Science and the bible

[gb9]

There really is a thing about that. It has to do with the fact that there are two separate distinct words in the Hebrew for 'circle' and 'ball' - used in two separate places in scripture - but - if the word 'ball' was definitely an available Hebrew word in the language - why was it not used in the place where 'circle' was used?

Answer?

Because the intent in the verse is actually 'circle' and not 'ball'.

Look into it...

i have.

the earth is round.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Should we go by science or the bible? Here are some thoughts about this.

I would say to go by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD.

We know the bible is always correct, for it is inspired by the creator of us and our world, and we know that science is sometimes incorrect because we have seen them change their mind at times.

In John 14:26 it is written, “… he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

However, scripture is inspired by the Lord, but it is men who put those thoughts into words that he understood at the time he wrote them down. It could be that it is not correct because his understanding was incorrect.

I find it somewhat peculiar that those who go by the Bible consider the ability to read and write the spoken word as a construct of man while at the same time holding the scriptures are somehow of a divine origin. Not accusing or judging anyone, just saying that it seems somewhat ironic that they needed a man to teach them how to read so that they can hear him tell them that “he shall teach you all things.”

Another misunderstanding of scripture was centuries ago when people thought the Lord told us the earth was square. This was based on the scripture telling of the “four corners of the earth”. There was a cry of outrage when science proved the earth was round.

While I have never heard of the square earth doctrine, I have read where it is written "an end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land"

While some consider the four corners of the earth to represent the navigation directions, that is more indicative of the passage wherein the four quarters were the porters, toward the east, west, north, and south as written in 1 Chronicles. In Revelations 7:1 is where the reference is made, "And after these things, I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."

Now in Isaiah, "And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds, and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come. Jer 49:36

 

[Blik]

Some speak of the Holy Word of God as if it were some ancient textbook written and inspired by some ancient philosopher who is long dead. We need to get down on our knees and repent of our vulgar insinuations about the Bible being out of date and irrelevant and inferior to our "superior and transcendent modern intellect". God has a place for men with attitudes like that.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

That means it is alive, folks, just like it's author. God forgive us our foolish babblings on this sad day of creation!.

I truly love your thoughts about the Holy Word. Nothing but the Holy Scripture has the power to transform lives, and to think!! it has the power of life eternal and death! But let me add some questions for you.

Don't you think we should keep our minds so open so we are always listening to the Lord because the Lord lives in a completely different dimension than we do and our understanding of God is limited, even after we spend a lifetime listening and growing in understanding. As humans, we see darkly, even at our best.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

I believe what the Bible really actually says - and, if it says the earth has four corners - then, I believe the earth has four corners.

​

Or four quarters. Yet it is written, An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land.

But it does raise some question regarding the end of the four corners.

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Job 38:5

Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? Isa 40:21

 

[Blik]

I would say to go by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD.



In John 14:26 it is written, “… he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”


I find it somewhat peculiar that those who go by the Bible consider the ability to read and write the spoken word as a construct of man while at the same time holding the scriptures are somehow of a divine origin. Not accusing or judging anyone, just saying that it seems somewhat ironic that they needed a man to teach them how to read so that they can hear him tell them that “he shall teach you all things.”



While I have never heard of the square earth doctrine, I have read where it is written "an end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land"

That people believed scripture told them the earth was square is history so ancient that we have forgotten that man ever thought that. I only mentioned this history to illustrate that man can misread scripture, and science can open up a better understanding of it. Science can also muddle up our understanding of scripture!

How old the earth is is an example. I think that both science and our understanding of what scripture tells us is muddled. God doesn't think it is something we need to know or scripture would have made it plain. The Lord didn't give us scripture as a science textbook, but as a spiritual guide.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

That people believed scripture told them the earth was square is history so ancient that we have forgotten that man ever thought that.

Men have known the celestial bodies are spherical at least two millennia before the OT prophets wrote about the four corners of the earth and of course, everything about the universe has been known from the beginning. But being so ancient that it was forgotten that man even though that is rich.

Are you sure you aren't one of those theoretical theorists they call theoreticians?

How old the earth is is an example. I think that both science and our understanding of what scripture tells us is muddled. God doesn't think it is something we need to know or scripture would have made it plain.

Well, if one believes that the universe, being the physical world we live in was created, then they should understand what the term 'create' really means in the scriptures. 'The term 'create' doesn't have as broad of a definition in scriptures that it has in its common usage. When used in the scriptures of Genesis, the term 'create' has a specific and definitive meaning as being a' infers that is a 'divine act' the results in something that has never existed in either form or nature prior to the time it is brought into existence, nor is it possible for it to occur in nature except but for the 'divine act' that created it.

The Lord didn't give us scripture as a science textbook, but as a spiritual guide.

I agree that the LORD gave man the ability to communicate using the spoken word, by a 'divine act'.

 

[oyster67]

I truly love your thoughts about the Holy Word. Nothing but the Holy Scripture has the power to transform lives, and to think!! it has the power of life eternal and death! But let me add some questions for you.

Don't you think we should keep our minds so open so we are always listening to the Lord because the Lord lives in a completely different dimension than we do and our understanding of God is limited, even after we spend a lifetime listening and growing in understanding. As humans, we see darkly, even at our best.

God has put His Spirit within us to both comfort and illumine us. If we neglect to listen, is it God's fault that we are misguided, ignorant, and confused?

