Wrong.
You don't believe the Bible then you don't believe in God. Examine that carefully.
Saved by Water
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Wrong.
You don't believe the Bible then you don't believe in God. Examine that carefully.
R
RichMan
Guest
I thought those who do not believe in the trinity were not allowed here.
It explains his lack of understanding.
Those are good questions.
God is the only one who has the authority to give...which is why a person has to be a minister called of God , not self-appointed or even church-appointed or internet-ordained. That's why it's written in Romans 10:14-15 KJV:
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
You can receive the Holy Ghost all by yourself without a preacher... but you can't get baptized without one.
"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?" - 1 Corinthians 3:5 KJV
Water baptism (believe it or not) is a part of belief (He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mark 16:16) and is a part of repentance because it's part of separating us from our sins. (Baptism is for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4, Luke 3:3, Acts 2:38 )
That's why Jesus could say to Peter and the rest he was sending to baptize " Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." - John 20:23 KJV
The power of remission of sins is in the hands of the baptizer... THAT is why God has a minister for every man. It's important to be sure whoever you choose to follow is not a blind leader of the blind.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
We do not make a doctrine based on one verse of the Bible, In fact, when dr Luke wrote the book of Acts. He did not seperate his writing into verse and chapter form. Men did that many years later.
Acts 2 does not say what you think it says. If you want to true gospel. I suggest you go to John 3, 4, 6 and many other passages where Jesus himself told us how to be saved.
And please. Do not say John 3 says water baptism. Jesus did not use the word baptism in that chapter when he told Nicodemus how to be born again. By faith in the one who was sent, who like the serpent who was lifted up. Will be lifted up himself.
Now if you want to discuss the word. Let’s discuss. But if your going to just make sly remarks like this. Then I will move on.
I got baptized with out one
1. I was Baptized by the HS into the death and burial of Christ (romans 6) and because of it I walk in newness of life, because I have been risen in him
2. I was baptized by the HS into the body of Christ. Christ being the head. And with that. I am part of the family of God 1 cor 12
3. I was baptized by the HS into Christ. And as such, I have put on Christ. He is my redeemer and my savior.
Oh, And a year after these events happened. My pastor did baptize me in water. As a good conscious testimony to the people of my church and visitors of my faith in Christ and my receiving the gospel and praising God.
FreeGrace2 said:
And Acts 15:1-5 demonstrates that even during the formation of the NT church, the heresy of salvation requiring circumcision was seen. And forcefully refuted.
The same applies to savlation requiring water baptism.
Both circumcision and water baptism are RITUALS. The first one removes a bit of skin, and the second one removes a bit of dirt.
But both of them clearly identify the person with another Person.
The first one identifies with being God's chosen people.
The second one identifies with being in Christ.
And that's all they do.
Circumcision was commanded of the Jews.
Water baptism is commanded to believers in Christ.
Neither were for soul salvation.
btw, I proved from Scripture that Paul's message of salvation by grace through faith came straight from the OT.
So, you are arguing with the Bible, not me.
And Acts 15:1-5 demonstrates that even during the formation of the NT church, the heresy of salvation requiring circumcision was seen. And forcefully refuted.
The same applies to savlation requiring water baptism.
An expected response from those who don't want to admit the parallelism between the two.
Both circumcision and water baptism are RITUALS. The first one removes a bit of skin, and the second one removes a bit of dirt.
But both of them clearly identify the person with another Person.
The first one identifies with being God's chosen people.
The second one identifies with being in Christ.
And that's all they do.
Circumcision was commanded of the Jews.
Water baptism is commanded to believers in Christ.
Neither were for soul salvation.
btw, I proved from Scripture that Paul's message of salvation by grace through faith came straight from the OT.
So, you are arguing with the Bible, not me.
Please don't make such silly and condescending claims.
Can you point to anyone who has claimed that they don't believe Acts 2:38? No, you can't.
The issue that those who are "immersed" in the requirement for water baptism for salvation simply misunderstand and misapply the verse.
You guys claim it is THE pattern for salvation. We KNOW it was ONLY for that immediate crowd, who SAW the miracles of Jesus and then shouted "crucify Him, crucify Him".
By Acts 10, Cornelius received salvation and the Spirit on the basis of faith, BEFORE Peter was convinced by the evidence to water baptize them.
Gal 3:2 and 5 gives the NT pattern for receiving the Spirit; by believing the gospel.
Your theory is all wet.
Thanks for the reply. I'm thankful you express faith in Jesus and were willing to submit to water baptism as a matter of good conscience.
