Scriptural support for Free Will

[SovereignGrace]

Come on you know that Christ seeks us not we Him.

The ball cannot seek you but if the ball is valuable to you then you will seek the ball. How much more so the Lord of Glory the souls He created and loves with a love only God can possess.

The birth of Christ was heralded by angels to shepherds while in their fields.

Christ taught through the parables that we should expect a very thorough search for those souls that are lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

N6 used Romans 10:20. So I have asked him three times now how can God be found by those who did not seek Him.

And yes, He seeks the lost. He will save(not try really really hard to save them, but will save) His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]

 

[SovereignGrace]

More false accusations. And what about when the actual Scriptures are posted contextually, and the whole world is explained contextually as actually being the whole world, and Calvinists BLATANTLY reject plain Bible truth? Take a look at this -- the words of Christ Himself -- and tell us why the whole world does not mean the whole world.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16,17 KJB).

[FONT=&quot]We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all God’s people—[/FONT][FONT=&quot]the faith and love that spring from the hope stored up for you in heaven and about which you have already heard in the true message of the gospel[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]that has come to you. In the same way, the gospel is bearing fruit and growing throughout the whole world—just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood God’s grace.[Colossians 1:3-6]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
To use your hermeneutic, the gospel is bearing fruit to everybody who ever lived, if ‘whole world’ means ‘everybody w/o exception’. Yet, when this was written, ppl lived in modern day North & South America, Russia, Alaska, Hawaii, Guam, that had not heard the gospel, so ‘whole world’ does not mean ‘everybody whoever lived’.

 

[SovereignGrace]

More false accusations. And what about when the actual Scriptures are posted contextually, and the whole world is explained contextually as actually being the whole world, and Calvinists BLATANTLY reject plain Bible truth? Take a look at this -- the words of Christ Himself -- and tell us why the whole world does not mean the whole world.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16,17 KJB).

[FONT=&quot]We know that we are children of God,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.[1 John 5:19]

In context, ‘whole world’ does not mean ‘everybody whoever lived’ but all the lost in the world. We, the believers, are not under Satan’s control. [/FONT]

 

[SovereignGrace]

You could post all the Scriptures in the world but it would not make an iota of difference to those who prefer the doctrines of men to the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] called the devil,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] or Satan,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] who leads the whole world astray.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] He was hurled to the earth,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] and his angels with him.[Revelation 12:9]

Believers are not lead astray in that we serve Satan again. [/FONT]

 

[notuptome]

N6 used Romans 10:20. So I have asked him three times now how can God be found by those who did not seek Him.

And yes, He seeks the lost. He will save(not try really really hard to save them, but will save) His ppl from their sins.[Matthew 1:21]

You realize that in context Mat 1:21 His people are the Jews? Application to the Gentiles came only after the elect Israel rejected their Messiah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SovereignGrace]

You realize that in context Mat 1:21 His people are the Jews? Application to the Gentiles came only after the elect Israel rejected their Messiah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And the OT scriptures are replete with the coming engrafting of Gentiles. All believers are the elect of God, both Jews & Gentiles.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You realize that in context Mat 1:21 His people are the Jews? Application to the Gentiles came only after the elect Israel rejected their Messiah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You fall under Gentile, are you one of God’s elect, one of those He has chosen to save?

 

[notuptome]

You fall under Gentile, are you one of God’s elect, one of those He has chosen to save?

Not elect per scriptural election of Israel but receiving the blessing they rejected and elect in Christ. Gentiles are the wild olive graft into the vine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not elect per scriptural election of Israel but receiving the blessing they rejected and elect in Christ. Gentiles are the wild olive graft into the vine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yet, it was God who grafted us in. We did not graft ourselves. Either God chose us or we chose ourselves. There’s no third option available. Ephesians is written to a largely Gentile church, and 1:4 says we were chosen in Christ from before the creation of the world. So, anyone chosen by God is chosen via scriptural election.

 

[notuptome]

Yet, it was God who grafted us in. We did not graft ourselves. Either God chose us or we chose ourselves. There’s no third option available. Ephesians is written to a largely Gentile church, and 1:4 says we were chosen in Christ from before the creation of the world. So, anyone chosen by God is chosen via scriptural election.

Chosen because we have believed in Christ not chosen to believe in Christ. True election does not violate Gods determinate will and Gods permissive will.

Love and mercy mingled in the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SovereignGrace]

Chosen because we have believed in Christ not chosen to believe in Christ. True election does not violate Gods determinate will and Gods permissive will.

Love and mercy mingled in the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We were chosen before the creation of the world. Before we did anything, He chose us. It’s whom He foreknew, not foreknew what they’d do. You’re having God reacting to what we do. We are the ones who react when He acts. He’s the primary Cause, we the secondary.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Chosen because we have believed in Christ not chosen to believe in Christ. True election does not violate Gods determinate will and Gods permissive will.

Love and mercy mingled in the blood of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You have turned grace into merit. If God chose ppl based merely on the fact He knew they would be receptive to Him, then grace becomes merit, He is showing favoritism, and that violates Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11, Galatians 2:6, & Ephesians 6:9.

 

[notuptome]

We were chosen before the creation of the world. Before we did anything, He chose us. It’s whom He foreknew, not foreknew what they’d do. You’re having God reacting to what we do. We are the ones who react when He acts. He’s the primary Cause, we the secondary.

Not at all. You just have not as yet comprehended the wonder of Gods plan of redemption for mankind. God has determined to save all who believe. God has allowed us to choose to believe or reject. Our choice is known to God because God inhabits all of eternity. God draws us by His love and saves us through His mercy.

