic Jews, and I thought people were ganging up on SDA for legalistic purposes which is a joke because it is no more true than being a member of the Methodist church, and I simply offered Messianic Jews as an example of how terribly off base this thread has become.

But I'm new here.
Is this how it's done around here?

Hi there...welcome to CC and please don't let the heat in the kitchen chase you away. I know when I joined many years ago now that after I had been here about two weeks I had been called a Judaizer and I didn't even know what that was.... I thought about leaving the site and I said to God... These Christians play mean... He said to me to stick around and just share because He is the one who causes the growth and for people to learn and maybe someone who needs what you are writing will come along and understand the point trying to be put across...

So please don't let some of us over zealous ones get the better of you as there are those who will appreciate your point of view. Just walk lightly and carry a big stick in the BDF cause it can get rough...lol

 

[JesusLives]

I asked the question with a poll to see what others had to say on the SDA church and waited before making up my mind on this matter.

I at this time I do not see them as a cult as defined in post #14.

Cult is a group that claims to belong to a specific religion but misrepresents any core teaching that would prevent a believer from being saved according to that religion.

By comparing definitions does the SDA teach doctrines that would prevent a believer from being saved?

(Their view on the Sabbath being a indicator who is saved and who is not, may be exclusive to Sunday worshippers but by believing that belief I do not see that limiting salvation as their is no harm in worshipping on Saturday. It may be annoying for us Sunday worshippers to hear we are not true Christians but so be it.)

Cult definition is - a small religious group that is not part of a larger and more accepted religion and that has beliefs regarded by many people as extreme or dangerous.

(According to this definition the SDA are not considered extreme or dangerous physically so the term cult under this definition may not apply also)

I still see no compelling arguments to persuade my view on the Sabbath as being a spiritual everyday acknowledgement.

I do believe Ellen White was a false prophet.

I believe she hurts the SDA's witness but with the SDA modern diversity, she may not be a acceptable as she once was. (Only speculation)

As a SDA I try not to quote or bring Mrs. White to the forefront because of the over use and over quoting done by my church. I believe the Bible is the book to quote if quoting in needed... Mrs. White was a pretty humble person and never said she was a prophet. She did write a lot of books and many of them have sound advice.

The book The Desire of Ages is a book about Jesus life and is one of the best books written on His life.

 

[shittim]

I count several people i hold in high esteem who happen to be SDA, and I give thanks for them.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Ever been to an SDA hospital?
'I have.
They treat people better than other hospitals because they believe they are doing a service for God.
Most doctors and nurses in these hospitals are SDA members.
Most SDA are vegetarians.
To my knowledge, they all offer co-ops to their members.
They don't say you are wrong to eat meat but they promote a vegetable diet for health purposes.
Nothing wrong with that.
Don't know of any cults that do this.
For that matter, I don't know of any Presbytarian churches doing it either.

No one is debating the SDA's hospitality or dietary recommendations. It is the Sabbath and the Mark of the beast doctrine that throw people off.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Go look at the Ten Commandments and you'll see they were given to the Jews by "the Lord who rescued you from bondage in Egypt." Were any Gentiles rescued from bondage in Egypt? I think not. The Law was for the Jews and any Gentile who converted to Judaism.

Romans 14:15—"One indeed judges one day above another; but another judges every day the same. Let each be fully assured in his own mind."

Keeping the Sabbath is optional. Hate me if you must; that's just how it is.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but a new creation."—Galatians 6:15

 

[JesusLives]

Go look at the Ten Commandments and you'll see they were given to the Jews by "the Lord who rescued you from bondage in Egypt." Were any Gentiles rescued from bondage in Egypt? I think not. The Law was for the Jews and any Gentile who converted to Judaism.

Romans 14:15—"One indeed judges one day above another; but another judges every day the same. Let each be fully assured in his own mind."

