Saved by Water
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There is a conditional promise given in holy scripture...of baptism of the Holy Ghost...the condition of the promise being water baptism in Jesus' Name (Acts 2:38-39).No, it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves. Not water.
Your theory is all wet.
Why do you associate permanent glorification with having our sins washed away as if BOTH must occur at the same moment AND be permanent?
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
FreeGrace2 said:
So? What was his very clear answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved? It was simply to believe on the Lord Jesus and he WILL BE saved.
Very clear. Paul did NOT believe that water baptism was required to be saved. Period.
The ONLY baptism that does save is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at regeneration.
So? What was his very clear answer to the jailer's question of what he MUST DO to be saved? It was simply to believe on the Lord Jesus and he WILL BE saved.
Very clear. Paul did NOT believe that water baptism was required to be saved. Period.
There is no verse that says that water baptism saves.
The ONLY baptism that does save is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which occurs at regeneration.
That reply boggles my mind!..
@Rebel77 made a doctrinal statement that CANNOT be found in the bible, and yet you called it a simple fact. And you nearly scoffed at the suggestion that it should be supported by scripture before being trusted.
My guess is that under any other circumstance you would advise others NOT to do that!
That just blows my mind! (so to speak).
-Kelby
Sheer speculation. Paul's answer to the jailer REFUTES your claim.
I'm not arguing against water baptism. I AM arguing against the theory that water baptism saves the soul. It does not.
FreeGrace2 said:
Oh nonsense. Don't add to Scripture. There is no "specifically". Paul was clear. He said he was NOT SENT to baptize. Period. If baptism is required for salvation, he would have SAID SO. But he didn't.
Oh nonsense. Don't add to Scripture. There is no "specifically". Paul was clear. He said he was NOT SENT to baptize. Period. If baptism is required for salvation, he would have SAID SO. But he didn't.
Why do you continue to argue against the FACT that Paul's answer to the jailer REFUTES your claim? If water baptism was required to be saved, then Paul's answer WOULD HAVE included water baptism. How can you not see that?
So it your preaching about liquid baptism.
Sure I can. I just gave you several verses that, taken by your view, make God to be a schizophrenic.
You CANNOT explain those verses with the notion that God is just one Person. What you have is one person with 3 personalities. That is a mental illness.
Prove it. Quote the creeds. But it doesn't what the creeds say.
What matters is what the Bible says. And as I said, NO father can be his own son, and NO son can be his own father to himself.
Your theology is schizophrenic.
It is truly sad that you can't see the absurdity in what you say.
NO father can be his own son, and NO son can be his own father. That is simply schizophrenic.
Such a theology is schizophrenic.
The Bible describes the Father and Son as sitting beside each other.
Now, how do you explain that?
Although I see a PROMISE being made in Acts 2:38 towards receiving the Holy Ghost, I feel your proposal might have error when it goes so far as to suggest water baptism is a pre-requisite for receiving the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples seem to show otherwise.
And that is NOT meant to discourage you. I'd just like your belief system to be as spotless as possible.
It can be discussed later if desired.Love in Jesus,
Kelby
FreeGrace2 said:
That refers to the PENALTY of sin.
Apparently you totally misunderstand the word "purifies" which is in the present tense. Something we need to do again and again.
And purifies here means to cleanse. We need on-going cleansing because of our on-going sin.
1 John 3:2 - Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
There are NO WORDS in ch 7 that support your claim.
That refers to the PENALTY of sin.
Impossible. If that were so, we wouldn't need 1 John 1:9, and Paul himself was crazy to write Romans 7.
Apparently you totally misunderstand the word "purifies" which is in the present tense. Something we need to do again and again.
And purifies here means to cleanse. We need on-going cleansing because of our on-going sin.
Stop begging. Jesus is perfectly pure. Unlike human beings in the flesh. However that will all be resolved when believers receive their glorified bodies, and we shall be like He is.
1 John 3:2 - Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
Just read it over and over until it actually sinks in. Paul was describing his own PRESENT struggle with sin.
There are NO WORDS in ch 7 that support your claim.
Please pay better attention. I never said he was "actually carnal when he wrote the chapter". I SAID he was describing his own struggle with sin. The chapter is actually quite clear. You should read it sometime.
Correct. And Paul was describing his own personal struggle with sin.
@justbyfaith and to let you know, I'm saying that to you because I believe you CAN see (and learn from) truth.Although I see a PROMISE being made in Acts 2:38 towards receiving the Holy Ghost, I feel your proposal might have error when it goes so far as to suggest water baptism is a pre-requisite for receiving the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples seem to show otherwise.
And that is NOT meant to discourage you. I'd just like your belief system to be as spotless as possible.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
FreeGrace2 said:
YOU will be held accountable for your own false doctrines.
I have been exposing it, but you just keep rejecting the truth.
I have been explaining what the verses you quote mean, unlike yourself. You have ignored and dodged the verses I have posted.
YOU will be held accountable for your own false doctrines.
Everything you've been posting.
Let me say that is what I've been doing here.
I have been exposing it, but you just keep rejecting the truth.
I have been explaining what the verses you quote mean, unlike yourself. You have ignored and dodged the verses I have posted.
Not permanently. The cleansing is NOW. Not future. We confess the sins we commit and are cleansed.
No, the promise is receiving the Spirit through belief in Christ. Gal 3:2,5 is very clear.
We must be born again now in order to be glorified later.
S
SophieT
Guest
utter and complete rubbish
the Bible declares we are saved only through the blood of Christ
you are deceived and trying to lead others away from the pure gospel and the faith that believes in Christ's work on our behalf
Jesus said 'It is finished' meaning a complete work and lacking nothing, yet you hypocrites who say you believe, want to complete a spiritual work of the Holy Spirit by your own flesh and a dunk in the lake
all your work is a filthy rag according to God and that applies to each one of us.
there is only One who can save and a believer knows this and does not try to accomplish in their flesh what only God can do by His Spirit
S
SophieT
Guest
and this is for those who cannot comprehend that water baptism is symbolic and think it is not in scripture...well it is
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. this verse indicates a symbolic burial with Christ through water baptism and not washing away of any sin. if a person can remember that the Bible is CLEAR that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, they can then view scripture concerning baptism with a proper understanding of the symbolism and the fact that while we should be baptized, this does not wash away our sins. through the act of water baptism, we signify that our old lives are now behind us...buried...and we are now alive in Christ, a new creation and a child of God
Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.
Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church. When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.
Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”
Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”
Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized. references are from scripture and the explanations are from here
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. this verse indicates a symbolic burial with Christ through water baptism and not washing away of any sin. if a person can remember that the Bible is CLEAR that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, they can then view scripture concerning baptism with a proper understanding of the symbolism and the fact that while we should be baptized, this does not wash away our sins. through the act of water baptism, we signify that our old lives are now behind us...buried...and we are now alive in Christ, a new creation and a child of God
Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.
Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church. When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.
Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”
Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”
Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized. references are from scripture and the explanations are from here
Perhaps you are allergic to bananas?
Sorry, but I just can't take you seriously anymore. You want us to debate theories that are so off the wall and unscriptural that they border on bizarre. You want us to provide Scripture that proves that giraffes are not dogs with stretched necks.
To maintain that any rite or ritual is required for salvation is more than bizarre...
It is blasphemous and good grounds for having you banned.
There are many verses that teach us such a thing (John 3:5, Romans 6:1-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:11-15, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27, to name a few)