Secular Music

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Also, I'm just going to be honest here:

Most of the new so-called "Christian music" looks and sounds like a bunch of people who couldn't make it singing secular music so they settled for singing so-called "Christian music".

Just trying to make some money any way they can. Most of them act like they are too afraid to even mention the name of the Lord in their songs. Guess, it's not good for business.

The last "church" I attended passed out earplugs and the way they presented their hair and clothing . . . it appeared like they were playing a rock gig in a park on a sunny day. I hated it. It was terrible.

 

[1ofthem]

What's so funny @2ndTimothyGroup ?

Don't tell me you feel the Lord circumcised your heart and yet, you still have a desire for jamming out with AC/DC and the likes?!

Ok...I went too far on this comment. I would delete it but I can't because it went past the 5-minute mark.

So @2ndTimothyGroup I apologize for my comment there it was uncalled for.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

What's so funny @2ndTimothyGroup ?

Don't tell me you feel the Lord circumcised your heart and yet, you still have a desire for jamming out with AC/DC and the likes?!

Haha . . . it was the "headbanging" comment that cracked me up. I like you.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Ok...I went too far on this comment. I would delete it but I can't because it went past the 5-minute mark.

So @2ndTimothyGroup I apologize for my comment there it was uncalled for.

Oooooh! I didn't realize that you were bashing me. Perhaps I don't like you as much as I did a minute ago.

 

[1ofthem]

Oooooh! I didn't realize that you were bashing me. Perhaps I don't like you as much as I did a minute ago.

lol...seriously though, I looked at my comment and it sounded bad (rude) to me. That is why I apologized.

I like you too. So can we just put it behind us...

I really wasn't bashing you just wanted to clear that up...I can word things pretty terribly at times. So again...Sorry if it sounded bad.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

lol...seriously though, I looked at my comment and it sounded bad (rude) to me. That is why I apologized.

I like you too. So can we just put it behind us...

I really wasn't bashing you just wanted to clear that up...I can word things pretty terribly at times. So again...Sorry if it sounded bad.

I didn't read it as it was bad. And, I understand what you mean about how we write sometimes can convey a different "feeling" about who we are, or, what's actually within our hearts. So often I find that I can write in a way that sounds harsher than it actually is. In fact, I am often attacked for what I write, but I assure all that if anyone were to stand face to face with me . . . there would be no attacks.

 

[Mii]

I can understand that. But sometimes a music from a movie let say a beautiful piano piece from a movie is used for an ungodly situation or the movie itself is corrupted so in that case it's hard to recognise that music as neutral.

Oh I get that also...particularly with film scores. That's where it's a lot more common.

I'm not sure where the bible says that Lucifer was the cheif musician in heaven...but I did "know" that to be true when I was younger but I haven't ever "fact checked" it with scripture so to speak.

Either way he has a large understanding of human psychology and music plays a pivotal role in that. Films would be nothing without their scores.


I'm not in disagreement with being super choosy. There are a lot of hymns you can play also...they make for great piano solos. I heard a station that only did variations (jazz, classical) reimaginings of popular late 90s early 2000s worship songs AND older hymns...all without words. Was great for me because I get tired of the words being sung. I still know them though but it's like they are on 1-2 volume in my mind and I get to focus more on the music itself. I like still hearing them in mind though to be sure.



I don't do a lot of research into composers myself, if that's where your conscience is then certainly be accountable to that...for me there's just that one category that's off limits or anything that puts me in a physically "tense" mood (which is a lot of modern music and some jazz) Even some worship music does that...I don't get why it does that, nor do I care. Doesn't mean it's wrong (idk), but at this time it serves no purpose.


So for me that's what it's about...judging the spirit of each piece. I'm not sure if God wants us to walk as though it's a minefield though. A battlefield sure, but I think he allows you to at least see your opponents and have a general gauge...as opposed to "one wrong move and..."


Like I said, I thought this way before and yet there are so many things that we use that are created by people with horribly ungodly lives. A lot of the inventions in existence today...do we not use them and go Amish? I don't think so, I think it's about the application. Maybe I do go Amish someday but I want that to be a genuine leading and not a work. All things are lawful. Not everything is beneficial. If we are using anything as a vehicle for sin (even Godly music) that's a problem...