Keeping the Sabbath is optional. Hate me if you must; that's just how it is.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but a new creation."—Galatians 6:15

I think what amuses me the most is that the 10 commandments were given to the Jews... makes me chuckle just a little...

So question? From Adam until Mt. Sinai it was o.k. to murder, steal, commit adultery, lie and the rest of the 10? How do you suppose they knew that it was wrong to not observe God's law?

 

[ResidentAlien]

I think what amuses me the most is that the 10 commandments were given to the Jews... makes me chuckle just a little...

So question? From Adam until Mt. Sinai it was o.k. to murder, steal, commit adultery, lie and the rest of the 10? How do you suppose they knew that it was wrong to not observe God's law?

The Law was given to the Jews. Deal with it.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

As a SDA I try not to quote or bring Mrs. White to the forefront because of the over use and over quoting done by my church. I believe the Bible is the book to quote if quoting in needed... Mrs. White was a pretty humble person and never said she was a prophet. She did write a lot of books and many of them have sound advice.

The book The Desire of Ages is a book about Jesus life and is one of the best books written on His life.

She may had never directly said it but I found these quotes answering about being called a prophet.

My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people. —Letter 55, 1905, Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 32, 35, 36.

I am now instructed that I am not to be hindered in my work by those who engage in suppositions regarding its nature, whose minds are struggling with so many intricate problems connected with the supposed work of a prophet. My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more than the minds of those who have been sowing the seeds of unbelief can comprehend. —Letter 244, 1906. Addressed to elders of the Battle Creek church; See Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 34-36.

She claimed to be more than a prophet

People have said she had 2000 visions iincluding visions of the end of the world. Visions are one of the gifts of a Biblical prophet except even for the Biblical prophet, they were rare in number.

On June 27, 1850, Mrs. White wrote that only a few months remained for the people to get ready: "My accompanying angel said, 'Time is almost finished. Get ready, get ready, get ready.' . . . now time is almost finished. . . and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months."

If all of this is true then I could never in good conscience trust her writings regardless of sound advice.

 

[JesusLives]

The Law was given to the Jews. Deal with it.

That's the best you can do? I would have at least said well they had the creator God right there with them and He told them what He expected them to do maybe not so much before the fall but certainly afterwards. Cain knew he was wrong for killing his brother. God did not give him a pass... oh yeah....thou shalt not kill...

 

[JesusLives]

She may had never directly said it but I found these quotes answering about being called a prophet.

My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people. —Letter 55, 1905, Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 32, 35, 36.

I am now instructed that I am not to be hindered in my work by those who engage in suppositions regarding its nature, whose minds are struggling with so many intricate problems connected with the supposed work of a prophet. My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more than the minds of those who have been sowing the seeds of unbelief can comprehend. —Letter 244, 1906. Addressed to elders of the Battle Creek church; See Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 34-36.

She claimed to be more than a prophet

People have said she had 2000 visions iincluding visions of the end of the world. Visions are one of the gifts of a Biblical prophet except even for the Biblical prophet, they were rare in number.

On June 27, 1850, Mrs. White wrote that only a few months remained for the people to get ready: "My accompanying angel said, 'Time is almost finished. Get ready, get ready, get ready.' . . . now time is almost finished. . . and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months."

If all of this is true then I could never in good conscience trust her writings regardless of sound advice.

I see so many tear her apart. But you ask them if they have ever read any of her books and usually the answer is no. So how can you tear someone apart but you don't really know what you are tearing apart?

I could really get on board if someone would read the Desire of ages and then show me from Bible quotes where she is wrong and how bad and false she is...anyone up for a challenge?

 

[ResidentAlien]

That's the best you can do? I would have at least said well they had the creator God right there with them and He told them what He expected them to do maybe not so much before the fall but certainly afterwards. Cain knew he was wrong for killing his brother. God did not give him a pass... oh yeah....thou shalt not kill...

Okay

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I think what amuses me the most is that the 10 commandments were given to the Jews... makes me chuckle just a little...