May I ask what you mean by Baptized by the HS? I think it means something specific and observable, but that perspective seems to be the minority amongst those who populate the BDF. Would you be willing to elaborate?
NOTE of WARNING: Be ready for opposition from pretty much everywhere once you are specific. If you are vague enough that others can interpret it as including their particular beliefs, you'll be fine. But once your meaning is clear, people will likely take offense.
I have another question on your point #1 but one question seems enough for this post.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Denominational beliefs are irrelevant. What is relevant is what is confirmed in the actual Word of God. If you would seriously consider what the Word says about topics such as how one is to be water baptized you might be surprised to find it firmly establishes concepts that you never realized. And as such, debunks what you have been taught.
Does the word make the connection between the use of the name of the Lord Jesus and remission of sin?
For the record I do most certainly believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.that would explain why he does not believe in the Father Son and Spirit. I wonder what bible they use. and what matt 28 says in it.
Ouch Immersion by a man and having to speak in tongues..
Self promotion. Its what I do. Not hwat God did and does.
That's scary.
And thank you
I use the King James Version. It states "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Notice Jesus tells His apostles to use a NAME in Matthew 28:19. The apostles obey him and water baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus. You may want to take a look at all of the detailed scriptures that make the point that the name of the Lord Jesus is to be used in connection with water baptism. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
And, actually one's obedience has nothing to do with self promotion.
Thank you for your response
John the baptist told us of this when he spoke ot the one comming after him, who would baptize with ther HS and fire.
With his winnowing fan in his hand, he will thoroughly clean out the threshing floor
with the baptism of the HS (Holy Spirit) the wheat (children of God) are put in the barn (heaven)
the chaff (non believer) is baptized into the fire that shall never be quenched. There is only one unquenchable fire mentioned in Scripture. and that is the fire of Hell. The eternal life. in which all who do not believe are cast after the final judgment.
as for the minority? I have only been here a short time, and I see very few who actually believe in baptismal regeneration by water.
so I respectfully question your numbers. can you please elaborate?
I am not worried about opposition. I expect it.. All I request is those who appose do it with respect. Unlike peldon here. who just made rude comments with no meaning behind them. I will not discuss the word with people like that.
I am however worried that people are replacing the baptism of the spirit with baptism of water when it comes to eternal salvation.
Romans 6 says I was baptized (in the greek immersed, or plunged or placed into) Christ, It also says I was baptized (immersed, plunged or placed into) his death. No water is mentioned. and it should not be assumed.
Baptized is a verb, its an action word It is saying we are being immersed into something. The object of the verb is what we are being baptized into. In romans 6 the object is Christ and his death
In 1 cor 12. the object is the body of Christ
and in Gal 3 I was baptized into Christ himself
I was baptized into water by my pastor again a year after I was saved and baptized and anointed by the Spirit
I was baptized into Christ and his death by God himself. My pastor nor the water has the ability to take me back 2000 years, or into heaven to baptize me into Christ and his death.
another note in Romans 6. we were not baptized into his resurrection. That is because it is a yet future event. On col 2. we are told we are baptized with the baptism not without hands (spiritual circumcision) by the spirit. who raised Christ from the dead. That same spirit will raise us from the dead when the resurrection takes place. At that time we will be baptized with his resurrection.
Just a few things to ponder as you think of what I am thinking
thank you for the conversation
Jesus made no mistake. The mistake is in failing to realize what Jesus stated was required. And that is confirmed by how the apostles water baptized people in the bible. They never used the phrase, they used a name. Everyone was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. As stated the bible itself says that in Jesus dwells all of the fulness of the Godhead bodily. (Col. 2:9-13) The Godhead of course is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
He said in the NAME of the FATHER, and the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT
We can not single one out.
I am not to worried about how water baptism is carried out. It will make no difference in if one is saved or not
Even if it was required. God is not going to send someone to hell because the pastor who baptized them said Father Son And Holy Spirit, instead of just saying the Lord.
To even think otherwise. that the person will go to hell because the pastor screwed up, I mean come on man.. sometimes we just have to think.
Your right he did not make a mistake.
He said to baptize in the name of the Father Son and Spirit.
So I will take him at his word.
This statement is so true. To reject the Word is in actuality a rejection of Jesus because He is the Word.
I believe in the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Col. 2:9 says that in Jesus dwells the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He did not say get baptized because you are saved. (Mark 16:16)
Interesting statement since you misunderstand what is conveyed in Matthew 28:19 and insist the proper way to baptize is using a phrase. A phrase that is never repeated in administering water baptism. In fact every single detailed record of water baptism is done in the name of the Lord Jesus.