Good talking with you. I'm still figuring it all out. I think music is medicine and am certainly on the lookout for the beneficial kind

 

[Mii]

I can understand that. But sometimes a music from a movie let say a beautiful piano piece from a movie is used for an ungodly situation or the movie itself is corrupted so in that case it's hard to recognise that music as neutral. Similarly some classical musicians had bizare history. Beethoven had a terible ending also paganini is called as devil's violinist. So the problem is, as you said I know bach is a Godly person like a handful of others but I dono whether I can listen to other musicians music because we all know who is the chief of musicians in heaven.

I thought about it a little bit more and to be fair it's probably a different thing to produce music versus simply consuming. Watching a film vs being the person that made it...so I realize that only some of the things I said may translate to that. Just know I've also had similar conscience choices with music and you aren't alone.

 

[Angela53510]

I came to a similar sort of impasse (although I don't play, just listen) but classical takes me to heights and depths that it's like I'm "unlocking" my mood.

I had a long conversation with someone that teaches music that I know quite well because it was a quandary.


He told me how in college he had professors that loved the beauty of Christian pieces (like Handel's messiah, or bach etc.) Not saying those are specifically Christian but I think an argument can be made. Vs like certain classical pieces that are definitely on the opposite end of the spectrum. In any case, he said that they weren't believers and the music was just music for music's sake to them.

Which is sad on one level and we did get deeper into how it affected him but we also agreed that music for music's sake may very well be a thing...for the most part.


God created the very construct of music. If your goal is to bring him glory in it, I don't think the notes much matter.

A lot of it is just pretty/well done and I think the "origins" (why a composer created a certain piece) can be ignored. Neutral. All about in how you apply it. It's not wrong to want to listen to nice music and it's not wrong to just play for the sake of it. "Perhaps" something akin to using scientific knowledge regardless of who discovered it to further advance? Or driving a car even though it's inventor...?


There are though a handful of pieces in the classical eras that are almost testifying of the enemy. These feel completely different to me and, for myself at least, that's a different category and doesn't fall into music for music's sake. I can't explain it easily but perhaps I'll try later if you find it useful. It's very rare though.




Your pieces will probably be different. Music affects our spirits so we just have to exercise discernment even if it doesn't make sense.


This all is of course mostly about music without lingual words. The music speaks of course, but most of the time it's magnifies him by default to some extent it seems to me.

Even when I hear drum cores (I happened upon one of these unexpectedly) it made me pretty emotional because God made that sound and even if they aren't giving him praise for that, I choose to. So yeah, it may be different for you as far as what's beneficial and what isn't.



All this is mostly about instrumentals because you mentioned piano.



Words make a big difference for me and most modern music has words. I pick up on the deeper messages on a lot of "vague" pieces and it just works as a tool and sets me back so I'm limited to my memories on a lot of songs but that doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of options available.

It may be possible to "take back" melodies to the neutral space and just listen to the instrumentals of it and create new words or leave as is, I don't know. I rearrange and reword songs that go through my mind often enough as a response to melodies I like, but producing that for others? Idk.

It's sort of a personal practice to "clean up" songs I like and use them for what I'd like. I've seen people do this in church parties and I think it's pretty cool.

There are certainly ways to use it, but music contains a person's essence to some extent so similarly to maybe not being able to be around certain people (that most can)...it is between you and God. I do think his leading is out of love in this area and that guarding our hearts/minds is important. There is a LOT of open space though. For me, it is a discipline to sort of redirect myself to all the available options when I just want that ONE thing that I know I shouldn't have.

Like, you have 10,000 pieces of music and you just want to seek after the 10 that you know aren't good for you...but I've found that if I turn and go after the stuff I have no attraction to (in that moment) God meets me there. Better to have him fill something your flesh doesn't much care for than to have what you want.

With regards to classicaL music, many pieces of the music are more Christian than anything we have today.

Did you know JS Bach wrote "To the glory of God" on every single piece of music he wrote? He was an organist in a church. He wrote much of the music for the services and special occasions. He also basically invented counterpoint!

Handel is another case. His Messiah is an oratorio that tracks the entire life of Christ. When the Hallelujah Chorus was first sung, which is directly out of the book of Revelation, the King of England stood, and the rest of the audience, to honour God. People still do that for every performance of the chorus! He has many religious pieces. Do see it, or if you can read and pick up music in it, singing in it is one of the most amazing ways to glorify God!

