No one denies this. Of course it does.
What water baptism DOESN'T DO is save. That is the sole issue.
Saved by Water
- Thread starter Wansvic
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What water baptism DOESN'T DO is save. That is the sole issue.
I have rightly judged that your view that water baptism saves is unbiblical.
I never said that.
The promise was directed at Jews and Gentiles who were present.
You weren't there. It does NOT apply to anyone who did not see the miracles of Jesus and participate in His crucifixion.
Really? Sin? Is that possible? Is contradiction possible with God?
And separate, as this notes.
Praying to oneself is irrational and mentioning 2 different wills involved.
You have no grounds for your beliefs.
Actually, sanctification is a life long process. It would begin with baptism. But that's not the end or completion of it.
FreeGrace2 said:
Why would you think that Nicodemus would think of Christian baptism when Acts 2:38 hadn't even occurred yet.
You seem totally unaware of these disciples:
Acts 19-
1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples
2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
This proves that John's baptism is NOT Christian baptism.
Proving my point about Nicodemus.
Why would you think that Nicodemus would think of Christian baptism when Acts 2:38 hadn't even occurred yet.
Neither were performing "Christian baptism".
You seem totally unaware of these disciples:
Acts 19-
1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples
2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
This proves that John's baptism is NOT Christian baptism.
Proving my point about Nicodemus.
FreeGrace2 said:
Regardless of how "quickly" Peter got them into water, the point remains that they were saved and receive the Holy Spirit BEFORE BEFORE BEFORE getting wet.
They were considered SAVED when the Holy Spirit indwelt them. That was BEFORE they got wet.
Regardless of how "quickly" Peter got them into water, the point remains that they were saved and receive the Holy Spirit BEFORE BEFORE BEFORE getting wet.
Please prove from the passage that Cornelius and household weren't saved or had their sins remitted before they were baptized.
They were considered SAVED when the Holy Spirit indwelt them. That was BEFORE they got wet.
Really? Have you ever read Acts 11 all the way through? If you have, you wouldn't have said this.
This is what Peter told the Jews what Cornelius told him:
13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter.
14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’
So yes, salvation is most definitely the issue here.
Then Peter continues:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized withthe Holy Spirit.’
17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
All this occurred BEFORE Peter baptized Cornelius or any of his household.
Water baptism is a sign of obedience and the beginning of sanctification of the believer.
Sins are remitted on the basis of faith. Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
I praise God that He established the purpose of water baptism (remission of sins) before the Holy Ghost was even available for TWO reasons (at least):
1. Because it cannot be claimed that "Baptism is for remembrance" when the things that are supposedly being remembered aren't even available yet... (Jesus hasn't been crucified, and the Holy Ghost hasn't been poured out) So the purpose of baptism remains only that which is stated, "the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins:"
2. The person cannot be labelled "Saved" in the MAN's tradition-al way of declaring people "Saved", even though they've received remission of sins (again for the reason that the Holy Ghost was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
And yes, I said something that will sound contradictory to those who are DEEP in the tradition of declaring various people "saved" instead of acknowledging the pieces/parts/aspects of salvation: 1= Remission of sins. 2= Receiving the Holy Spirit. (1) Remission of sins (through water baptism)... was available BEFORE (2) receiving the Holy Ghost was available. That's not a contradiction. It just proves that they are TWO separate pieces/parts/aspects...(BOTH of which are necessary in the new covenant).
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Acts is the first book where the Holy Ghost is being poured out in fulfilment of the promise made in Joel, and in the way described by Jesus as "Ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence". So it's good that you are able to acknowledge places where people are receiving the Holy Spirit.
BUT....
You are failing to acknowledge that remission of sins was already being accomplished in the days of John the baptist. <-- That's part of the reason there had not risen a greater prophet than John the baptist. John was the FIRST to be given the tool and authority for remission of sins.
"John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." -Mark 1:4 KJV
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
First, let's correct what may be just a typo (hope so, anyway).
No one says that baptism is for remembrance. John's baptism was for repentance. A different word completely.
Paul himself declared HOW a person is saved. "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".
@FreeGrace2 my point being that you want me to read Acts 11 and believe it through the lens of your unbelief of Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ begins with the baptism of repentance for remission of sins preached and practiced by John the baptist.
Mark 1:1-4 KJV
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; [2] As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [3] The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. [4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
FreeGrace2 said:
Really? Have you ever read Acts 11 all the way through? If you have, you wouldn't have said this.
I showed you the verses that PROVE that Cornelius and household were SAVED and RECEIVED THE SPIRIT BEFORE Peter baptized them.
Really? Have you ever read Acts 11 all the way through? If you have, you wouldn't have said this.
Since you didn't answer my question, I have to assume that you haven't read all the way through Acts 11.
I showed you the verses that PROVE that Cornelius and household were SAVED and RECEIVED THE SPIRIT BEFORE Peter baptized them.
Why the necessity to make such a completely ridiculous presumption?
Please read Acts 11 and BELIEVE what you read. It's really not that deep.
I am thankful that you didn't take the "I'm offended by the inference of unbelief" stance. Thank-you for that.
It seems you believe that proper "belief" excludes baptism for remission of sins. a.k.a water baptism for remission of sins is something outside of belief, therefore it is unnecessary
I believe that proper "belief" includes baptism for remission of sins. A.k.a water baptism for remission of sins is something inside of belief, therefore it is a necessary part of belief (and more specifically it is part of "repentance")
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
...and it is not to save a man's soul from eternal death and Hell. Only the Blood of Jesus can do this. Nothing else. It is time you stop trying to undermine and detract and distract from the Atonement.
You have been warned more times than you deserve to be. You may have crossed line from being a victim to being a blaspheming apostate who is leading others astray. You may soon become banned if you continue to undermine and spread confusion about the core essence of our Salvation. Do not fear me, but fear Him whose Atonement and Gift you dishonor and seek to minimize and detract and distract from.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Well........ well........ well.
So it has come down to this, Mister Kelby.
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
The last resort; Trying to divide the perceived enemy.
Daniel
5:24 Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written.
5:25 And this [is] the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
5:26 This [is] the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
5:27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
Goodbye, Mister Kelby.
Those who believe in Jesus will be saved through their obedience to His commands. Notice Hebrews expresses that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him.
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9
Pretty interesting that you should be so offended when all that was done was to point out your very own posts on the topic.