So question? From Adam until Mt. Sinai it was o.k. to murder, steal, commit adultery, lie and the rest of the 10? How do you suppose they knew that it was wrong to not observe God's law?

Sin has been imputed since Adam but how it was revealed in history was different.

Adam to Noah we had the Romans 2:14-15 because as Romans 5:13 explains God would not judge based on a written law that had not been revealed. So we see mankind being judged by conscience.

Then between Noah and Moses we see in Genesis 9 the giving of the Noahide laws.

Genesis 9:3-7
New International Version
3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”


Romans 5:13
New International Version
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.


Romans 2:14-15
New International Version
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I see so many tear her apart. But you ask them if they have ever read any of her books and usually the answer is no. So how can you tear someone apart but you don't really know what you are tearing apart?

I could really get on board if someone would read the Desire of ages and then show me from Bible quotes where she is wrong and how bad and false she is...anyone up for a challenge?

I see so many tear her apart. But you ask them if they have ever read any of her books and usually the answer is no. So how can you tear someone apart but you don't really know what you are tearing apart?

I could really get on board if someone would read the Desire of ages and then show me from Bible quotes where she is wrong and how bad and false she is...anyone up for a challenge?

I was given the great conspiracy by my grandfather as to where the note came from in the OP. I have read parts of it dealing with the church history and the Bible being corrupted then the end time stuff gets a little odd.

But yet I left the door open to prove my post wrong. I said quote,“ She may had never directly said it but I found these quotes answering about being called a prophet.

If all of this is true then I could never in good conscience trust her writings regardless of sound advice.”

She either had visions and failed predictions or not.

I have not even got into if her words are Biblically accurate. Because if someone fails the Biblical standards for those with visions or prophecy then I need not to go further in this book.

 

[tourist]

The Law was given to the Jews. Deal with it.

So, in your opinion, it is lawful to commit murder? Or for someone to cheat on their spouse? Or to worship someone or something other than God?

 

[tourist]

I see so many tear her apart. But you ask them if they have ever read any of her books and usually the answer is no. So how can you tear someone apart but you don't really know what you are tearing apart?

I could really get on board if someone would read the Desire of ages and then show me from Bible quotes where she is wrong and how bad and false she is...anyone up for a challenge?

Some people just talk a good game.

 

[Nehemiah6]

As a SDA I try not to quote or bring Mrs. White to the forefront because of the over use and over quoting done by my church.

There is no question that the SDA denomination revolves around Ellen G. White. She is the one who introduced the false doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" which is a part of the Statement of Faith of the SDA church. She made the days of Daniel into years, and then made 1844 a specific year for a specific reason. Here are her words: “As the priests in the earthly sanctuary entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the sanctuary, Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and to cleanse the sanctuary...."
https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/746.6#10

So let's take a look at all the errors in just these few words:

1. The Millerites (from which the SDAs originated) had told their adherents that the Second Coming of Christ would be in 1844. Since that did not happen, White immediately switched to another false concept (to avoid embarrassment).

2. In Daniel there is a mention of 2,300 days. Since the prophetic month consists of 30 days, this amounts to about 6 years and 5 months. But she made 2,300 years out of thin air! From 456 BC to 1844 AD would therefore be 2,300 years. She was trying to incorporate the 70 week prophecy of Daniel into her false theology.

3. Then she claimed that Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary in 1844, even though the Bible tells us plainly that He did that already in 30 AD (after His resurrection). So she kept Christ outside His Sanctuary for almost 1900 years!

4. Then she made another blunder by saying that Christ made a "final atonement" in 1844, rather than honestly admitting that she and the Millerites had no business setting the date for the Second Coming, and apologizing for this nonsense. Well the Bible tells us very plainly that Christ did make His final atonement on the 14th of Nisan, in 30 AD. So this was in fact a contradiction of Gospel truth.