Do check out classical music, we live in a secular society, but in classical times people lived in a basically Christian culture, and most wrote music to God!

 

[Mii]

With regards to classicaL music, many pieces of the music are more Christian than anything we have today.

Did you know JS Bach wrote "To the glory of God" on every single piece of music he wrote? He was an organist in a church. He wrote much of the music for the services and special occasions. He also basically invented counterpoint!

Handel is another case. His Messiah is an oratorio that tracks the entire life of Christ. When the Hallelujah Chorus was first sung, which is directly out of the book of Revelation, the King of England stood, and the rest of the audience, to honour God. People still do that for every performance of the chorus! He has many religious pieces. Do see it, or if you can read and pick up music in it, singing in it is one of the most amazing ways to glorify God!

Do check out classical music, we live in a secular society, but in classical times people lived in a basically Christian culture, and most wrote music to God!

Thanks for that. I had forgotten about them standing the whole time...what a moment in history really. The way it was told to me was that the king normally would stand up and the people would until he sat but he didn't sit at all during that so everyone else did. I love the visual I'm getting.

Occasionally that happens to me in music (albeit rarely) where I am truly moved in a dumbfounded awestruck sort of way. Where it's almost doesn't even take conscious effort to praise.



I watched some videos when I was young about Bach and Handel's lifestory so I'm minorly aware but only recalled really that it was a church setting and what Bach did was "new" at the time. What do you think of the more brooding stuff he did? I haven't listened to that in a while but I get in moods like that (like some of the Psalms) and it seems to fit.

 

[Lynx]

Hey, I wanna keep this short and sweet. What are your personal thoughts on secular music??

For me it always comes down to motive. What are they trying to express in the music?

I have Vivaldi and Bach in my personal collection because they make happy music. Even their slower songs sound peaceful. There is another classical composer I will not name, who was a firm atheist, and his music sounds a lot like he's trying desperately to grab your attention and hold it. That is NOT in my collection.

In modern secular music, I can appreciate some songs even if I don't purchase a copy for my collection. "Seven years old" is a song that talks about a lifelong struggle to not be lonely, by finding friends, finding a spouse, having kids... and none of it helps. I can appreciate the sentiment. "Medicate" talks about modern aimlessness of life, how there seems nothing to do except take more pills that doctors are happy to prescribe.

Different thought in the next post.

 

[Lynx]

I have rather eclectic taste in music. Aside from classical and comedy, the only songs in my collection are Christian - but they are everything from banjo bluegrass to christian rap, from country christian to christian heavy metal, from southern gospel to Jamaican christian.

People ask me why I don't have any secular music in my collection. "Are you too GOOD for it?" No... if I narrowed down to one or two styles like a lot of people, I would probably have some secular in there. But as wide as my tastes are, and as much good Christian music as there is in all those styles, I'll never have time for all the good Christian music in the world, much less any secular music.

 

[KrisWampler]

If you’re biblically grounded, secular music cannot and will not challenge your faith. I don’t approve swearing in music or sex references, etc., but if your faith is THAT shaken by hearing it, then something is wrong with your faith.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

If you’re biblically grounded, secular music cannot and will not challenge your faith. I don’t approve swearing in music or sex references, etc., but if your faith is THAT shaken by hearing it, then something is wrong with your faith.

That makes PERFECT sense to me. That said, it doesn't seem right if we're typically listening to it, or watching/collecting movies with nudity, etc. Those are the things I used to do. In fact, after Transformation, the things I used to do, I no longer want to do them. And, after Transformation, nearly ALL of the things I used to do, I no longer do them.

I'm currently in the process of throwing away about 1/2 (or more) of a 2,500 movie collection. It was very much centered around nudity, believe it or not. I was a dog!

 

[KrisWampler]

That makes PERFECT sense to me. That said, it doesn't seem right if we're typically listening to it, or watching/collecting movies with nudity, etc. Those are the things I used to do. In fact, after Transformation, the things I used to do, I no longer want to do them. And, after Transformation, nearly ALL of the things I used to do, I no longer do them.

I'm currently in the process of throwing away about 1/2 (or more) of a 2,500 movie collection. It was very much centered around nudity, believe it or not. I was a dog!

