He was probably the first
The wise men came to mind but...
John even leapt in the womb!
Saved by Water
- Thread starter Wansvic
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The wise men came to mind but...
John even leapt in the womb!
Precious friend, God DID Require water, In HIS Previous Dispensation Of LAW, but
few recognize This Biblical Fact, Either Ignoring or Changing God's HOLY Word, ie:
Luk 7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans,
justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of
God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the
baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the
baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
Mar 16:16 He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every
one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ FOR the remission of sins, and
ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
--------------------------------------------------------
So which ingenious scholars have the authority to CHANGE/RE-word
ALL These verses, in order to "make THEM fit" Into Paul's God-Given
Dispensation Of PURE GRACE, With Salvation BY GRACE Through faith,
APART "from ALL works of the LAW {INCLUDING water baptism!}."
+
God's Revelation Of The MYSTERY, And The FINISHED Work of The CROSS,
Which was UNKNOWN under the LAW! Amen?
Mixing UP Law With GRACE has NEVER worked, AND NEVER will!
FurtherMoreOver, There IS ONLY ONE Baptism For us, Today, Under PURE
GRACE! AND IT IS Certainly NOT water!! Note: ADDING water = TWO baptismS,
thus blaspheming God's PURE And HOLY Word, Correct?
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
That is INCORRECT. There are indeed two baptism for Christians: (1) the baptism with the Holy Spirit followed by (2) believer's baptism by immersion in water.
And Acts 2:38 must always be interpreted in light of Acts 3:19. Repentance is for the remission of sins. Baptism is to identify fully with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection in order to walk in newness of life. The blasphemy would be to ignore the COMMANDMENT of Christ regarding water baptism. Peter certainly understood what that meant: ...Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:46-48)
The only way to properly interpret "in the name of the Lord" in view of Matthew 28:19 is that "the Lord" stands for the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The three Divine Witnesses that testify in Heaven (1 John 5:7).
So for you to promote one baptism is to violate Scripture and the commandment of Christ (which does not change during the Church age).
The word "...by " in 1 Peter 1 does not suggest instrumentality as supposed but simply means "up" or "over". The Ark floated over the waters or floods of judgment for forty days and Noah and his family were simply saved up the water within the ark.
Out of God's Context! There WERE indeed TWO baptismS, FOR ISRAEL!:
Prophecy/Law for ISRAEL:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The INDEED TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
.............................................................. {#'s 4, 9, & 10 in 12 baptisms ↓↓↓↓↓↓}
A) water, For remission of sins/{induction into Israeli "priesthood!"}:
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Law = God's Context of YESTERDAY!!
Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:
God's Context of TODAY!:
Mystery/GRACE! =
our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄
Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB! ◄◄◄)
Conclusion: God Says, Through Paul, Under GRACE {TODAY's Context}!:
"...One LORD, One faith, ONE BAPTISM..." (Ephesians 4:5 KJB!)
Well, which IS IT? water? WITH The Spirit? or:
"For 'BY' ONE Spirit are we all Baptized Into ONE Body, whether
we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; And Have
Been ALL Made To Drink Into ONE Spirit!" (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)
{God Gave us Math, so when And where is ONE = two???}
Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for
us Today," Under HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's
{Many Severely DIVIDED denominations?} Confusion into oblivion!?
-------------------------
FULL "studies" here:
Previously = 12 baptisms Rightly Divided From: Currently = ONE Baptism
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!
There is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
The scriptures you note do NOT speak against the command to be water baptized.
Ephesians 5:26 - Being cleansed by the washing of water by the word is seen in one's obedience to God's command, found in the word, to be water baptized in Jesus' name and to receive the Holy Ghost.
John 4:14 - Refers to the Holy Spirit.
John 7:37-39 - Says water in the verse refers to the Holy Spirit.
I believe what Jesus said in John 3:5. He said a man must be born of water and Spirit to enter the kingdom of God. He did not say man has to be born of the word and the Spirit, or of the Spirit and the Spirit.
To automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Plain ordinary H20 is not the only water mentioned in scripture. Jesus mentions living water in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and connects it with everlasting life. In John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If that sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. In Titus 3:5, we read washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which is a reference to 'spiritual washing' or 'purification of the soul' that is accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the word of God at the moment of salvation. That is in perfect harmony with born of water and the Spirit in John 3:5.
Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. In Titus 3:5, we read washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, which is a reference to 'spiritual washing' or 'purification of the soul' that is accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the word of God at the moment of salvation. That is in perfect harmony with born of water and the Spirit in John 3:5.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your right it does not. Everyone should do all that God commands. Not just water baptism.
What they DO is say the water we are washed with is not the waters of baptism.
I believe John 3 also. For God so loved the world he gave his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
No mention of water baptism. period.
“Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?”
John 3:1-10 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.1-9.ESV
Jesus said to Nicodemus “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things.” Would Jesus have expected the teacher of Israel to understand Christian water baptism. Maybe I just don’t understand, but I don’t believe he would have. I think about things like how he had to open the minds of the apostles to understand the scriptures in Luke 24.
Here is another passage that mentions being born again.
“since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God; for “All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower falls, but the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.”
1 Peter 1:23-25 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1pe.1.23-25.ESV
This seems to support the idea of the water being the word. However, there is also another possibility. Notice the idea of the perishable seed and the imperishable seed and think about this.
“But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is of one kind, and the glory of the earthly is of another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable. It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?””