5. Then she added insult to injury by claiming that the sanctuary in Heaven was polluted and needed cleansing, therefore Christ "cleansed" that pure and holy sanctuary in 1844! That is so nonsensical and outlandish that this idea should have been rejected out of hand. Yet the SDA church did not condemn her false teachings, but incorporated them into their own beliefs.

 

[JesusLives]

There is no question that the SDA denomination revolves around Ellen G. White. She is the one who introduced the false doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" which is a part of the Statement of Faith of the SDA church. She made the days of Daniel into years, and then made 1844 a specific year for a specific reason. Here are her words: “As the priests in the earthly sanctuary entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the sanctuary, Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and to cleanse the sanctuary...."
https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/746.6#10

So let's take a look at all the errors in just these few words:

1. The Millerites (from which the SDAs originated) had told their adherents that the Second Coming of Christ would be in 1844. Since that did not happen, White immediately switched to another false concept (to avoid embarrassment).

2. In Daniel there is a mention of 2,300 days. Since the prophetic month consists of 30 days, this amounts to about 6 years and 5 months. But she made 2,300 years out of thin air! From 456 BC to 1844 AD would therefore be 2,300 years. She was trying to incorporate the 70 week prophecy of Daniel into her false theology.

3. Then she claimed that Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary in 1844, even though the Bible tells us plainly that He did that already in 30 AD (after His resurrection). So she kept Christ outside His Sanctuary for almost 1900 years!

4. Then she made another blunder by saying that Christ made a "final atonement" in 1844, rather than honestly admitting that she and the Millerites had no business setting the date for the Second Coming, and apologizing for this nonsense. Well the Bible tells us very plainly that Christ did make His final atonement on the 14th of Nisan, in 30 AD. So this was in fact a contradiction of Gospel truth.

5. Then she added insult to injury by claiming that the sanctuary in Heaven was polluted and needed cleansing, therefore Christ "cleansed" that pure and holy sanctuary in 1844! That is so nonsensical and outlandish that this idea should have been rejected out of hand. Yet the SDA church did not condemn her false teachings, but incorporated them into their own beliefs.

Place blame where blame is due.

Miller claimed the Second Coming of Christ was imminent[edit]
Between 1831 and 1844, on the basis of his study of the Bible, and particularly the prophecy of Daniel 8:14—"Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed"—William Miller, a rural New York farmer and Baptist lay preacher, predicted and preached the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. Miller's teachings form the theological foundation of Seventh-day Adventism. Four topics were especially important: 1. Miller's use of the Bible; 2. his eschatology; 3. his perspective on the first and second angel's messages of Revelation 14; and 4. the seventh-month movement that ended with the "Great Disappointment".[5]

A former captain in the War of 1812, Miller converted from Deism in 1816. Excited, he began to "search the Scriptures" for the truth. After two years he was convinced he understood them—especially Daniel 8:14: "Unto 2,300 days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

The cleansing of the sanctuary, Miller believed, could only mean the purging of the earth by fire—in short, the end of the world.

 

[RolloTamasi]

No one is debating the SDA's hospitality or dietary recommendations. It is the Sabbath and the Mark of the beast doctrine that throw people off.

I don't particularly agree with you.
Most people I've known in real life are simply curious about worshiping on a Saturday instead of a Sunday.
If you explain it with love, they accept it.
As far as the mark of the Beast Doctrine, I don't even know what that is, and I'd say the average person whether they be attending an SDA church or not doesn't understand either, anymore than a Reform church attendee understands what TULIP really means.
We forum people go deeper into subjects than the average Joe never knows anything about.

 

[SophieT]

She may had never directly said it but I found these quotes answering about being called a prophet.

My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people. —Letter 55, 1905, Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 32, 35, 36.

I am now instructed that I am not to be hindered in my work by those who engage in suppositions regarding its nature, whose minds are struggling with so many intricate problems connected with the supposed work of a prophet. My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there. It embraces much more than the minds of those who have been sowing the seeds of unbelief can comprehend. —Letter 244, 1906. Addressed to elders of the Battle Creek church; See Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 34-36.

