Settling the Elect and Predestination Question
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Jesus is asked, 'will only a few people be saved?" and answered,
Luke 13:24
"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able"
Many are given a ticket to board, called to the gate, but don't want to go through the turn style (that requires the validation of the ticket).
Rev 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
Luke 13:24
"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able"
Many are given a ticket to board, called to the gate, but don't want to go through the turn style (that requires the validation of the ticket).
Rev 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
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there’s one chosen and predestined individual who would reconcile the worlds failure the promised seed of Abraham
“and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
Genesis 22:16-18 KJV
In thy seed is to be in Christ
“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
… Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:6-8, 16, 26-29 KJV
Paul’s predestination is talking about Christ and those who are in him the one individual chosen and fore ordained, become chosen and ordained and filled with his spirit not because we were chosen but because he is the chosen one and we then believe in him
He’s ordained and chosen and predestined we are believers in him
“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,( he was fore ordained ) but was manifest in these last times for you, ( and revealed fornus who believe )
who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”
1 Peter 1:19-21 KJV
all men failed but Christ was always ordained king of all people
“and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”
Genesis 22:16-18 KJV
In thy seed is to be in Christ
“Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
… Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:6-8, 16, 26-29 KJV
Paul’s predestination is talking about Christ and those who are in him the one individual chosen and fore ordained, become chosen and ordained and filled with his spirit not because we were chosen but because he is the chosen one and we then believe in him
He’s ordained and chosen and predestined we are believers in him
“but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,( he was fore ordained ) but was manifest in these last times for you, ( and revealed fornus who believe )
who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.”
1 Peter 1:19-21 KJV
all men failed but Christ was always ordained king of all people
Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem.
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many,
I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets
up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the
door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me,
all you evildoers!’
We need the context and background for what Jesus said.
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
It says that Jesus was walking through Israeli villages.
The people living there were Jews, not Christians.
Jews who lived under the Law.
The Pharisees had corrupted Israel. Similar, like how the RCC had corrupted the Church before the reformation took place.
The Pharisees had poisoned the minds of the Jews with salvation by legalism.
The Pharisees were demanding that Jews could only be saved by doing prescribed works.
Specific works, works that the Pharisees invented and demanded of the people in order to be saved.
The works became so unbearable, that only a few could appear to fulfill them.
That is why that person asked if only a few would be able to be saved.
The narrow door is simply having faith in the Lord - (one way), not works (broad and wide).
Jesus was not speaking to Christians, but Jews who were under the Law and the the evil thumb of the legalistic Pharisees!
Matthew 23:2-4
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
So you must be careful to do everything he (Moses) tells you.
But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s
shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."
This was the setting we find the Israelis were in when that person asked if only a few will be saved!
They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s
shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."
Only a few could dare to say they were saved!
Yes.... The Truth will make us free.
.
I would like to know what your interpretations are of Ephesians 1 and Romans 8, both of which you seem to avoid. I quote two verses of Romans 8:
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
The key to these verses is the meaning of the word "foreknew." At this point, we need to follow the biblical meaning, not the cultural or rational meaning. What I mean is we need to find out what the word "know" means when it is used between persons. If you do such a word-study, you will find out that it means "an intimate love," not just knowing about someone by acquaintance. In other words, God loved us before creation, chose (predestined us), called us, justified us, and glorified us. Every believer has gone through those five stages and continue growing in them.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
The key to these verses is the meaning of the word "foreknew." At this point, we need to follow the biblical meaning, not the cultural or rational meaning. What I mean is we need to find out what the word "know" means when it is used between persons. If you do such a word-study, you will find out that it means "an intimate love," not just knowing about someone by acquaintance. In other words, God loved us before creation, chose (predestined us), called us, justified us, and glorified us. Every believer has gone through those five stages and continue growing in them.
Most of the rebuttals here on my starting posts on this thread don't address the matter that if everyone that has believed on Lord Jesus is ordained to be saved, then why did Christ and His Apostles admonish brethren to stay in the Faith, and even proclaim that some would fall away from the Faith (Luke 8:13; . What this reveals is that the 'once saved, always saved' idea is a man-made doctrine, even though it is obviously very popular with many here.