Don't you think we should keep our minds so open so we are always listening to the Lord?

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. That is what meditating upon the Word is all about. There is nothing complicated about any of this.

 

[Blik]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. That is what meditating upon the Word is all about. There is nothing complicated about any of this.

I agree, it is so simple the very young child grasps it. But it is also so involved and has such depth that there is more to learn each day, even if we have spent a lifetime listening to the lord.

 

[ronpal]

Should we go by science or the bible? Here are some thoughts about this.

We know the bible is always correct, for it is inspired by the creator of us and our world, and we know that science is sometimes incorrect because we have seen them change their mind at times. However, scripture is inspired by the Lord, but it is men who put those thoughts into words that he understood at the time he wrote them down. It could be that it is not correct because his understanding was incorrect.

Also, there are times that the Lord’s ways were explained by using a current saying, like we say don’t burn your bridges. We don't mean that as literal burning a bridge. An illustration of this is to tell of God wanting us to be just by saying “an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth”. The Lord was not telling us to take out eyes, the Lord was telling us to be just.

Another misunderstanding of scripture was centuries ago when people thought the Lord told us the earth was square. This was based on the scripture telling of the “four corners of the earth”. There was a cry of outrage when science proved the earth was round.

Hi Blik.

Faith is the perfect investigational tool, if I may say, of what the Truth (ultimate reality) is because science is limited by the Incompleteness Theorems discovered by one of the greatest mathematicians in history, Kurt Gödel.

The scientific method , as even scientists admit, cannot "prove" anything.

What science has shown is that there is a 95 % probability that the earth is an imperfect sphere. Science is about probability, not certainty.

I 100% think the earth is round from the combining the data from both science and the Bible.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Lord didn't give us scripture as a science textbook, but as a spiritual guide.

True. But Scripture presents scientific facts in simple language.

Regarding the age of the earth, it is plainly stated in the Ten Commandments (in the 4th commandment), which goes back to the creation account, which chronologically takes the earth back to only about 6,000 years [using the creation of Adam as the "Year of Man" (Anno Hominis or AH)].

 

[Blik]

True. But Scripture presents scientific facts in simple language.

Regarding the age of the earth, it is plainly stated in the Ten Commandments (in the 4th commandment), which goes back to the creation account, which chronologically takes the earth back to only about 6,000 years [using the creation of Adam as the "Year of Man" (Anno Hominis or AH)].

Scripture does not state that the earth is about 6,000 years old, but the interpretation of scripture states that.

What the Lord clearly states that cannot be interpreted in different ways is that we and the earth are created by the Lord.

 

[Magenta]

It meant four directions. North, South, East and West. Like the four winds. It did not mean square. That was just bad hermeneutics.
We still say the four points of the compass. The four corners (far ends) of the earth in each direction. It never meant square.

Too true. And seeing something out of the corner of our eye does not make our eyes square, either

 

[ewq1938]

Scripture does not state that the earth is about 6,000 years old, but the interpretation of scripture states that.

Agreed. At best it might have been 6000 years since Adam was created. That may or may not be fully accurate but the 6000 number was never about the age of the Earth since Adam wasn't created when the Earth was.

 

[oyster67]

Scripture does not state that the earth is about 6,000 years old

Pretty much does, actually. Not worth fighting about, though. I you, brother.

 

[oyster67]

Too true. And seeing something out of the corner of our eye does not make our eyes square, either

Magenta has eyes like diamonds!

 

[oyster67]

Agreed. At best it might have been 6000 years since Adam was created.

Great point! The Universe is 6000 years and six days old, making it 6000.02 years old.

 

[ewq1938]

Great point! The Universe is 6000 years and six days old, making it 6000.02 years old.

Two things: What happened to the 7th day? Second: This doesn't work for those who believe the days were not 24 hours in length.

A third thing I just remembered is the gap theory where the first two verses of Gen 1 aren't part of day one.

 

[oyster67]

A third thing I just remembered is the gap theory where the first two verses of Gen 1 aren't part of day one.

Another victim of Scofield's footnotes.

What happened to the 7th day?

A day happened.

This doesn't work for those who believe the days were not 24 hours in length.

Frankly, it doesn't make much difference to me if a day was 24 hours long or 24.00000135 hours long. A day is a day (not a blueberry or a peach,)

 

[Blik]

Agreed. At best it might have been 6000 years since Adam was created. That may or may not be fully accurate but the 6000 number was never about the age of the Earth since Adam wasn't created when the Earth was.

If you study Genesis 1:1-3, there was something here when we are told of "in the beginning". And when was the beginning? God does not tell us of creation in text book style.

Genesis 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

In Hebrew, the word translated as darkness meant chaos or evil. The Hebrew word translated as light meant all things good. It wasn't until the fourth day that God created the light as we think of it as sunlight and moonlight.

There is mystery in the first chapter of Genesis, and God tells us plainly in simple language all we need to know.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Should we go by science or the bible? Here are some thoughts about this.

The Bible is the sole source of spiritual truths and knowledge.
The Bible is NOT the sole source for earthly truths and knowledge.

Let us distinguish between these.

Let us not be anti-science. Science as intended is legitimate. Its foundations are honesty, methodical and rational approach, design of experiments, research, verification, validation, reproducibility, peer review, peer testing and scrutinization...

Science is about the expansion of earthly knowledge and truth. Now some science has been politicized and some has been religionized. Let us not repay sin with sin.