She claimed to be more than a prophet

People have said she had 2000 visions iincluding visions of the end of the world. Visions are one of the gifts of a Biblical prophet except even for the Biblical prophet, they were rare in number.

On June 27, 1850, Mrs. White wrote that only a few months remained for the people to get ready: "My accompanying angel said, 'Time is almost finished. Get ready, get ready, get ready.' . . . now time is almost finished. . . and what we have been years learning, they will have to learn in a few months."

If all of this is true then I could never in good conscience trust her writings regardless of sound advice.

actually, her influence and writings are the reason this group is often referenced as a cult

My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people. —Letter 55, 1905, Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 32, 35, 36.

that is exactly how a prophet would describe themself

seems she might have been playing word games....saying she was not a prophet on one hand and then behaving in the office of a prophet and having people hang on her words

 

[JesusLives]

There is no question that the SDA denomination revolves around Ellen G. White. She is the one who introduced the false doctrine of the "Investigative Judgment" which is a part of the Statement of Faith of the SDA church. She made the days of Daniel into years, and then made 1844 a specific year for a specific reason. Here are her words: “As the priests in the earthly sanctuary entered the most holy once a year to cleanse the sanctuary, Jesus entered the most holy of the heavenly, at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8, in 1844, to make a final atonement for all who could be benefited by His mediation, and to cleanse the sanctuary...."
https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/746.6#10

So let's take a look at all the errors in just these few words:

1. The Millerites (from which the SDAs originated) had told their adherents that the Second Coming of Christ would be in 1844. Since that did not happen, White immediately switched to another false concept (to avoid embarrassment).

2. In Daniel there is a mention of 2,300 days. Since the prophetic month consists of 30 days, this amounts to about 6 years and 5 months. But she made 2,300 years out of thin air! From 456 BC to 1844 AD would therefore be 2,300 years. She was trying to incorporate the 70 week prophecy of Daniel into her false theology.

3. Then she claimed that Jesus entered the heavenly sanctuary in 1844, even though the Bible tells us plainly that He did that already in 30 AD (after His resurrection). So she kept Christ outside His Sanctuary for almost 1900 years!

4. Then she made another blunder by saying that Christ made a "final atonement" in 1844, rather than honestly admitting that she and the Millerites had no business setting the date for the Second Coming, and apologizing for this nonsense. Well the Bible tells us very plainly that Christ did make His final atonement on the 14th of Nisan, in 30 AD. So this was in fact a contradiction of Gospel truth.

5. Then she added insult to injury by claiming that the sanctuary in Heaven was polluted and needed cleansing, therefore Christ "cleansed" that pure and holy sanctuary in 1844! That is so nonsensical and outlandish that this idea should have been rejected out of hand. Yet the SDA church did not condemn her false teachings, but incorporated them into their own beliefs.

Another PS: I am not defending E.G. White on her mistakes or non-mistakes. I make enough of my own. I have not read every writing she has ever written I have read several of the books such as: The Great Controversy, The Desire of Ages, Early Writings and probably more but that is what I remember off the top of my head.

I also stated that if I need a quote I will go get it from the Bible and not from Mrs. White because I recognize she is not God and is also a sinner as we all are here on earth. I personally feel that I would not want someone to point out every mistake I've ever made real or imagined though...

I would like you to show me where the church was embarrassed from making a date mistake on the second coming of Jesus. I believe they admitted they were wrong. As far as I know they never again tried to put a date on the second coming because as you and I both know the Bible says. Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

If you take the time to read the history of the Seventh Day Adventist Church you will see they did make mistakes as they started off. They were a group of different denominations doing heavy Bible study and came to some wrong conclusions. Were disappointed continued to study and moved on.

I personally have had wrong ideas and in further study changed my mind on religion and other opinions and matters in my life. I even had some wrong opinions about men that over time and experience I have changed my way of thinking... It happens sometimes we get a little wiser with age and study.