It's obvious some here are not interested in what God's Word teaches about some brethren turning from the Faith and falling away...
2 Peter 2:1
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord That bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
KJV
Do you see that phrase in 'red' brethren? Those Peter speaks of are those who were at one time believers on Lord Jesus Christ! Peter says they "... even denying the Lord That bought them." The man-made 'once saved, always saved' doctrine doesn't work there now does it? So yes, a believer on Jesus Christ CAN... turn away from the Faith and bring that "swift destruction" upon themsevles (on the day of Christ's future return).
Here is what many brethren are missing on this matter with some falling away from the Faith to do wickedness. Your likely not going to get this lesson in your Church, so I'd recommend paying attention to this Scripture. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul rebuked the Corinthian Church because there was a member within that congregation that was having sexual intercourse with his mother...
1 Cor 5:1
5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
KJV
Some try to smooth that wicked act by claiming he was only having sexual intercourse with his stepmother. That does not alleviate the sin at all, because it is against God's Law to have sexual intercourse with your stepmother also, or even you aunt, sister, etc.
1 Cor 5:2-5
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
Paul said to cast that one out of the Church. But pay special attention in the next verses, because Paul is going to reveal a Salvation matter involving the future...
1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV
If you are cast out of the Church because of something like that, it means to be cast out in the world without Christ, left on your own.
But notice Paul commands that they cast that one out in order for what? that that sinner's "... spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." Well, just when would that be? That "day of the Lord Jesus" is put for the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign which begins on the day of His future return, that day called "the day of the Lord".
What would this mean for the believer who falls away from the Faith and is deceived because of it? Jesus showed the "unprofitable servant" will be cast to the "outer darkness" with the wicked, per Matthew 25:30.
Thusly, like Apostle Paul said in Phil 2:12, "... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
It's obvious some here are not interested in what God's Word teaches about some brethren turning from the Faith and falling away...
2 Peter 2:1
2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord That bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
KJV
Do you see that phrase in 'red' brethren? Those Peter speaks of are those who were at one time believers on Lord Jesus Christ! Peter says they "... even denying the Lord That bought them." The man-made 'once saved, always saved' doctrine doesn't work there now does it? So yes, a believer on Jesus Christ CAN... turn away from the Faith and bring that "swift destruction" upon themsevles (on the day of Christ's future return).
Here is what many brethren are missing on this matter with some falling away from the Faith to do wickedness. Your likely not going to get this lesson in your Church, so I'd recommend paying attention to this Scripture. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul rebuked the Corinthian Church because there was a member within that congregation that was having sexual intercourse with his mother...
1 Cor 5:1
5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
KJV
Some try to smooth that wicked act by claiming he was only having sexual intercourse with his stepmother. That does not alleviate the sin at all, because it is against God's Law to have sexual intercourse with your stepmother also, or even you aunt, sister, etc.
1 Cor 5:2-5
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
Paul said to cast that one out of the Church. But pay special attention in the next verses, because Paul is going to reveal a Salvation matter involving the future...
1 Cor 5:4-5
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
KJV
If you are cast out of the Church because of something like that, it means to be cast out in the world without Christ, left on your own.
But notice Paul commands that they cast that one out in order for what? that that sinner's "... spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." Well, just when would that be? That "day of the Lord Jesus" is put for the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign which begins on the day of His future return, that day called "the day of the Lord".
What would this mean for the believer who falls away from the Faith and is deceived because of it? Jesus showed the "unprofitable servant" will be cast to the "outer darkness" with the wicked, per Matthew 25:30.
Thusly, like Apostle Paul said in Phil 2:12, "... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
You really should easily know the answer to your question by Bible study, and not just in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1, for all believers on Jesus Christ are 'called', but not all of us are 'chosen', like Jesus said. So once again, I refer those with these type questions to what Lord Jesus said...
Matt 20:16
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
KJV
John 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.
KJV
Acts 9:13-15
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to Thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on Thy name."
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"
KJV
Acts 10:40-41
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.
KJV
Matt 19:27-30
27 Then answered Peter and said unto Him, "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?"
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
KJV
Matt 20:16
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
KJV
John 15:16
16 Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in My name, He may give it you.
