Saved by Water

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Wansvic said:
I will be happy to respond when you can ask a question without being rude. Your appetite to ridicule people is no longer going to be fed by me.
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well good then

you retiring?

a total non sequitur because you cannot argue with scripture. you can twist it and massage it to suit your false doctrine but in the end you cannot deny that you are wrong so you turn to personal attacks
 
Evmur said:
If you make baptism a requirement of salvation you are as guilty as those who turned the Galatians away from the pure faith.

I say to you BEWARE.
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Also, no different than requiring circumsision for salvation, from Acts 15.

There is no action that saves. Belief isn't an action but a trust/agreement.
 
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what Oneness Pentecostalism teaches is not new. The rejection of the Trinity, with the teaching that there is one God who reveals Himself in various forms, is actually Sabellianism and modalism being flouted once again. nothing new under the sun it seems

Oneness teaching is similar to Unitarians who also deny the Trinity. They also do not see the Son as scripture provides but rather only as a man and they believe the Holy Spirit is only a 'power'. The Oneness people teach God comes in different forms. Neither view is correct

when the Oneness doctrines are exposed and refuted, Sabellianism and modalism are being refuted because they are the teachings that Oneness springs from.

The names of God actually point to plurality of persons. For example, the Hebrew word translated as God in Genesis and also in more than 2700 other places in the OT, is Elohim. This word means 'more than one' If Genesis 1:1 began with the Hebrew word 'El' it would have been singular, but this noun was not used. So, we have a plural name for God used over 2700 times in the OT and yet the Oneness group would have you believe this is not true.

In the beginning, ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth.

In Genesis 3:22, we read 'the man has become as one of us'. Well who is the US? Elohim...not El

Two Lords are mentioned in Genesis 19:24, two Lords sit side by side in Psalms 110: 1-5 among other such references in scripture

Yet, the Oneness Pentecostals will overlook these facts, change the subject or attempt to state that is not what the author meant

There is actually only ONE place in scripture where it is stated that Jesus is the Father, Isaiah 9...but this is a Hebrew idiom describing the terminology of the Jews. We know that while Jesus was on earth, he prayed to His Father in heaven and a voice from heaven spoke when He was baptized by John.

Scripture also states that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

It is mind boggling how people can try to teach that no Godhead exists.
 
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Wansvic said:
Obedience to water baptism is when one's sins are remitted as stated in God's word. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
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Your obsession with water Baptism is disturbing.

And, as others have pointed out, a false Gospel.

Why are you so fixated on water Baptism?
 
PennEd said:
Your obsession with water Baptism is disturbing.

And, as others have pointed out, a false Gospel.

Why are you so fixated on water Baptism?
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The bible says it is necessary for the remission of one's sin. And without the remission of sin a person will not enter the kingdom of God. (1 Cor 6:9-11) As such, it is a very important topic. It is required, and is to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, the name that is above all names, according to the word. (Acts 2:38, 4:12)
 
Wansvic said:
Since Acts 2:38 and 22:16 speak directly to the fact that remission of one's sin takes places upon obedience to water baptism
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This is a lie, and shame on anyone that listens to you after this post.

Here we go one more time...

Acts
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Neither of these verses refers to water. They refer to baptism and sealing in and by the Holy Ghost, which is given us when we put our faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus. Only His Blood can wash away sin.
 
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oyster67 said:
This is a lie, and shame on anyone that listens to you after this post.

Here we go one more time...

Acts
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Neither of these verses refers to water. They refer to baptism and sealing in and by the Holy Ghost, which is given us when we put our faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus. Only His Blood can wash away sin.
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As shown being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is referring to water baptism. This truth is stated in the Acts 10 account:

Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

According to John the Baptist water baptism was to be done to remit sin. (Luke 3:3) Thus, the connection of water baptism with the Acts 2:38 account and Acts 22:16.
 
KelbyofGod said:
Why do you say "not water baptism" in regards to remission of sins? Does not Mark 1:4 (and Luke 3:3) state that John baptized "for remission of sins"?

John clearly was baptizing with water and NOT the spirit.

So remission of sins was accomplished by water baptism, not spirit baptism. Remission of sins just makes us sin-free. It does not make us Sons. Spirit baptism is what makes us Sons, as you pointed out.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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You certainly do know how to put on a mesmerizing juggling act....

KelbyofGod said:
John clearly was baptizing with water and NOT the spirit.
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KelbyofGod said:
Spirit baptism is what makes us Sons
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Kind of leaves that water-baptism-for-salvation thingy out in the cold, yes?
 
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oyster67 said:
Kind of leaves that water-baptism-for-salvation thingy out in the cold, yes?
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Not when you consider that a person would want to BOTH be a son AND be sin-free.

One baptism (water) to make the person sin-free. One Baptism (spirit) for adoption into sonship. Born of Water and Born of the Spirit

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
KelbyofGod said:
Not when you consider that a person would want to BOTH be a son AND be sin-free.
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My apologies if capitalizing "both" and "and" comes across as shouting or heightened emotion. It's not. I just wanted to highlight the importance of two pieces that each need to be present in order for it to be accepted, rather than debating whether one piece is better than the other.

i.e. Fins AND scales....chewing the cud AND cloven hoof... both pieces are necessary in each example.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
KelbyofGod said:
Not when you consider that a person would want to BOTH be a son AND be sin-free.
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So you think that water baptism makes a person sin-free??? Where do you get this idea?

One baptism (water) to make the person sin-free.
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When making direct claims, please include verses that clearly support those claims.

One Baptism (spirit) for adoption into sonship. Born of Water and Born of the Spirit

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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You sure know how to conflate verses to defend what you claim.

The words "born of water and born of the Spirit" comes from John 3:5 - Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

This verse follows v.3 - Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

So, in v.3 Jesus speaks of being "born AGAIN". This is spiritual birth, or the new birth, or regeneration.

By saying this, Jesus was actually noting 2 births; the first birth is physical and the second birth is spiritual.

So we understand v.5 as Jesus saying: no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born physically and spiritually.

That's what "water" means in v.5.

Nothing more.

You are attempting to spiritualize the verse.
 
FreeGrace2 said:
So you think that water baptism makes a person sin-free??? Where do you get this idea?
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From the bible. Specifically these verses establishing baptism for the purpose of remission of sins. (no matter how much we don't like it):

Mark 1:4 KJV
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3 KJV
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

These are clear statements of the purpose of water baptism. I know it goes against what most churches teach. But if we can trust the bible, we can believe what it says water baptism is for... (remission of sins).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
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FreeGrace2 said:
So you think that water baptism makes a person sin-free??? Where do you get this idea?
KelbyofGod said:
From the bible.
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Oh, please. Quote verses.

Specifically these verses establishing baptism for the purpose of remission of sins. (no matter how much we don't like it):

Mark 1:4 KJV
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke 3:3 KJV
And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

These are clear statements of the purpose of water baptism. I know it goes against what most churches teach. But if we can trust the bible, we can believe what it says water baptism is for... (remission of sins).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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Apparently you don't understand what "remission" means. None of these verses supports your claims of being sin-free.

The word "remission" means forgiveness of, not removal of.

In fact, there are NO verses that teach that believers can become sin-free during this life.

That's why we have 1 John 1:9. To be cleansed from on-going sins. And to restore fellowship with the Lord.
 
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