You used a critical phrase there - centered around. Yes, I think if the music or movies or whatever is centered around something ungodly, then it is likely not good to consume. Of course, that comes down to prayerful judgment on the part of the listener. But for me, I like many secular songs because of the emotions I experience, memories they trigger, etc. I'm not trying to focus on something ungodly and hope I don't.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

You used a critical phrase there - centered around. Yes, I think if the music or movies or whatever is centered around something ungodly, then it is likely not good to consume. Of course, that comes down to prayerful judgment on the part of the listener. But for me, I like many secular songs because of the emotions I experience, memories they trigger, etc. I'm not trying to focus on something ungodly and hope I don't.

I'm pretty sure that I totally get where you're coming from. Someone was joking earlier today, with me, about enjoying listening to some old AC/DC (Back in Black came to mind). To me, and in my mind, I don't [really] associate that with "evil" because of the raw energy that is somehow embedded within that entire album. Being a musician, I notice the energy and the uniqueness of that "sound."

The debut "Bad Company" Album is another amazing piece of collective work that I really enjoy, but again, I don't really hear it as inherently "evil." Rush used to be my all-time favorite group until I discovered hardcore Jazz Fusion, but even with that music, and though they at times sang about herb, I didn't associate it with evil, but rather, incredible musicianship. Another of my favorites: Steely Dan . . . and I mean, come on! That was/is just some unbelievable music (and fun to play along with as a drummer).

 

[Amanuensis]

Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. If you feel like you are compromising your holiness, don't do it.

 

[rickMac]

@1ofthem Christian music is not just people who imitate secular music, stick the word God in their a few times, and call it Christian. A lot of it is truly freeing and encouraging. Since I started listening to Christian music regularly in 2020, my life has changed and I have been very encouraged. More than once, a song has spoken to me or pulled me out of the darkness of depression.

As for secular music, I don't see the purpose in it, it's just empty. Filled with messages about what the world will try to fill the hole in their soul with. A lot of times, it can be negative -- case in point "Imagine" by John Lennon aka Atheist Anthem. This atheistic song in words also has a depressing, low instrumental so I personally don't understand anyone who likes that.

Another thing is that sometimes a secular song can have a message that is not denied by God, sometimes rather affirmed -- just without His name. Case in point -- "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" by Stevie Wonder. The message to not worry about anything is certainly biblical "be anxious for nothing" yet it's not mentioning the solution "in everything pray with thanksgiving." That being said it's still a good song to listen to considering all the garbage out there.

 

[Oblio]

@1ofthem Christian music is not just people who imitate secular music, stick the word God in their a few times, and call it Christian. A lot of it is truly freeing and encouraging. Since I started listening to Christian music regularly in 2020, my life has changed and I have been very encouraged. More than once, a song has spoken to me or pulled me out of the darkness of depression.

As for secular music, I don't see the purpose in it, it's just empty. Filled with messages about what the world will try to fill the hole in their soul with. A lot of times, it can be negative -- case in point "Imagine" by John Lennon aka Atheist Anthem. This atheistic song in words also has a depressing, low instrumental so I personally don't understand anyone who likes that.

Another thing is that sometimes a secular song can have a message that is not denied by God, sometimes rather affirmed -- just without His name. Case in point -- "Don't You Worry 'Bout a Thing" by Stevie Wonder. The message to not worry about anything is certainly biblical "be anxious for nothing" yet it's not mentioning the solution "in everything pray with thanksgiving." That being said it's still a good song to listen to considering all the garbage out there.

I recall some Christian songs that made it to the top of the charts back in the 70s, though at the time I was into Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, etc. The Jesus people movement was happening and God was widely respected. Times have changed. To a great deal, the church has been asleep at the wheel. I believe this will change in my lifetime.

 

[Marina]

Hey, I wanna keep this short and sweet. What are your personal thoughts on secular music??

Galatians 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Maybe it is too simple, but every music that gives you peace and Joy after listening, would be "good music". I sometimes felt "disturbed" after listening some melodies or after thinking about lyrics. I think it is similar Like good food, it feeds your body or makes it sick. I remember how in Japan there was experiment, Water structer changed on different melodies and words. Harmonious classics and words Like peace,love,thank you created symetrical Water particles while "agressive music" and words created messy particles.....so I think we cam discern good grom bad by "fruits" in us, sometimes Joy sometimes a headache