KJV
Acts 9:13-15
13 Then Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to Thy saints at Jerusalem:
14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on Thy name."
15 But the Lord said unto him, "Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto Me, to bear My name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"
KJV
Acts 10:40-41
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed Him openly;
41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with Him after He rose from the dead.
KJV
Matt 19:27-30
27 Then answered Peter and said unto Him, "Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed Thee; what shall we have therefore?"
28 And Jesus said unto them, "Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
KJV
You fail to see what is needed....
Turn to 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
Now, look. There will be destruction for a believer. But? (read carefully)...
He will not lose his salvation.
But rather, his works will be burned up by fire, thus rendering his chances for rewards will be DESTROYED! = Destruction!
You can be a total loser in trying to live for Christ.
You can do all kinds of works in hoping to show the Lord how much you are willing to suffer...
But, if what you do is not according to sound doctrine? (according to gold, silver, and precious stones)
Your "wonderful" works will be utterly burned up...
Thus, seeing your desire to please the Lord destroyed... DESTRUCTION!
But, as far as your soul? Even being a total loser in assuming wrongly to do God's will?
It says?
You will remain "saved."
Stick with what the Word says in other places, too, please.
God is not a man that He should become petty and vindictive when some believer refuses to do His will.
Evil that will not change must be utterly destroyed.
grace and peace ............
Turn to 1 Corinthians 3:11-15.
Now, look. There will be destruction for a believer. But? (read carefully)...
He will not lose his salvation.
But rather, his works will be burned up by fire, thus rendering his chances for rewards will be DESTROYED! = Destruction!
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid,
which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold,
silver, precious stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown
for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light.
It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Cor 3:11-15
You can be a total loser in trying to live for Christ.
You can do all kinds of works in hoping to show the Lord how much you are willing to suffer...
But, if what you do is not according to sound doctrine? (according to gold, silver, and precious stones)
Your "wonderful" works will be utterly burned up...
Thus, seeing your desire to please the Lord destroyed... DESTRUCTION!
But, as far as your soul? Even being a total loser in assuming wrongly to do God's will?
It says?
You will remain "saved."
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Stick with what the Word says in other places, too, please.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,
but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son
and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” John 6:38-40
God is not a man that He should become petty and vindictive when some believer refuses to do His will.
Evil that will not change must be utterly destroyed.
grace and peace ............
Actually, it is not clear which order of conditional we have here. We don't know the mood of the verb "to be", whether it is indicative or subjunctive, because the verb is inferred but not used.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were; or it is] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
It could be saying, "if [it were] possible [but it isn't], they shall deceive the very elect.
Or it could be saying, "if [it is] possible [and it could be in some cases], they shall deceive the very elect.
So, the text neither proves nor disproves your theory.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were; or it is] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
It could be saying, "if [it were] possible [but it isn't], they shall deceive the very elect.
Or it could be saying, "if [it is] possible [and it could be in some cases], they shall deceive the very elect.
So, the text neither proves nor disproves your theory.
You missed another mention of the word, "foreknew", in the New Testament.
Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture
says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
I do believe that the word, "foreknew", means to have formerly known.
God most certainly knew Israel before He knew the Gentile nations.
Paul strongly distinguishes between the Jews and the Gentiles all the way through
the book of Romans.
As for Ephesians, it would obviously hold true that God predestined that the Gentiles
would receive the Gospel. Then when the Gentiles believed they would be grafted
into Jesus also. The Gentiles were chosen after the Jews were grafted out.
The Jews were once known, once foreknown, but have been rejected.
Romans 11:2
God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture
says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
I do believe that the word, "foreknew", means to have formerly known.
God most certainly knew Israel before He knew the Gentile nations.
Paul strongly distinguishes between the Jews and the Gentiles all the way through
the book of Romans.
As for Ephesians, it would obviously hold true that God predestined that the Gentiles
would receive the Gospel. Then when the Gentiles believed they would be grafted
into Jesus also. The Gentiles were chosen after the Jews were grafted out.
The Jews were once known, once foreknown, but have been rejected.