He foreknew them in Christ because He foreknew who would believe and who would reject. He did not make some to believe and some to reject or Israel would have received Him to the exclusion of the Gentiles.

Christ knew ever before He was born in the manger that His brethren Israel would call for Him to be crucified.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not at all. You just have not as yet comprehended the wonder of Gods plan of redemption for mankind. God has determined to save all who believe. God has allowed us to choose to believe or reject. Our choice is known to God because God inhabits all of eternity. God draws us by His love and saves us through His mercy.

He foreknew them in Christ because He foreknew who would believe and who would reject. He did not make some to believe and some to reject or Israel would have received Him to the exclusion of the Gentiles.

Christ knew ever before He was born in the manger that His brethren Israel would call for Him to be crucified.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Oh, I have grasped His wonderful plan. You’re rejection of God’s sovereign election of saving rebellious, wicked, God-hating ppl is quite telling. It says none seek God, so that tells me He is the Seeker. He foreknew who would believe because He chose them.

 

[notuptome]

Oh, I have grasped His wonderful plan. You’re rejection of God’s sovereign election of saving rebellious, wicked, God-hating ppl is quite telling. It says none seek God, so that tells me He is the Seeker. He foreknew who would believe because He chose them.

Reminds me of Agrippa.

Ac 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.[1 John 5:19]

In context, ‘whole world’ does not mean ‘everybody whoever lived’ but all the lost in the world. We, the believers, are not under Satan’s control.

You have gone off on a tangent instead of addressing the actual verses posted. However, since everybody who ever lived since Adam was lost and needed to be saved (and can be -- or has been -- influenced by Satan), that Scripture means exactly what it says -- THE WHOLE WORLD. So you have actually corroborated that the whole world means the whole world.

There is none righteous, no not one -- THE WHOLE WORLD

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God -- THE WHOLE WORLD

And this is precisely why Jesus Christ the Righteous is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Now back to John 3:16,17 -- exactly what does it mean? Kindly tell us in plain English.

 

[SovereignGrace]

You have gone off on a tangent instead of addressing the actual verses posted. However, since everybody who ever lived since Adam was lost and needed to be saved (and can be -- or has been -- influenced by Satan), that Scripture means exactly what it says -- THE WHOLE WORLD. So you have actually corroborated that the whole world means the whole world.

There is none righteous, no not one -- THE WHOLE WORLD

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God -- THE WHOLE WORLD

And this is precisely why Jesus Christ the Righteous is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Now back to John 3:16,17 -- exactly what does it mean? Kindly tell us in plain English.

I am still waiting on you to explain how God was found by those who didn't seek for Him.

 

[Laish]

You have gone off on a tangent instead of addressing the actual verses posted. However, since everybody who ever lived since Adam was lost and needed to be saved (and can be -- or has been -- influenced by Satan), that Scripture means exactly what it says -- THE WHOLE WORLD. So you have actually corroborated that the whole world means the whole world.

There is none righteous, no not one -- THE WHOLE WORLD

For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God -- THE WHOLE WORLD

And this is precisely why Jesus Christ the Righteous is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

Now back to John 3:16,17 -- exactly what does it mean? Kindly tell us in plain English.

Nânne SG secgan hêo inne ofergêare [English]
Blessings
Bill

 

[Adstar]

God is God.......He told Pharaoh.....UNTO this end is why I raised the up, He also raised up Cyrus and prophetically stated by Isaiah some 200 years ahead of schedule that he would USE Cyrus to allow his people to return BEFORE they had been carried away captive to Babylon.....

God foreknew Pharaoh, He knew how Pharaoh would respond to Gods will.. And God chose to use Pharaoh as a vessal of wrath to show the world by the great signs God performed to Liberate the Hebrews, that is was an act of God.. Not an act of Pharaoh or Moses.. And yes God foreknew Cyrus and also used Cyrus as a tool to perform Gods will in regard to the Jews..

I think there is a balance to be struck........God knows the end from the beginning and being outside of time allows him to see the whole painting before it is done......Like Judas for example.....Did he have a choice or was he destined to sell Christ out?

He had a choice, made that choice and sold Jesus out for 30 pieces of silver.....God, having the ability to see the future and then end from the beginning was able to prophesy of Judas in the O.T. well before Judas came on the scene........

I totally agree..

Having said that, we cannot alleviate the truth that MANY (not ALL) are called, but few are CHOSEN......God can if he chooses call all of humanity to salvation, but by his very word and nature which he will not break....will only CHOOSE those who believe and exercise faith........

Yes many are called by the Holy Spirit.. But many resist the Holy Spirit and thats why few where chosen to be predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus.. And Yes We are saved by Believing Jesus and Faith ( which is trusting God) for our salvation.. In what Jesus said and in what Jesus did..

The question is asked....can one be saved without hearing the word and exercising faith?

My answer as I have watched this thread..........Did David's first born with Bathsheba hear a message and exercise faith? YET DAVID, under inspiration states he would go to that child and see that child again......

Davids illigitimate son from Bathsheba died as an innocent and therefore did not need the Atonement of Jesus.. As all innocents who die before they have knowledge of good and evil.. They are acceptable in eternity with God because they are without blemish..

God is fair, merciful and just......and we must balance free will, with election based upon all of the facts...not just a few verses one way or another.........just saying......

And this balance is achieved between free will and predestination when we understand that the Predestination of God is based on Gods Foreknowledge of all History.. Thus He knows beforehand each and every persons response to His will.. And thus He already knew who would and who would not accept His will at the start of Creation..

 

[7777pinacled]

The true Jews are those who have been circumcised in their hearts by the Spirit.[Romans 2:28,29]

Eber might be an apropriate designation.
Principle and Blessings