1 Corinthians 15:35-55 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.15.35-55.ESV
Here in 1 Corinthians 15 we see an extended discussion about the natural body vs. the spiritual body. The point is also made that the natural body must come first and them the spiritual body. Also you see the idea that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Therefore one must be born again as 1 Peter 1 says. Notice also that John 3 discusses how we see or enter the kingdom of God. So these passages are discussing similar things.
Could born of water be referring to the natural body? We see the womb of a wife or a bride referred to as water in Song of Solomon 4 and Proverbs 5. These are definitely things that Nicodemus should have known as the teacher of Israel.
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• John 4:10 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.
The water about which Jesus spoke in that passage isn't for bathing, nor for
washing, nor for irrigation, neither for ceremonies and rituals. It is specifically
for drinking.
• John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.
• John 7:37-38 . . If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.
Whoever believes in me, as the scripture has said, streams of living water
will flow from within him.
I'm fully convinced in my own thinking that the water of John 3:5 is the
selfsame water as that spoken of by John 4:10, John 4:14, and John 7:37
38; which Jesus correlated with eternal life.
So we might paraphrase John 3:5 to say:
"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born
of eternal life and the Spirit."
In other words; people cannot have eternal life without they have the Spirit
too.
• John 6:63 . . It is the Spirit who gives life
So then:
• Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say: Come! And let him who hears
say: Come! Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him
take the free gift of the water of life.
_
• John 4:10 . . If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a
drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.
The water about which Jesus spoke in that passage isn't for bathing, nor for
washing, nor for irrigation, neither for ceremonies and rituals. It is specifically
for drinking.
• John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.
• John 7:37-38 . . If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.
Whoever believes in me, as the scripture has said, streams of living water
will flow from within him.
I'm fully convinced in my own thinking that the water of John 3:5 is the
selfsame water as that spoken of by John 4:10, John 4:14, and John 7:37
38; which Jesus correlated with eternal life.
So we might paraphrase John 3:5 to say:
"I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born
of eternal life and the Spirit."
In other words; people cannot have eternal life without they have the Spirit
too.
• John 6:63 . . It is the Spirit who gives life
So then:
• Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say: Come! And let him who hears
say: Come! Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him
take the free gift of the water of life.
_
Yea, I agree with the Spirit baptism places him into one fold in Christ because either Jew or Gentile receives one Spirit on the basis of their belief in Christ. On Ephesians 4:5, I got this from other views and commentaries which may refer to water baptism as an outward manifestation of the inward works of the Holy Spirit.
Here are some views in reference to Eph. 4:5
Popular New Testament Commentary says,
“one baptism,’ the external sign and seal of faith,’ by which, as a badge, the members of Christ are outwardly and visibly stamped with His name’ (Alford).
John Wesley says,
One outward baptism
The Pulpit Commentary
One baptism. One initiatory rite admitting into the visible Church—baptism in name of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, symbolic of the washing of regeneration, the one way of entering the Church invisible.
John Gill writes,
One baptism, there were divers baptisms under the law, but there is but one baptism under the Gospel; for John's and Christ's are the same: there are, besides, figurative or metaphorical ones, which are so in an improper sense, as the baptism of the Spirit, and the baptism of blood, or of sufferings; but there is but one baptism, literally and properly so called, which is water baptism; and which is to be administered in one and the same way, by immersion in water; and on one and the same subjects, believers in Christ; and in one and the same name, the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; and to be performed but once, when rightly administered.
David Guzick,
One baptism: Some think that because Paul says there is one baptism that the idea of the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a subsequent experience is invalid. But Paul only spoke here of the baptism by water which is the visible token of God’s common work in every believer, and thus a basis of unity. There aren’t separate baptisms for Jew and Gentile.
Matthew Henry
One baptism, by which we profess our faith, being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; and so the same sacramental covenant
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
(Jesus using birth as a physical example to help the lost Nicodemus who was spiritually ignorant and didnt understand spiritual things to explain something spiritual to him)
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
(Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly physical reasoning to question Jesus about being physically born twice)
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid and born of the Spirit/ physic birth which nicodemous understood = and when God makes His children new, the spiritual birth he does not understand)
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
(again further explaining the two births.... born of flesh = water born again = spirit)
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again
there is nothing here about baptism in water at all
that is your misunderstanding of scripture
So true and only those whosoever believes with the exclusion of water baptism are born of God. 1 john 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: ...
Many NT believers were Baptized into John's Baptism, a Baptism of Repentance, not the Baptism after Christ's death and resurrection. Even so, they were true believers already according to the Book of Acts.
As to your definition of the meaning of the word "passive", it is incorrect. "Passive Voice of a verb, has nothing to do with "... accepting or allowing", in the Greek languages. In the Koine Greek, (The language of the NT), the voice is defined in the following way: "The emphasis is upon the action and the one responsible for the action and not the subject of the action. Therefore, the one being acted upon is a "passive recipient" of the actor. They have no say so in the action. In John 3:3-10, this magnifies the Sovereignty of God, in particular, the Sovereignty of the Holy Spirit.
Even in the English language, you did not give a proper definition. Passive voice is defined as:
- 2.
GRAMMAR
denoting or relating to a voice of verbs in which the subject undergoes the action of the verb (e.g., they were killed as opposed to he killed them ).
You twist what i said. Scholars understanding of Greek and Hebrew has improved, not that the languages have changed. And you cannot escape the reality that English has changed dramatically since 1611. I don't say for the better, necessarily. Elizabethan English has an elegance that modern English lacks. But we are meant to be speaking to our generation, not living in the past. Lord Jesus spoke Aramaic, not KJV-ese, the language of the time, not something incomprehensible to all but a select few.